39% of the homicides in US were with a firearm and in Germany was 28%, I didn't know the Germans have that many guns or maybe they don't but is a big number which mess up a bit the gun control issue.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
I agree and attitudes are changed through educating not legislating.
I'm not sure why you persist with the do nothing/not trying argument I think I have made it quite clear I would try- just something else to what you are suggesting.
Education alone isn't going to work because the majority of situations where guns result in death (or crime) would not be prevented by any sort of education. People will do dumb and violent things and even thought we can do things to reduce the incidence of this it is a no brainer that removing guns will result in massively better outcomes. Do both and we get an even better outcome. Leave laws how they are and there will still be 11/12,000 people killed by guns every year.
Guns are designed to kill so they should not be part of normal life any more than grenade launchers.
Guns are designed to kill so they should not be part of normal life any more than grenade launchers.
That doesn't seem right. The rate of gun homicide in the US is over 60 times higher than in Germany. Although I suppose if the overall murder rate was also massively less in Germany it could be right. If it is right it is a dishonest use of statistics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
If you include all guns deaths (including suicide and accidents) then the pattern is very similar. The pattern is always very consistent if you present the data honestly. Greater gun ownership = greater death rate, not just gross number, rate.
That doesn't seem right. The rate of gun homicide in the US is over 60 times higher than in Germany. Although I suppose if the overall murder rate was also massively less in Germany it could be right. If it is right it is a dishonest use of statistics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
If you include all guns deaths (including suicide and accidents) then the pattern is very similar. The pattern is always very consistent if you present the data honestly. Greater gun ownership = greater death rate, not just gross number, rate.
I got the numbers from Nation Master and another numbers I got was:
Number of crimes by nation:
USA 11,877,218
UK 6,523,706
Ger 6,507,394
Frogs 3,771,850
Do you realize if you add all the people from UK, Germany and France and would be way less people than US (310 millions) but with more crime? We have more diversity than all the 3 nations above, we have terrorists from extinct central/south american armed groups who moved to US and they blended with a lot of gangs in LA for example. That most of the murders are between gangs but you can't say the same in Europe.
Wait, what? What do crime statistics have to do with a discussion about gun-related homicides?
More dead people is better than more people who've been assaulted...or something?
Some shit about more guns means less burglaries. The fact that 11,000 mostly innocent people have to die to keep the burglary rate down every year doesn't seem to matter though.
What the feck are you talking about, I'd much rather be dead than have my house burgled ffs.
I'm not even accepting that the burglary rate is affected significantly by gun ownership.
After yet another bus rape case in India, I saw a comment on a news website from I assume an Indian, asking why it was India hasn't looked at providing firearms to combat violent crimes. He went on to make the point that, had India decided to provide firearms for every female in the nation, and females only, this wouldn't happen as often or even at all. It was interesting in a what-the-feck-are-you-talking-about-you-nutter kind of why.
typical right wing shit...quoting red herring stats.
I just saw a story about burglars hitting one of those homes in NY that was listed in the newspaper story where they revealed every gun-owner's address. Apparently the thieves were looking to rob the guns.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...me-features-controversial-gun-permit-map.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...me-features-controversial-gun-permit-map.html
If these crime statistics were actually comparable do you really think that 60 million Brits committed 6 million crimes and 320 million yanks committed 11 million? I call bullshit.
guns offered a great deterrence thereThat's freaking hilarious.
http://m.complex.com/tech/2013/01/nra-new-shooting-app-for-kids
Basically the NRA just released a target practice/shooting app for kids 4 and up. Seems like a smart decision.
Basically the NRA just released a target practice/shooting app for kids 4 and up. Seems like a smart decision.
To be fair is that any different to duck hunt or big game hunting that we use to play as kids. Shit big game hunting had physical replica's of rifles. No defending the NRA as it's very poor timing, but an app will not encourage kiddies to go out and shoot things.
If you try to take away his guns, he's gonna start killing people.
A ringing endorsement for assault rifles if I ever heard one.
Well that's shortly before they start with school.
Better train the little feckers how to use a gun if they want to survive their education years.
I mean you never know, might be that a maniac with a gun is coming into their school one day and than those kids should better be ready to defend themselves.
Oh yeah and while you're at it buy your kid a m16 for his first school day, he will need it.
Germans have a fair few guns. Their laws are slightly more strict than Canada's.
I have to say the real question is why countries like Canada can have a high number of firearms per capita in circulation, almost comprable to the US, but we don't have the ridiculously high number of firearm related deaths.
The data looks pretty consistent.
Those graphs use offical data to deduce ownership rates I reckon.
Problem is that it is widely known that Canadian data based on the prohibited/restricted and non-restricted registries is way off the mark. While prohibited and restricted class firearm data is very accurate, it is widely accepted that only half of the existing non-restricted firearms ever made it onto the registry. 7 million non-restricted firearms were registered but estimates based on import documentation suggest another 7-14 million of this class of firearms are out there. You can dispute this if you like but being on the ground so to speak I can firmly attest that 7 million is a low figure. Plenty of people exercised a bit of civil disobedience and never registered thier guns. Bear in mind that guns last for at least a hundred years before they approach complete uselessness so it is unlikely that they were disposed of because they don't work anymore.
