Gun control

[balaks]

Daddy Huckabee going out of his way yet again to out-stupid his own daughter and once again getting shot down in flames. However, he and the dumbasses who think like him are the reason why change is so hard. It's scary that these morons are the ones with the guns.

It is absolutely insane how these people think - the level of stupidity/insanity is off the charts.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

4-year-old boy shot, killed by sibling at Texas home, reports say

https://www.wftv.com/news/trending-...y-sibling-at-texas-home-reports-say/986724031

I've lost count of the number of times I've advocated for safe storage laws in the US in this thread. Keeping unsupervised guns unloaded and locked up does not infringe on the 2nd in any way, shape or form but sure as hell would reduce incidents like that one. It cuts down on the number of suicides by firearm, too.

 

[RedPed]

You must assume all of the people have a concealed gun but for example PA have more concealed licenses than Texas (over a million), so the chances for someone with a gun to be present when a shooter walks in a store are low. Most if not all the mass shootings are in a "gun free zone".
List of cases of people stopping a mass shooting:

Newnan, Georgia, August 13, 2018

This is an amazing story that was caught on video. An employee who wasn’t even scheduled to work that day, but was simply hanging around the bar outside in the parking lot, stopped an attack that the police say would have likely resulted in multiple deaths.

Colonial Heights, Tennessee, February 13, 2019
A shooting at a dentist office in Colonial Heights, Tennessee was stopped by Larry Seagroves, a concealed handgun permit holder. After the killer, Harry Weaver, fatally shot one person, Kelly Weaver, his wife, he turned his gun on other people in the office.

Birmingham, Alabama, October 27, 2018
A masked man entered a McDonald’s restaurant and immediately started firing his gun. A concealed handgun permit holder returned firing killing the attacker.

Louisville, Kentucky, Wednesday, October 24, 2018
The national media has picked up on this story because of the killer, Gregory Bush, is racist, but they are ignoring the fact that a white civilian with a concealed handgun permit stopped the attack. Both the people murdered at the Koger — Maurice Stallard, 69, and Vickie Jones, 67 — were black. Bush had apparently tried to do an attack at a black church before shooting blacks at the Kroger indicates he was trying to kill as many blacks as possible and that the number of blacks killed could have been much worse if it wasn’t for the concealed handgun permit holder.

Titusville, Florida, August 4, 2018
A shooting at a back to school event for children and their families had a shooting that was quickly stopped by a concealed handgun permit holder.

Tumwater, Washington, June 18, 2018
“He is a hero,” Adams said. “He took action. I really think more people could have been shot… he saved us all.”

A wild rampage at a Walmart in Tumwater, Washington was stopped when three concealed handgun permit holders confronted and killed the attacker. The attacker had carjacked a vehicle that he drove to the Walmart. Once there, the attacker stole ammunition and then went out of the store, continuing to shoot at people.

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Thursday, May 24, 2018
Two men who had handguns in their cars, Juan Carlos Nazario, 35, and Bryan Whittle, 39, stopped what likely would have been a mass shooting at Louie’s Grill & Bar in Oklahoma City.

San Antonio, Texas, December 7, 2017 (ABC 13 in San Antonio, Time Magazine)
This case is an exception to all the other cases shown here in that it received national coverage on Time magazine’s website. A man with a gun was about to start shooting a father’s children as they were walking out of a restroom when the father killed the attacker.

Rockledge, Florida, November 17, 2017 (Florida Today, WFTV.com in Orlando)
Two concealed handgun permit holders stopped an attack at Schlenker Automotive repair shop at 4:30 PM on the Friday after Thanksgiving. The attacker, Robert Bailey, was armed with a .45-caliber handgun and “multiple magazines” and killed one person and severely wounded another in the business’ parking lot. Bailey continued shooting inside the shop.

Clearlake Oaks, California, October 23, 2017 (FBI report on active shooter incidents for 2016-17)
From the FBI report on page 5. At the first target, the killer was forced to stop his attack because of police arriving at the scene. At the second target, a concealed handgun permit holder forced the attacker to break off his attack.

