He took over in the middle of the seasons for that initial 8th place season which was a bit of a free hit, same as this for Potter I reckon. He showed progress and was given the time to build his own side which was what that first full season was for and the seasons after he's showing they were right to afford him that time.
Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job
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He took over in the middle of the seasons for that initial 8th place season which was a bit of a free hit, same as this for Potter I reckon. He showed progress and was given the time to build his own side which was what that first full season was for and the seasons after he's showing they were right to afford him that time.
Quite premature and fatalistic evaluation, don't you think? He hasn't done half a season yet, I'm sure he has some level of assurance from the owners, considering they installed an entire team of staff to support him.
The Moyes similarities get more accurate every week.
So Boeley = Fergie?
Do we think Arteta would have kept his job if he had not won the FA Cup?
I guess the big unknown here is how Boehly and Chelsea view this. Arsenal had been awful and were at a real low point. They hadn’t competed for trophies for a long time and expectations non existent. Zero Champions League football.
I feel this is quite different at Chelsea as despite not being in a title race for a while they have been successful recently and even played two cup finals last term under Tuchel. They have been top 4 ever presents.
I don’t foresee the new owners giving Potter the same time as Arteta, especially if there’s no clear improvements on the pitch.
I’m curious what the new ownership will see as a ‘red line’. We all know United’s has been waiting until CL football and top 4 was mathematically impossible. I’m certain there will be a trigger point for Chelsea despite wanting to give Potter time.
He could probably do with being at a more stable bigger team. The way this new Chelsea operate is bizarre.
I would imagine it'll be down to team morale rather than results. If he loses the confidence of the players then he's doomed.
He's obviously struggling badly but I do think he's been unlucky with the injuries and the fact he's not had a chance to bring anyone in.
I think we can all agree the Chelsea transfer business in the last few years has been absolutely horrific so he has to work with a lot of very expensive flops and shit players.
I think if Chelsea finish 5th or 6th and just miss out on top 4 he might be ok and make it to next season but obviously if they are 10th at the end of the season then it doesn't matter how much they talk about trusting him and it being a long term project, the pressure to sack him will be intense.
I think we can all agree the Chelsea transfer business in the last few years has been absolutely horrific so he has to work with a lot of very expensive flops and shit players.
I think if Chelsea finish 5th or 6th and just miss out on top 4 he might be ok and make it to next season but obviously if they are 10th at the end of the season then it doesn't matter how much they talk about trusting him and it being a long term project, the pressure to sack him will be intense.
He might as well go to the job centre now, then. Yesterday was blatant that they don’t believe in him.
Didn't see the match but that's the problem for managers taking the step up, especially those who've never won anything. I don't particularly rate Southgate but the way he got the England squad behind him was really impressive and quite outside what is usual.
Haven‘t seen yesterday but they still have (in theory) CL football as a platform to achieve sth./ get positive results. At least I‘d wait until what happens in case they got eliminated by Dortmund.
Yesterday Chelsea played like the last few weeks of Rangnick’s reign. It was appallingly rank.
City didn’t get out of first gear.
I like him. Boehly going to ruin him, chelsea and possibly many player's career.
That's good to hear tbf. When I saw the score I assumed this was the start of a stupidly long winning streak for City. One can only hope it leads to them being a bit complacent on Saturday.
i didn‘t question that. Morale should be on a low point right now so that can happen (doesn‘t necessarily mean he already lost the whole lockeroom though). Just watched the goals yesterday so after that loss before where they could tell themselves that it was a bit unlucky and going down early yesterday due to abrilliant strike by Mahrez (and a quick pen afterwards as well) I can see them being mostly frustrated.
all I‘m saying is things can turnaround in football quite quickly, let them win against BVB and make a deep run into the CL (not totally impossible) that could get Potter and his players back into some tune.
But alas, it doesn‘t look that way right now.
Will have to wait and see but it's obvious and known to everyone in football that Potter takes time with a side to get up to speed. I feel like Chelsea have reset as a club after the ownership switch and that they are going to take a while also to get up to speed. It won't get so bad that they are relegated or finish in the bottom half so I reckon they should ride it out. I really rate Potter.