I think it is safe to say that there is at least one gun for every two people in Canada and the ratio is likely higher than that.
Problem is that it is widely known that Canadian data based on the prohibited/restricted and non-restricted registries is way off the mark. While prohibited and restricted class firearm data is very accurate, it is widely accepted that only half of the existing non-restricted firearms ever made it onto the registry. 7 million non-restricted firearms were registered but estimates based on import documentation suggest another 7-14 million of this class of firearms are out there. You can dispute this if you like but being on the ground so to speak I can firmly attest that 7 million is a low figure. Plenty of people exercised a bit of civil disobedience and never registered thier guns. Bear in mind that guns last for at least a hundred years before they approach complete uselessness so it is unlikely that they were disposed of because they don't work anymore.
I think it is safe to say that there is at least one gun for every two people in Canada and the ratio is likely higher than that.
The discussion is about gun control and the numbers shows more crime in Europe than in US and yes more murders in US than in Europe (comparing only the 3 countries with US), but keep in mind most of the murders are gang related and that's not the case in Europe.
In my opinion was the way the country was colonized with violence with the wild west and most of the south lawless for a long period of time, then we have big cities with huge racial problems but then with states like Vermont with few gun laws and low crime. Just Washington DC raises the murder per capita (15 per 100k). That's why is hard to try to compare US with another countries when the non-Hispanics whites had less than 3000 dead's in 2011 and they are almost 200 million.
I'll bet most gun nuts would rather lose their guns than do something to remove inner city poverty and improve education and living standards.
Obama speaking now on what he will be doing.
23 Executive Actions.
Universal background checks
Assault weapons ban and 10-round limit magazines.
23 Executive Actions.
Universal background checks
Assault weapons ban and 10-round limit magazines.
A good start, provided that they use a proper definition of an assault weapon and don't go around banning everything with a pistol grip or thumbhole stock.
Still, what will they do about existing magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds?
He tuk rrrr gaaannns!!
Real assault weapons cost thousands and thousands of dollars, most people and certainly those with murderous intent, can't justify acquiring them.
My favourite question is why has no one ever gone on a shooting spree with a .50 calibre sniper rifle?
The answer is that they weigh a minimum of 30lbs and cost about 10 grand. It is not an efficient choice, even though the media does their best to make people fear them irrationally*.
*There is plenty to fear from such a rifle but not many people have them or use them regularly so the likelihood of one being used in a mass shooting is incredibly low.
My favourite question is why has no one ever gone on a shooting spree with a .50 calibre sniper rifle?
The answer is that they weigh a minimum of 30lbs and cost about 10 grand. It is not an efficient choice, even though the media does their best to make people fear them irrationally*.
*There is plenty to fear from such a rifle but not many people have them or use them regularly so the likelihood of one being used in a mass shooting is incredibly low.
Apparently 900 people have died from guns since Sandy Hook!
Never quite understood the need for more than 10 rounds unless you were the person wanting to kill multiple people. I always figured 10 rounds should be enough for personal protection considering a) the likelihood of a shootout is virtually nil, and b) if it takes me more than a handful of shots to hit the target I'm probably going to die from return fire, or the target will have left the scene.
This guy on CNN is an idiot.
"Obama didn't address the real problem, he blamed it on guns when we've been calling for background checks for years"
- So are you in favour of his universal background checks then?
"No"
- Why not? A mentally unstable man can buy a gun without checks from a gunshow?
"Well that hasn't happened yet"
- Well why not stop it from happening?
"It hasn't happened. Show me when it's happened?"
How do these people become politicians?
"Obama didn't address the real problem, he blamed it on guns when we've been calling for background checks for years"
- So are you in favour of his universal background checks then?
"No"
- Why not? A mentally unstable man can buy a gun without checks from a gunshow?
"Well that hasn't happened yet"
- Well why not stop it from happening?
"It hasn't happened. Show me when it's happened?"
How do these people become politicians?
Because that is the level he is asked to argue at by both his peers and the general populace.
Can't ask anything too taxing Mockers, there are ratings to think about.
Courtesy of Allen West...
I anxiously await President Obama's gun control proposals. I must ask if those in his administration who promoted Operation Fast and Furious were consulted on any of these measures. The hypocrisy is truly laughable.
Furthermore, I wonder if the President considered inviting the mother and the two 9-year-old twins fro...m Walton County, Georgia who were saved by a gun from a criminal invasion? How about letters from our children who want spending control and debt reduction in order to preserve their future? Will they get to be political stage props?
I wish the President would review the entire Declaration of Independence and recognize the parallel of grievances Jefferson articulated against King George III and understand that Americans will stand up for the next generation!
I anxiously await President Obama's gun control proposals. I must ask if those in his administration who promoted Operation Fast and Furious were consulted on any of these measures. The hypocrisy is truly laughable.
Furthermore, I wonder if the President considered inviting the mother and the two 9-year-old twins fro...m Walton County, Georgia who were saved by a gun from a criminal invasion? How about letters from our children who want spending control and debt reduction in order to preserve their future? Will they get to be political stage props?
I wish the President would review the entire Declaration of Independence and recognize the parallel of grievances Jefferson articulated against King George III and understand that Americans will stand up for the next generation!
Allen West the ordinary citizen, disgraced soldier?