Antioch, Tennessee, September 24, 2017 (Chicago Tribune, Daily Caller) (the above picture shows a picture of Samson after he received treatment for his minor wound)
A 25-year-old shooter, Emanuel Kidega Samson, killed one person in the parking lot, entered the church, and started shooting. A 22-year-old usher, Robert Engle, tried to wrestle with the shooter, but Samson is a very large bodybuilder, and Engle realized that he was not strong enough to stop him. During the scuffle, Samson pistol wiped Engle causing him to bleed from his head. Samson also shot himself, causing very minor wounds to his chest and arm. Engle then ran to his car and got his permitted concealed handgun. The usher came back into the church and confronted the attacker, holding him there at gunpoint until police arrived. With one dead and seven wounded, the attack could have been much worse.

Arlington, Texas, May 3, 2017 (Dallas Morning News)
This attack was stopped before more than one person was killed. Yet, the police spokesman made it clear that the concealed handgun permit holder “prevented further loss of life” and that the killer was “shooting at the front door” at the customers who were fleeing the restaurant. The headline on the Dallas Morning News story was: “‘Hero’ stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say.” Emphasis added in quotes below

Townville Elementary School, September 28, 2016 (FBI report on active shooter incidents for 2016-17)

From the FBI report on page 5.
On September 28, 2016, at 1:45 p.m., Jesse Dewitt Osborne, 14, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting at the Townville Elementary School playground in Townville, South Carolina. Prior to theshooting, the shooter, a former student, killed his father at their home. Two people were killed, includingone student; three were wounded, one teacher and two students. A volunteer firefighter, who possessed a valid firearms permit, restrained the shooter until law enforcement officers arrived and apprehended him.

Lyman, South Carolina, June 30, 2016 (Fox Carolina)
Just a couple of weeks after the Orlando massacre, man, 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson, started shooting at others at another nightclub. Fortunately, unlike Florida, permitted concealed handguns were allowed in bars in South Carolina. Before he could shoot a fourth person, the permit holder was able to shoot back, wounding Thompson in the leg.

The list goes on and the reason you never heard about them is because the media wants bodies not heroes.

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/05/uber-driver-in-chicago-stops-mass-public-shooting/

Funny how you've dodged every other argument.

 

[Red Dreams]

I've lost count of the number of times I've advocated for safe storage laws in the US in this thread. Keeping unsupervised guns unloaded and locked up does not infringe on the 2nd in any way, shape or form but sure as hell would reduce incidents like that one. It cuts down on the number of suicides by firearm, too.

Gun Registration, Background checks and banning of Assault rifles will solve most of the problems in addition to what you say.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Gun Registration, Background checks and banning of Assault rifles will solve most of the problems in addition to what you say.

Having lived under a system of full registration (since revoked) and currently existing under a system of partial registration, I'm not a proponent of it. It's not super useful in solving or preventing crimes. Optically it's really easy to argue that it only exists to facilitate confiscation, which is a perspective you want to avoid in the US.

I think you have support for background checks now, just need the other party to win the presidency.

I wouldn't touch "assault" rifles because any whisper of a ban will just lead to a spike in sales and more scofflaw kind of behaviour. Ban legislation also tends to grandfather existing items so even mentioning it just puts more of them in people's hands. You can implement increased restrictions, such as needing to have a CCW permit to acquire one in may issue states and enhanced background checks in shall issue states. Furthermore, civilians generally do not need thirty round magazines so limit them to five or ten for rifles chambered in .223 or above (mind the .50 Beowulf's, though).

 

[RedPed]

[QUOTE="Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær, post: 24702638, member: 20518"
I wouldn't touch "assault" rifles because any whisper of a ban will just lead to a spike in sales and more scofflaw kind of behaviour. Ban legislation also tends to grandfather existing items so even mentioning it just puts more of them in people's hands. You can implement increased restrictions, such as needing to have a CCW permit to acquire one in may issue states and enhanced background checks in shall issue states. Furthermore, civilians generally do not need thirty round magazines so limit them to five or ten for rifles chambered in .223 or above (mind the .50 Beowulf's, though).[/QUOTE]

Can any rational American just please explain why anybody would need to own an AK-47 or AR-15?? I mean, please. Somebody just help me out.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Can any rational American just please explain why anybody would need to own an AK-47 or AR-15?? I mean, please. Somebody just help me out.

I'm not an American but the AR platform comes in a number of different calibres that are useful for hunting and pest control as well as target shooting, both recreational and competitive.

Their appeal comes from being a somewhat modern design (even if it's more than 50 years old) that is light, easy to wield, carry and customize.

What differentiates it from other semi-automatic rifles is magazine capacity. 30 round magazines are wholly unnecessary for civilian applications.

