Bullet proof blankets....
when the obvious solution is strict gun control laws.
and the politicians bend down to the gun lobby.
when the obvious solution is strict gun control laws.
and the politicians bend down to the gun lobby.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
Back to the good old days of "Duck and Cover" apparently.
Hey, here's a fun fact. The vast majority of gun smuggling is from the US to Mexico.
Another fun fact. Most of the handguns are made in Europe.
Got a source for that?
What does the location of a factory have to do with weather or not people should have guns anyway? Those things are non-sequiturs. It would be like saying McDonalds is unhealthy because they don't pay their employees enough.
Lots of what gets argued on this topic is non-sequitious in nature. To be fair to barros, a lot of critics do chastise the US and its arms manufacturers for their part in the problem, conveniently ignoring, or perhaps simply ignorant of, the fact that the most popular hanguns in the world are mostly made in Austria.
I'm not sure anybody is chastizing (links?) the US arms manufacturers with the outrageous gun violence in the USA (who fecking cares where they're made), rather it is the aggressive promotion of gun sales by the right wing and NRA, and all the phony second amendment bollocks and "they're gonna take our guns" whining that real 'muricans love to blather about. Just like in the 60s when blacks were brandishing rifles and speaking of "any means necessary" to achieve equal rights, the NRA and real 'muricans couldn't move fast enough to get real gun control going. If minority gangs started talking up the second amendment and how they were going to "protect themselves" from government tyranny you would once again see how incredibly phony this right wing wankery with gun rights would crumble.
Mentioning fun facts about handgun foreign manufacturing is more simpleton right wing "gootcha points" that is a smoke screen. Let's face it, the gun fetish was created as a right wing dog whistle used by conservative right wing America to get idiots to vote against their economic interests, a la abortion, LGBT rights and scary dark people, and as we're witnessing, it's a very very irresponsible policy. No one cares so much about your fecking guns, rather the mental issues of the people getting them so easily. The wackjobs are no longer content in offing themselves, they're now taking loads of innocents with them, and that blood is on right wing hands.
Mentioning fun facts about handgun foreign manufacturing is more simpleton right wing "gootcha points" that is a smoke screen. Let's face it, the gun fetish was created as a right wing dog whistle used by conservative right wing America to get idiots to vote against their economic interests, a la abortion, LGBT rights and scary dark people, and as we're witnessing, it's a very very irresponsible policy. No one cares so much about your fecking guns, rather the mental issues of the people getting them so easily. The wackjobs are no longer content in offing themselves, they're now taking loads of innocents with them, and that blood is on right wing hands.
That would be a fair enough point if that's the argument he was responding to. But he wasn't.
I can't give you any links at the moment but read the comments for any Guardian stories about gun violence in America and you'll come across that sentiment often. Interestingly, American has some of the toughest restrictions on exports of firearms and related products going (much to the chagrin of Canadian gun owners, I might add). As for the paranoia about losing their firearms to the "gun grabbers", there aren't that many NRA members so I'm skeptical about their influence on the dramatic spike in firearms, accessories and ammunition sales under Obama (and Bill Clinton for that matter). They're out there pressing that message, for sure, but how many people do they really reach when their membership isn't reflective of the number of gun owners in the US? I may be wrong but I don't recall hearing the GOP telling anyone that "them gawd darned demicrats" are going to take their guns, it seems the democrats say enough about their position on gun control to take care of that themselves.
The US is deeply fragmented on so many issues that it seems impossible to do anything about any of them. This is the one where compromise from both sides will almost instantly achieve positive results. Make it illegal to leave a loaded handgun lying around in the open unattended; whether that's on a table, under your pillow or in a drawer...anywhere. If it's unattended, lock it away or put a trigger lock on it. It's a small step in the right direction that promotes personal responsibility for a dangerous item. I think everyone would be amazed at the outcome and from there they might be able to rationally discuss other ideas and/or compromises to make things safer than they are today. There are lots of other issues affecting the levels violence currently experienced in the US but curtailing unauthorized access to firearms should make sense to everyone. It will put an end to so many tragedies.
Am I missing something? This appears to be what he was responding to:
So barros appears to be adding to nimic's statement by qualifying that many of the smuggled guns originate from Europe.
What does where they're made have to do with what they were talking about? They were talking about Gangs and the Mexican border. Where the guns are made has zero effect on those gangs or the mexican border. They could be made in Timbuktu and it still wouldn't make a difference.
Gun manufacturers are obviously evil, they make tools for murder. But that's still irrelevant to what they were talking about.
Gun manufacturers are obviously evil, they make tools for murder. But that's still irrelevant to what they were talking about.
When speaking of smuggled items, the origin of said items is rather pertinent to the discussion don'tcha think?
Sometimes, sure. But in this case barros claimed people need guns because of these dangerous gangs, had it pointed out to him that weapons go to mexico more than the US through that border and his response was that the guns are made in Europe. It's absurd.
