Surely that's the whole point of Greta Thunberg? Her message isn't "listen to my ideas", it's "listen to the scientists". I'm not sure she has ever pretended to be anything other than a voice for other peoples ideas.
Greta Thunberg
- Thread starter Samid
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Surely that's the whole point of Greta Thunberg? Her message isn't "listen to my ideas", it's "listen to the scientists". I'm not sure she has ever pretended to be anything other than a voice for other peoples ideas.
from what i've seen of he, she seems quite capable at handling the pressure on her thus far. she takes the piss out of Trump and those who attack her with aplomb.
Leaving aside the irony of choosing the divisive Taleb as an example...
Nah. It's a classic case of shooting the messenger because they can't stand the message. Doesn't matter who makes it, they'll be shot down on some irrelevance, because this is about power and vested interests, and not about facts. You can't argue with some people, you just have to wait for them to die so a more informed generation can take over.
When you keep saying you know it is, all I can say is the honest truth: we disagree significantly. I don't think likability dictates the success of an iconic figure. It influences it but is not essential. And I don't suggest it as a reason for why this isn't working, because I don't agree with the premise that it isn't working. I'm not even sure what that means.
When I said "a flawed character is an unsuitable leader on a moral cause is a thoroughly modern notion", I maybe should've clarified that I deem it to be false, temporary and mostly a part of Internet culture. I don't think the majority of people believe that a flawed character can't be a leader on a moral cause. It fuels the culture of attacking prominent figures on social media, and so it has a real impact and has some influence over Greta's broader appeal, but I don't think it's a pivotal factor. I expect many other iconic figures to be very flawed characters in the future.
About how you've portrayed her badly, yep I will back that up when I get a chance to come back to this conversation.
I am not sure what argument she, or anyone, can make to get it into the heads of crotchety old men that we are approx 8 years away from losing any chance of holding warming to 1.5 degrees. The argument doesn't really get any simpler
pretty much. my parents live in Australia, are in the process of living through the worst bushfires ever followed by mass flooding, and they still think climate change is BS. i mean that takes some proper fecked up delusion. they'd sooner rather believe some random shite fb post claiming records in the 1800s showed the climate was hotter than the present, even though records before 1910 in Australia aren't even used because of the unreliability of the data. basically, they are utterly impossible to talk to. and they're not the only ones like that of that generation. it's mind blowingly insane.
I appreciate your response and I can probably understand your views on Armstrong because you have actually met him.
As you may know I am a huge sports fan and detest cheating of any sort. But I do accept that he may have been a reason for some getting into cycling. Which is a good thing.
I am passionate about climate change because I have 4 young grandchildren.
Anyone who stands up against big business and who helps people understand the damage we are all doing to our only home grains my respect.
I am not referring to her as a person because I don't know her.
But I do respect her views and the fact that she has been a catylist for huge numbers of young people to take notice and actions against this terrible problem.
Some years ago Al Gore made a film called An Inconvenient Truth about CC.
It had some affect. But nothing like as much as Greta. That is my view.
But it is not about just crotchety old men.
What will make the change is consumer opinions and consumer choices.
And I believe that we are beginning to see the first signs of that.
Clearly shows shouting loudly has more impact than discussing reasonably. But the deniers are beyond reasoning anyway!
You are right about that. Elite sports will always seek out ways to exploit the rules and therapeutic useage exemptions gives them that opportunity.
Correct.
Hope you are right. I suspect we've lost 1.5 degrees though, we'll have to see how fast things change to hold at 2 degrees.
People sitting on their asses asking what Greta has done, while she is currently the face of a worldwide movement, that organises mass protests and demonstrations all over the world, is a special kind of comedy. Especially since she’s still a child.
Someone once said, you can't reason with people whose bottom line is that reason doesn't count.
That is going to be a real challenge as well but I am a firm believer in human inginuity.
Now is the time to really use our brains. We have no where else to go.
"You may think that, I can't possible comment...." I'm pleading the fifth on this one, got in trouble with the RedCafe law makers last time I used that word!
It'd be amusing if it weren't just a wee bit sad.
This is the problem. In one fell swoop;
- You’ve cast aside men over a certain age (50?)
- Somehow suggested that women aren’t the same or worse
You’ve failed before you’ve started. By design.
I comfortably do more direct line of sight good to the world than Greta Thunberg. Yes that’s by benefit of doing the job that I do, but I choose the job. I work towards good end results.
She’s not doing anything. She’s a face of a movement. That isn’t changing behaviours of the people that need to change.
Again, I fully support her points of principle. But the same people that lionise her are the ones that supported Occupy. It’s just noise.
and what were you doing at 17 exactly?
you clearly have no respect for the act of protest. Which is fine, I guess. But protesting IS something. We need as much noise as possible because the current generation is literally failing the future ones.
Sigh, it's a deliberate caricature. Point being, Nature doesn't care about the age or sex of the people it's about to wipe out.
Protest influences electorates which influences politicians and businesses. Her age is surely her key strength, it gives her argument (that her generation is the one that's having its future trashed) moral force. Hardly surprising she rubs a lot of (older) people up the wrong way - and that's a good thing, frankly.
You really believe that, do you?
They look so peaceful. Is everyone that disagrees with the left going to get beat up now?
Keep fighting for the Nazi’s, it’s a great look.
Weird hill to die on. But you do you.
Keep on silencing free speech with violent thuggery, great look.
So you believe nazis should be free to spread their message unopposed?
Keep on silencing free speech with violent thuggery, great look.
I think you'll find that punching nazis is cool and good.
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Only good Nazi is a dead nazi, or possibly a Nazi incarcerated in a lifetime purposebuilt jail. Also: Godwin's Law.
How have I suggested that I don’t respect the act of Protest. Disagree with me by all means, but don’t make things up.
That’s lazy. If you’re asking me to take this seriously, apply the same rules to yourself.
MOST people want to do good.
I do. She’s advertising. Consumed by people that are already buying, rejected by people already buying something else.
But I don't think those people you're thinking of that can be brought aboard are the same people that get angry at Greta and go online calling her names. I think those you're thinking of are indifferent to Greta, so she doesn't have a negative effect.
My argument is that if you get mad at a girl about an issue, you were never in a million years gonna get on board with that issue.
You mentioned a net negative.
I think the number of people who are driven away from the environmentalist movement because of Greta must be ridiculously small. Sure you have people who ract badly but my belief is that they're the kind of people who like to get mad at stuff for the sake of it, to vent or whatever.
For neutral people about the issue or people who never thought about it, I think Greta brings more on board than she drives away.
Anyway, these are just my personal beliefs based on the few people I know, so I guess my argument is that yes, she may drive a few away, but overall she brings a lot more to the cause.
Out of interest what is it you do?
Do you believe advertising doesn’t work?
What would you say about other activists like MLK for example, did they have an impact?
The only ones 'put off' climate change action by Greta are those daily mail types who moan about the BBC liberal bias and that Attenborough should stick to wildlife. They aren't put off by Greta at all, it's just she falls into the category of those they can get angry and shout about. They love it.
Yeah, I'm not buying the "she's not doing anything!" argument. This shouldn't be like the political environment where people actively hate the opposition just because.
I mean surely by pure her out there talking about it, for whatever reason, is better than nothing. People who actively push back against her are odd, but those who believe in climate change and do are even odder.
If people really get turned away from doing something about climate change because of Greta Thunberg:
