I would say a mixture of incompetence and corner cutting.
600 tower blocks, £10m* per tower we are looking at potentially £6bn in costs to get this fixed.
*how much they spent on Grenfell
Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
600 tower blocks, £10m* per tower we are looking at potentially £6bn in costs to get this fixed.
*how much they spent on Grenfell
The big issue that will blow this is up is that it is not breaking building regulations.
It is going against 'recommendations'.
Building regs have many sections, those written in green are additional recommendations, and that is where the 'not above 18m in height' bit is from (I did have a screenshot but have no access to it right now, there are some building professionals in the thread who could confirm it I think).
So it wasn't recommended, but not specifically banned by regulations.
Ah. Ok. Interesting. That's a very different scenario.
I suspect they also exhausted those cost save techniques too.
Fascinating - thank you.
It is.
The first question is why only a recommendation not part of the actual building regs springs to mind.
Whoever drew that up acknowledged the risk, but did not make it legally binding. That seems insane to me. I suspect this will uncover a huge amount of problems with building legislation itself, and the way it is created.
All this means is that responsibility moves up the chain from the developers (responsibity to abide by the regulations) and the council (responsibity to ensure that developers are working within regulations) to the government (responsibility to ensure that regulations are comprehensive and correct).
So it looks like blame can be pointed towards the government who repeatedly ignore recommendations from experts who warned them of the danger of an event like this. It doesn't exactly help their case when Cameron is on record describing regulations as an unnecessary burden on industries.
Being cynical, it also gives both sides room to point fingers at each other.
Despicable.
Now appears 600 cladded Towers total, not determined how many have the dodgy cladding.
Not sure how the ONS data works, but looks like Rachel is indeed the more common version. Interesting both have lost their top 100 status.
Turns out this cladding has gone up on a tower in Tottenham under Lammy's watch
I'm not surpised. The people who read that paper are worse than the people who write for it. It's like an ongoing 69 of hate.
Heard that on radio 4 this morning, wont be the councils fault in this instance though.
Hard to say at this point really. I have thought from the beginning that it will fall on the toes of the councils and government in terms of having too lax building regs, but the blame will not likely lie convincingly with any one individual.
Lammy is pushing hard for arrests and corporate manslaughter charges to be bought but unless there was some serious corruption going on between manufacturers, developers and council bods I'm not seeing it.
I agree there will be several parties who are responsible or have been a factor in the fire, but until the enquiry is over we cant say who yet. Was more that he has been vocal in whats happened, wanting justice and insinuating the local council have failed the people, yet a tower in his council has the same cladding.
I agree that its unlikely to be corruption, more likely errors and incompetence, with a sprinkling of cutting corners (time and/or money).
Latest development is that Camden council may take legal action against Rydon after the councils recent tests showed the contractors work was not done properly and not to the correct standard on 5 tower blocks.
Rydon need to be immediately banned from doing any work until the investigations are done.
Rydon need to be immediately banned from doing any work until the investigations are done.
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Rydon will almost certainly go bust, public to pick up the bill for fixing private sector mistakes
Deregulation for business, removing inconvenient "red tape" to maximize profit is at the heart of Tory policy. It was implicit in some of the replies to the warnings they received. This tragedy won't change their view on it sadly.
What i dont understand though is, wouldnt the council sign off the design and inspect it during and post installation? Also have rydon changed spec without notification or have they gone through a tech query process which will have been approved by the council. No idea how councils operate but at power stations they generate the spec for a contractor to bid against, where specs can't be met then an alternative would be proposed and has to be accepted by the station.
If rydon have provided wrong stuff under falsehood then feck them.
If rydon have provided wrong stuff under falsehood then feck them.
It happened at least 600 times, that's just considering tower blocks. The number of private and small buildings that don't comply the regs must be way over this. I've met landlords who have been renting properties for years without knowing that they need gas certificates each year.
I doubt anyone would use them again.
Well, judging by the reports, the project was signed off by the council and there have been several inspections during the works, so I believe the council was fully aware of all specs and design.
This is why I don't think you could have corporate liability without corruption. Councils are generally very strict with adherence to building regs. If you put up something not spec'd or that doesn't comply they make you take it down regardless. On a job of that scale I can't see how everything wasn't signed off at planning stage and we know that council officials checked 21 times (was it) during the renovation to ensure that regs were bring met.
a.k.a. they were cheapest.
No that is the number of tower blocks with any kind of cladding. Not all cladding is necesarily a hazard.
Perhaps there is some form of insurance that can be claimed against?
'Cost-effective'.
Covfefe?
Horrid jargon of our times.
Yes, my bad.
11 tower blocks with cladding at risk according to BBC.
I imagine that number will rise, but not to 600 hopefully!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...g-manslaughter-charges?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The police is considering manslaughter charges.
The police is considering manslaughter charges.
The council actual tried to sneak in waivers to the forms to get the 5k aid ffs. Whoever did that needs publicly flogging if it wasnt a genuine mistake
Good
Could just be a standard receipt with some ambiguous wording but really adds to this horrific story.
Read earlier that people are still reporting people as missing. If the death tole does ride into the hundreds, this has to go down as in incredible cock up
Apparently there are now 5 tower blocks all together being evacuated in camden, over 800 homes affected in total.
EDIT: BBC Link
EDIT: BBC Link