I can't speak to AK-47s really but they have some historical appeal are incredibly reliable. As well ,they are often inexpensive and ammunition is cheap and plentiful thanks to the demise of the Iron Curtain.

 

[Red Dreams]

Having lived under a system of full registration (since revoked) and currently existing under a system of partial registration, I'm not a proponent of it. It's not super useful in solving or preventing crimes. Optically it's really easy to argue that it only exists to facilitate confiscation, which is a perspective you want to avoid in the US.

I think you have support for background checks now, just need the other party to win the presidency.

I wouldn't touch "assault" rifles because any whisper of a ban will just lead to a spike in sales and more scofflaw kind of behaviour. Ban legislation also tends to grandfather existing items so even mentioning it just puts more of them in people's hands. You can implement increased restrictions, such as needing to have a CCW permit to acquire one in may issue states and enhanced background checks in shall issue states. Furthermore, civilians generally do not need thirty round magazines so limit them to five or ten for rifles chambered in .223 or above (mind the .50 Beowulf's, though).

I get what you are saying.
But the effect of all the millions of Assault rifles out there is essentially sleeper cells that have not been woken up yet.

They could strike anywhere.

Currently there is no accountability for the very poor gun control legislation.

But those that can be killed have no effective control.

The legitimacy of government itself has a right to be questioned.

 

[RedPed]

I'm not an American but the AR platform comes in a number of different calibres that are useful for hunting and pest control as well as target shooting, both recreational and competitive.

Their appeal comes from being a somewhat modern design (even if it's more than 50 years old) that is light, easy to wield, carry and customize.

What differentiates it from other semi-automatic rifles is magazine capacity. 30 round magazines are wholly unnecessary for civilian applications.

I can't speak to AK-47s really but they have some historical appeal are incredibly reliable. As well ,they are often inexpensive and ammunition is cheap and plentiful thanks to the demise of the Iron Curtain.

I refuse to believe that the majority of the American population participate in these activities commensurate to the number of guns in circulation.

 

[Red Dreams]

The NRA is a terrorist organization and politicians who accept money from them are terrorists.

Once we accept this fact, we can deal with them legally.

btw the 2nd Amendment was meant for State militias. It needs to be interpreted as such or repealed.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I refuse to believe that the majority of the American population participate in these activities commensurate to the number of guns in circulation.

Yeah, I can't speak to that.

 

[Grinner]

I'm not an American but the AR platform comes in a number of different calibres that are useful for hunting and pest control as well as target shooting, both recreational and competitive.

Their appeal comes from being a somewhat modern design (even if it's more than 50 years old) that is light, easy to wield, carry and customize.

What differentiates it from other semi-automatic rifles is magazine capacity. 30 round magazines are wholly unnecessary for civilian applications.

I can't speak to AK-47s really but they have some historical appeal are incredibly reliable. As well ,they are often inexpensive and ammunition is cheap and plentiful thanks to the demise of the Iron Curtain.

This is all bollocks. People buy them because it makes them look hard. That's how they are marketed.

 

[RedPed]

The NRA is a terrorist organization and politicians who accept money from them are terrorists.

Once we accept this fact, we can deal with them legally.

btw the 2nd Amendment was meant for State militias. It needs to be interpreted as such or repealed.

It's just been ingrained into the American psyche that it was meant to enable them to have some means of self-preservation full stop. They're never going to face up to the obvious fact that it is outdated legislation they're clinging on to.

 

[Red Dreams]

It's just been ingrained into the American psyche that it was meant to enable them to have some means of self-preservation full stop. They're never going to face up to the obvious fact that it is outdated legislation they're clinging on to.

It wont be easy of course.

But we must fight such mindsets.
The realistic alternative is to say to your child or grandchild.

"You take the risk of being killed by a gunman. But you must get an education"

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

This is all bollocks. People buy them because it makes them look hard. That's how they are marketed.

Being in Canada, I don't want to presume what the average American gun owner gets up to or their motivations for having firearms. RedPed asked for legitimate reasons for having one and I tried to further his understanding on the topic. Competitive shooting is the only reason we still have (severely restricted) access to rifles modeled on the AR platform in Canada.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

I am against guns, but if I lived in America I'd own one, and take it to a range regularly. No brainer.