Fair enough but the flow of weaponry is that way because Mexico has some interesting controls on what firearms are legally available there. Common calibers like 9mm and .45ACP are not allowed from what I remember and these are the most popular with Mexican gangs, who do operate extensive and violent drug distribution networks in the US, not least because of the availability of ammunition. nimic's argument could be interpreted by some to imply that the guns originate exclusively from the US, which might go some way to explaining barros' comment. Both arguments are somewhat irrelevant, really.
He didn't respond to my request for a source, though.
Is this the argument we're still stuck on?
Can I be the source? Glocks are by far the most popular handgun in the US due to their incredible reliability and, for nefarious use, their usually small size. Although some are made in the US, the majority of Glocks are made in Austria and this is stamped on virtually every one. Their popularity is reinforced by the fact that most law enforcement agencies choose Glock over every other brand available. The US military; however, does not employ any Glock products in their arsenal.
Other major European arms companies like CZ, Sig Sauer and Beretta have substantial manufacturing operations in the US with only a few models available for sale there made in Europe.
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Okay, I see. I read that Glocks (and other "European" guns) are also manufactured in other countries now, including the US, but I'll take your word for it that they are still generally European-made. I guess it's some sort of brand issue?
I still don't think his point was any good, mind.
Yeah, the brand is known to be incredibly reliable as far as function goes, which is extremely important considering their intended use. This is reflected in their overwhelming popularity with law enforcement agencies, as previously indicated, and that trickles down to the civilian market, which happens to include gangs. Although I don't know for certain what types of guns are smuggled from the US to Mexico it is safe to say that there are probably a lot of Glocks in there, simply because they're likely the best selling pistols in America.
And yeah, the point is largely irrelevant, as I alluded to earlier, the flow of guns from the US to Mexico is likely due to Mexico's gun laws restricting particular calibers.
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You can't possibly believe this...
They literally do nothing but make it easier to kill people. There is zero moral justification for it.
I don't know about moral justifications, but there are plenty of practical ones.
I cant believe this but a young boy has been shot in Dublin tonight
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0613/623740-ballyfermot-shooting/
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0613/623740-ballyfermot-shooting/
shit its even headlining sky news
Gang land shooting gone wrong
Dublin is not a nice place anymore
Ballyfermot on sky headlines. Im officially depressed
Gang land shooting gone wrong
Dublin is not a nice place anymore
Ballyfermot on sky headlines. Im officially depressed
Yeah, seen thatshit its even headlining sky news
Gang land shooting gone wrong
Dublin is not a nice place anymore
Ballyfermot on sky headlines. Im officially depressed
. Must have been a gang-land shooting gone wrong. They can kill each other all they want for all I care, but children being caught in the cross fire is bloody horrific. I live literally around the corner from where Fat Deccy was shot outside the creche a few weeks back. My daughter is in another creche in the area, but when I heard the news in work I didn't know which one the shooting was outside. Nearly had a heart attack! The danger of stray pellets from the shot gun hitting children was fecking crazy! Bang on 9 o clock in the morning too when most would have been dropped off. Absolute scum of the earth the lot of them.All in all though, you can't really call Dublin a dangerous place. It's extremely rare for normal folk to get murdered by being shot. 99% of the killings are on drug dealers.
When they market guns to children I think you can comfortably refer to them as evil.
I think you're looking at this through the prism of your own values too much. If you were a firm believer that keeping and learning how to use guns is a necessary part of your lifestyle, you would naturally want to teach your children those same values, in which case having guns marketed towards children isn't really a stretch of the imagination.
guns are made to injure at the minimum. if used correctly, they kill.
There is nothing wrong with what he said.
No, I'd understand that marketing forbidden or restricted things to children is a bad idea all round. But then again, I'm not a selfish arsehole.
Fortunately people who think like Andrew are in the minority. They are slowly but surely being outvoted. We just need to be patient. They will not have a voice in the future.
We don't live in a world of moral absolutes: some times, injuring or killing another person might be necessary.
I don't think it has anything to do selfishness, but hey-ho.
If marketing to children was banned tomorrow you'd see a million NRA types out in the streets tomorrow.
They are selfish arseholes who put their supposed right above the good of society.
They are selfish arseholes who put their supposed right above the good of society.
you don't get it. We are talking of minimizing injuries and killings.
the NRA is merely a marketing organisation of the gun industry. It helps their cause when people/children die.
They give lip service of course....and ridiculous statistics.
Yes. they are evil.
They give lip service of course....and ridiculous statistics.
Yes. they are evil.
No, they just disagree with you about what the 'good of society' is.
I get it. I just don't think your argument means what you think it means.
No, they are clearly wrong about what they believe to be good for society. Any sane person would understand that.
Nazis had opinions too but they weren't all valid and worth considering.
Nazis had opinions too but they weren't all valid and worth considering.
Harming and killing others is immoral, regardless of how necessary.
you don't get it.
more guns on the streets means greater probability of injuries and death.
math.
Andrew places profit above all other things though, his moral compass is a wad of cash.