Greta Thunberg

UnrelatedPsuedo said:
How have I suggested that I don’t respect the act of Protest. Disagree with me by all means, but don’t make things up.
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Probably the post where you said that she’s not doing anything, refer to what she’s doing as just ‘noise’, and insinuate whatever it is you do is doing more good and working towards an end result rather than her protests, even though she’s in the news weekly, piling constant pressure on politicians and big business, and inspiring millions of people her own age to also start pushing for change.

glowing endorsement of protest, indeed.
 
stepic said:
Probably the post where you said that she’s not doing anything, refer to what she’s doing as just ‘noise’, and insinuate whatever it is you do is doing more good and working towards an end result rather than her protests, even though she’s in the news weekly, piling constant pressure on politicians and big business, and inspiring millions of people her own age to also start pushing for change.

glowing endorsement of protest, indeed.
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There's also the fact that a whole youth movement has risen up because of her. It still remains to be seen whether it sticks and these kids carry it into adulthood, but it has, if nothing else, energised a lot of young people and made them aware of the issues our planet is facing.
 
Halftrack said:
So you believe nazis should be free to spread their message unopposed?

I think you'll find that punching nazis is cool and good.
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I think you should do some research into these guys, they're attacking police and are absolute scum of the earth and look they they crawled out of their mothers basements. Definitely not a good look for people that want to spread goodwill.
 
Shark said:
I think you should do some research into these guys, they're attacking police and are absolute scum of the earth and look they they crawled out of their mothers basements. Definitely not a good look for people that want to spread good will imo.
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Could you do us a favour and link us some articles that back up your claims there, I’m having trouble finding any.
 
Pexbo said:
Oh right, for balance have you got any sources that don’t have a far right bias? It seems kind of appropriate here, considering the topic. I mean, far right media aren’t going to be particularly objective when discussing an anti-fascist organisation are they?
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Here's some actual video footage of arrests made in Dublin, back in December. Tbh I find it weird that non extreme left wingers would actually get behind a group of thugs like this, isn't what they're doing more so on the lines of fascism?

 
Shark said:
Here's some actual video footage of arrests made in Dublin, back in December. Tbh I find it weird that non extreme left wingers would actually get behind a group of thugs like this, isn't what they're doing more so on the lines of fascism?

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I saw 2 people with a banner getting arrested. No evidence of women and children being attacked.

Of course if that is what happened of course few if any would support it but given your sources I'm yet to be convinced.

Plus what has this got to do with Greta Thunberg?
 
Shark said:
I think you should do some research into these guys, they're attacking police and are absolute scum of the earth and look they they crawled out of their mothers basements. Definitely not a good look for people that want to spread goodwill.
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Nazis, the Alt-Right, MRAs and a whole manner of shitty, hateful groups exist, but Antifa are the scum of the earth.

Sure thing, pal. Good to know you've got your priorities straight, at least.
 
Shark said:
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...er-far-left-antifa-protest-turns-into-a-riot/

This is an article from the US I read recently, but they're all around Europe also, including Ireland.
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It's an American article but it's referencing a protest in Leipzig. Apparently they were protesting against having their freedom of speech curtailed (their online magazine got banned).

Shark said:
Here's some actual video footage of arrests made in Dublin, back in December. Tbh I find it weird that non extreme left wingers would actually get behind a group of thugs like this, isn't what they're doing more so on the lines of fascism?

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Here's an article to go along with that: Three Arrests after anti-racist free speech protests in Dublin

The Irish Times said:
The arrests followed minor scuffles between the two protest groups which were then separated by a large force of gardaí.
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This is characterised by your video as "Antifa attacking women and children".
 
Wibble said:
I saw 2 people with a banner getting arrested. No evidence of women and children being attacked.

Of course if that is what happened of course few if any would support it but given your sources I'm yet to be convinced.

Plus what has this got to do with Greta Thunberg?
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I mentioned that she wears antifa T-shirts a few posts ago.
 
maniak said:
But I don't think those people you're thinking of that can be brought aboard are the same people that get angry at Greta and go online calling her names. I think those you're thinking of are indifferent to Greta, so she doesn't have a negative effect.
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Probably true.
 