 

[RedPed]

Being in Canada, I don't want to presume what the average American gun owner gets up to or their motivations for having firearms. RedPed asked for legitimate reasons for having one and I tried to further his understanding on the topic. Competitive shooting is the only reason we still have (severely restricted) access to rifles modeled on the AR platform in Canada.

Come on now. It's pretty obvious to the rest of the civilized world what their motivations are and what they get up to.

 

[RedPed]

It wont be easy of course.

But we must fight such mindsets.
The realistic alternative is to say to your child or grandchild.

"You take the risk of being killed by a gunman. But you must get an education"

Nah mate, Americans couldn't give a feck whether kids are killed are not. Sandy Hook would have been the wake up call in most societies but not America.

 

[Red Dreams]

Nah mate, Americans couldn't give a feck whether kids are killed are not. Sandy Hook would have been the wake up call in most societies but not America.

I would say almost all Americans do not want these type of weapons in the hands of ordinary people.

But what people want and what politicians do are two different things.

For example we would have Single Payer, which Americans want,by now if not for politicians.

 

[RedPed]

I would say almost all Americans do not want these type of weapons in the hands of ordinary people.

But what people want and what politicians do are two different things.

For example we would have Single Payer, which Americans want,by now if not for politicians.

Still not buying it. There's always an excuse. The Hong Kong people were not having any of the mainland's Extradition Bill so they've took to the streets. If Americans feel that strongly about it, they should mobilize against the government...but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Red Dreams]

Still not buying it. There's always an excuse. The Hong Kong people were not having any of the mainland's Extradition Bill so they've took to the streets. If Americans feel that strongly about it, they should mobilize against the government...but it ain't gonna happen.

what you say makes sense.
Its always' It is happening somewhere else'

But a more realistic scenario is most people are simply busy just working and trying to make ends meet.

 

[MrMarcello]

Can any rational American just please explain why anybody would need to own an AK-47 or AR-15?? I mean, please. Somebody just help me out.

Pick from the following:
Penis envy.
Macho man syndrome.
I was too chicken shit to join the military but bought a cool gun anyhow.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Come on now. It's pretty obvious to the rest of the civilized world what their motivations are and what they get up to.

I presume most of them are irrationally afraid (particularly of minorities) and buy guns for self defense. After acquiring them, they don't practice with them regularly and think it's a great idea to leave loaded ones hidden around the house for kids to find because they might need to get to one quickly.

I'm not sure if this aligns with the civilized world's opinion or not.

 

[marukomu]

I'd like a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, but guns are banned in Japan.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I'd like a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, but guns are banned in Japan.

Just what ya see buddy

 

[villain]

Wasn't sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but it's worth sharing:



This commercial is just as brilliant as it is horrific.

I was in tears at the end, but i'm definitely a cry baby

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Wasn't sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but it's worth sharing:



This commercial is just as brilliant as it is horrific.

I was in tears at the end, but i'm definitely a cry baby

Great stuff.

Too bad the gun nuts don't care and will be unphased by it.

 

[Dumbstar]

Funny how you've dodged every other argument.

But he's provided evidence and stats. It seems the system works. I think everyone in America should carry guns. I hope his children take a few to school as well because that's where most of the shootings happen. For some reason.

Barros do your children take concealed guns to school. Or your nephews/nieces? Imagine the lives they could one day save. If not then what's the point of the 2nd amendment? Get rid of it from the constitution.

Someone should campaign to make it illegal to leave home without a gun. Seriously.

 

[barros]

This is all bollocks. People buy them because it makes them look hard. That's how they are marketed.

People buy them because they are fun and cheap to shoot, I prefer to shoot my action level 30-30 but the ammo is too expensive.

 

[barros]

But he's provided evidence and stats. It seems the system works. I think everyone in America should carry guns. I hope his children take a few to school as well because that's where most of the shootings happen. For some reason.

Barros do your children take concealed guns to school. Or your nephews/nieces? Imagine the lives they could one day save. If not then what's the point of the 2nd amendment? Get rid of it from the constitution.

Someone should campaign to make it illegal to leave home without a gun. Seriously.

I live in New Jersey so no concealed gun and even if I had I wouldn’t carry the gun, maybe if I had to travel at night but not during the day. The stats I posted was for the people who said where are the people with guns anytime we have a mass shooting but what most people don’t know is how many mass shootings were stopped.

 

[Red Dreams]

I live in New Jersey so no concealed gun and even if I had I wouldn’t carry the gun, maybe if I had to travel at night but not during the day. The stats I posted was for the people who said where are the people with guns anytime we have a mass shooting but what most people don’t know is how many mass shootings were stopped.

a ridiculous post.

There would be no mass shootings even if we had proper background checks and no assault weapons for starters.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

I live in New Jersey so no concealed gun and even if I had I wouldn’t carry the gun, maybe if I had to travel at night but not during the day. The stats I posted was for the people who said where are the people with guns anytime we have a mass shooting but what most people don’t know is how many mass shootings were stopped.

How many mass shootings do you think there would be if guns were illegal?

 

[Sweet Square]

This can't be real right ?

 

[RedPed]

I live in New Jersey so no concealed gun and even if I had I wouldn’t carry the gun, maybe if I had to travel at night but not during the day. The stats I posted was for the people who said where are the people with guns anytime we have a mass shooting but what most people don’t know is how many mass shootings were stopped.

The fact that you are hailing how many shootings have been prevented as a good thing just makes it worse.

One thing I have learned from this thread is that Americans are deluded, brainwashed and very backward thinking and on this subject in particular can never be reasoned with.....and America is a shithole.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

The fact that you are hailing how many shootings have been prevented as a good thing just makes it worse.

One thing I have learned from this thread is that Americans are deluded, brainwashed and very backward thinking and on this subject in particular can never be reasoned with.....and America is a shithole.

Can you expand on that?
I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Can you expand on that?
I don't understand what you mean.

Far be it from me to speak for him, and @RedPed please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing he means people scared to send their kids to school for fear of getting shot, scared to get Ill incase it bankrupts them, having to take an Uber rather than an ambulance to hospital, being worked into the ground, lunatics freely roaming the streets with lethal weapons, being so scared of the rest of the world they spend the GDP of many countries on a military which they pretend is for defence but is in reality for the next invasion, being made to swear allegiance to a flag each morning, having the sort of corrupt racist police force usually seen in developing third world countries, and in top of all of that being arrogant enough to think it's still the greatest country on earth? I think that covers it?

 

[RedPed]

Far be it from me to speak for him, and @RedPed please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing he means people scared to send their kids to school for fear of getting shot, scared to get Ill incase it bankrupts them, having to take an Uber rather than an ambulance to hospital, being worked into the ground, lunatics freely roaming the streets with lethal weapons, being so scared of the rest of the world they spend the GDP of many countries on a military which they pretend is for defence but is in reality for the next invasion, being made to swear allegiance to a flag each morning, having the sort of corrupt racist police force usually seen in developing third world countries, and in top of all of that being arrogant enough to think it's still the greatest country on earth? I think that covers it?

I couldn't have put it better myself (applauds profusely). America is a disgusting place and there is really nothing good about it. The American flag/anthem crap literally disgusts me. Even their songs are so cringe. Their arrogance and the way they can't even understand people in England as if they are from another planet is also pathetic. Their sports which nobody outside of North America really care about. Their corrupt political administration. The systemic racism that permeates all aspects of their society from top to bottom. I could go on but yeah, you pretty much nailed it.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Far be it from me to speak for him, and @RedPed please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing he means people scared to send their kids to school for fear of getting shot, scared to get Ill incase it bankrupts them, having to take an Uber rather than an ambulance to hospital, being worked into the ground, lunatics freely roaming the streets with lethal weapons, being so scared of the rest of the world they spend the GDP of many countries on a military which they pretend is for defence but is in reality for the next invasion, being made to swear allegiance to a flag each morning, having the sort of corrupt racist police force usually seen in developing third world countries, and in top of all of that being arrogant enough to think it's still the greatest country on earth? I think that covers it?

I couldn't have put it better myself (applauds profusely). America is a disgusting place and there is really nothing good about it. The American flag/anthem crap literally disgusts me. Even their songs are so cringe. Their arrogance and the way they can't even understand people in England as if they are from another planet is also pathetic. Their sports which nobody outside of North America really care about. Their corrupt political administration. The systemic racism that permeates all aspects of their society from top to bottom. I could go on but yeah, you pretty much nailed it.

Gotcha. Can't argue with much of that tbh.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Don't get me wrong, on an individual level, most Americans are decent enough people, but their system, and whole societal structure is beyond fecked

 

[Redplane]

Wasn't sure where else to put this.

WTF is appropriate : https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/d7g72k/scarface/

(it wasn't a real play btw.. Was intended as a stunt/to shock folks)