Shark said:
Here's some actual video footage of arrests made in Dublin, back in December. Tbh I find it weird that non extreme left wingers would actually get behind a group of thugs like this, isn't what they're doing more so on the lines of fascism?

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The anti fascists are the real fascists. Brilliant analysis.
 
Halftrack said:
Nazis, the Alt-Right, MRAs and a whole manner of shitty, hateful groups exist, but Antifa are the scum of the earth.

Sure thing, pal. Good to know you've got your priorities straight, at least.
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They exist and they're shitty for their beliefs, but the use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims isnt exactly what I'd call the good guys either.
 
Shark said:
They exist and they're shitty for their beliefs, but the use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims isnt exactly what I'd call the good guys either.
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ANTIFA is essentially a label and not an organisation. Most are simply about standing up against fascism and particularly white supremacists in the US which is a good thing. I'm good with direct action as the rapid rise in the far right and fascism is very alarming and needs to be checked, but not with violence - obviously.
 
Shark said:
I mentioned that she wears antifa T-shirts a few posts ago.
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She appears to have been pictured wearing one anti-fascist T-shirt, once. Wearing a T-shirt that says "antifascist allstars" is not the height of horror you seem to think it is. It seems to indicate she opposes fascism. Good.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
It's an American article but it's referencing a protest in Leipzig. Apparently they were protesting against having their freedom of speech curtailed (their online magazine got banned).



Here's an article to go along with that: Three Arrests after anti-racist free speech protests in Dublin



This is characterised by your video as "Antifa attacking women and children".
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So as suspected "ANTIFA attacking women and children" was in fact two bloke being arrested for carrying a banner near a scuffle?
 
Smores said:
The only ones 'put off' climate change action by Greta are those daily mail types who moan about the BBC liberal bias and that Attenborough should stick to wildlife. They aren't put off by Greta at all, it's just she falls into the category of those they can get angry and shout about. They love it.
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That’s a HUGE number of people. That’s my point.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
She appears to have been pictured wearing one anti-fascist T-shirt, once. Wearing a T-shirt that says "antifascist allstars" is not the height of horror you seem to think it is. It seems to indicate she opposes fascism. Good.
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So not ANTIFA then?
 
HTG said:
Do you believe advertising doesn’t work?
What would you say about other activists like MLK for example, did they have an impact?
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Advertising does work. But it’s targeted. I don’t see that her message brings outsiders in. It may galvanise existing supporters. But there’s simply not enough of them.
 
Shark said:
They exist and they're shitty for their beliefs, but the use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims isnt exactly what I'd call the good guys either.
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So you actually believe Antifa is worse that hate groups?

Antifa, as a movement, is far from perfect. There are certainly violent individuals involved who only show up at protests to start shit. This is bad enough on its own, and gets even worse when they instigate, because it gives the whole movement a bad rap. The vast majority, however, employ peaceful means of protest, using banners and their voices to combat hatred and bigotry.

It's not a movement built on hatred and intolerance, but rather the idea that these things should be met with fierce resistance. They have a very long way to go before anyone can seriously claim they're anywhere near literal fecking hate groups on the "scum of the earth"-scale. I'd say that on the whole, they occupy the opposite end of the scale. Anyone thinking otherwise has been poisoned by the "both sides" centrist rhetoric.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Advertising does work. But it’s targeted. I don’t see that her message brings outsiders in. It may galvanise existing supporters. But there’s simply not enough of them.
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Do you realise that the exact same logic you’re using, was often used by those who criticised MLK? That’s not how these things work.
 
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Wibble said:
ANTIFA is essentially a label and not an organisation. Most are simply about standing up against fascism and particularly white supremacists in the US which is a good thing. I'm good with direct action as the rapid rise in the far right and fascism is very alarming and needs to be checked, but not with violence - obviously.
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Yes, that's my only point here, using violence surely goes completely against what they stand for. I'm in no way defending who they're going after, just the manor in which they do so.
 
HTG said:
Do you realise that the exact same logic your using, was often used by those who criticised MLK? That’s not how these things work.
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Are you drawing any kind of comparison point between MLK and Thunberg?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Nothing. Nothing at all. That was my original statement.
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Where do you draw the distinction between him doing ‘nothing at all’ and ‘more for humanity than Greta will do in her lifetime’ or whatever it was you said.

Are you referring to him being an inspiration to young cyclists or something?

And do you have any data to back up your claim that she’s appealing to the wrong demographic? You might be correct there.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Are you drawing any kind of comparison point between MLK and Thunberg?
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Comparable in that both were part of a great movement. The cause is not the issue here. MLK was seen as mostly divisive and generally negatively by huge parts of American society. The argument that their protests would be divisive, was made a thousand times. But those people didn’t understand that this was never about convincing anyone or getting a debate started. It was about equal rights. There is no compromising with such a topic.
And alike, there is no compromise when it comes to climate change. You either fight it, or you don’t. The time to convince anyone of the obvious truth is over. This is about putting pressure on those in charge and demanding the necessary actions may be taken.
 
Halftrack said:
So you actually believe Antifa is worse that hate groups?

Antifa, as a movement, is far from perfect. There are certainly violent individuals involved who only show up at protests to start shit. This is bad enough on its own, and gets even worse when they instigate, because it gives the whole movement a bad rap. The vast majority, however, employ peaceful means of protest, using banners and their voices to combat hatred and bigotry.

It's not a movement built on hatred and intolerance, but rather the idea that these things should be met with fierce resistance. They have a very long way to go before anyone can seriously claim they're anywhere near literal fecking hate groups on the "scum of the earth"-scale. I'd say that on the whole, they occupy the opposite end of the scale. Anyone thinking otherwise has been poisoned by the "both sides" centrist rhetoric.
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No I certainly don't and if the vast majority do that, that's fair enough. Their willingness to use violence marks them out from many other left wing activists but perhaps I overblew it.
 
Shark said:
No I certainly don't and if the vast majority do that, that's fair enough. Their willingness to use violence marks them out from many other left wing activists but perhaps I overblew it.
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The reason you're getting such a strong reaction to this is that equating Antifa with the violent right is a common tactic by... well, usually people who prefer the violent right ("both sides"). Since we're on the subject of MLK now, the same kinds of people might look at something like BLM protesting on a highway and say "Martin Luther King would never condone this". But as has been pointed out here already, MLK was viewed quite negatively by the American population, and part of the reason for that is that disruptive protesting was a big part of his strategy.

I'm not saying that's where you came from, just that so many do that it's easy to think "here we go again" when someone says something like that.

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.
 
elmo said:
That's basically modern society in a nutshell.

Attention is all you need now, feck all actual work.

Meanwhile the people actually doing proper work about it is ignored.

If she didn't piss Donald Trump off that much, I don't think people would give a shit about her.
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there are scientists who have been begging for attention on this issue. she has proven herself better than them at raising awareness.
 
The lack of action complaint is kind of valid but it needs context. Attenborough's and Sky's anti-plastics campaign was something tangible that had direct consumer effect. With Greta and Extinction Rebellion however it's a bit bigger picture and the aim is to get people to influence their elected officials which most would agree has happened to a limited extent.

You could campaign small perhaps encouraging vegetarian behaviours but it's a drop in the ocean compared to genuine government action. More importantly those who haven't already adapted their behaviour probably won't without government action because again it's futile. So 'pointless' campaigning is about as good as it gets and someone has to do it.
 
nimic said:
The reason you're getting such a strong reaction to this is that equating Antifa with the violent right is a common tactic by... well, usually people who prefer the violent right ("both sides"). Since we're on the subject of MLK now, the same kinds of people might look at something like BLM protesting on a highway and say "Martin Luther King would never condone this". But as has been pointed out here already, MLK was viewed quite negatively by the American population, and part of the reason for that is that disruptive protesting was a big part of his strategy.

I'm not saying that's where you came from, just that so many do that it's easy to think "here we go again" when someone says something like that.
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I completely understand that and that's not where I was coming from at all, just didn't think someone like Greta wouldn't want a bunch of riots wherever she goes, but apology's if it came off badly.
 
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