I don’t disagree. I’m a fan of Potter if you look at my posts on him.
I do now feel he’s got a very big job on his hands and that the culture at the club is a total mess. I’m not sure he has the experience to deal with all of these problems especially with an owner who has no idea what he’s doing in terms of English Football.
Theres been so many changes in the squad and there’s still so much up in the air (Pulisic and Ziyech want out, Kante and Jorginho out of contract in summer, Silva and Azpilicueta likely to leave end of season, Lukaku and Aubamayang..)
It’s an endless list and not a good, stable environment to start trying to embed new signings, especially all these young ones Bohley is buying.
That's how I see it. The hysterics isn't surprising though. It's part and parcel of football now so it is what it is but the injury list is horrendous and I think some players are just going through the motions until they can leave in the summer, hence why if I was Potter I'd start benching some of these useless players, forget about trying to claw back top 4 contention and play the young players and new signings to get them PL experience for the rest of the season.
To be honest I don't know if managing Ajax prepares you better for this kind of job that Potter took. His Brighton was probably at least a match for Ajax.
Once Tuchel was gone, this Chelsea probably needed a manager that will inspire their shitty squad to get some results, not a long-term kind of appointment like Graham was supposed to be. Someone like Jose Mourinho in his better days.
Once Tuchel was gone, this Chelsea probably needed a manager that will inspire their shitty squad to get some results, not a long-term kind of appointment like Graham was supposed to be. Someone like Jose Mourinho in his better days.
Ajax at least is insofar a better prep since it's the AAA club in the Netherlands and I assume garners much more pressure, public interest in each and everything than Brighton where one could work rather in the background.
I disagree, that kind of strategy is what Chelsea have always followed. It might get you a trophy at the end of that season but it forces you into a cycle of hiring and firing managers every 18 months when the short term new manager bounce boost wears off. So I guess the strategy now is to endure some short term pain before hopefully enjoying long term gains. Not guaranteed to work out but when you hire a manager like Graham Potter that's effectively what you're saying you're trying to achieve.
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Imo Ajax has the pressure to win that makes the difference.
His hope of landing a big job ever again will be out of the window unless he turns it around soon and at least shows something there. He really did join at the worst time too.
I love to see Chelsea failing, but part of me does feel a bit bad for Potter and for the hopes of any British managers getting top roles again.
I love to see Chelsea failing, but part of me does feel a bit bad for Potter and for the hopes of any British managers getting top roles again.
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That's true, and quite a major difference between Ajax and Brighton but also he managed (and performed well) in the CL whereas Potter's first experience of CL football was this season with us.
I agree although I’d also say the transition to Potter has been bungled by Boehly which has far from helped him.
Hence why talks of sacking him feels nonsensical. He was put in a tough position from start by Boehly and then the injuries started to pile up and now we're literally playing teenagers who, to be fair to them, have shown way more than the likes of Auba, Koulibaly, Pulisic and Ziyech.
Typically I'd say you get a year before you'd expect to see improvement from the baseline. For Chelsea that is 4th with 74 points so Potter needs to look like he's on course for at least 75-80 points after the first quarter of next season. As you say though there are interim milestones to hit in the meantime. Imagine those are along the lines of maintaining respectability and ending the season in the top 6, with a good cup run helping to distract from flat performances in the league.
Don't buy into this really. Any top manager can build a good squad with the right investment, and they're spending money left and right. Also most clubs hope that it's a long term project when they hire a new manager, so this is nothing new. The problem is that it doesn't seem that the players are playing for him, and managers don't recover from that. If he faces a collapse like the one we've had under Ole he'll be sacked.
That seems very reasonable and balanced. Would agree with that.
I just wonder if that is how Todd will view it given his lack of knowledge and understanding in English football?
Did he not get two 8th place finishes and have Arsenal looking pretty shite? No way Chelsea afford Potter that luxury.
I just find Arteta - the manager who has achieved feck all - being used as a metric for how a manager needs time, fairly weird. I mean, people have been fawning over Arsenal this season but I honestly don't see it. If anything, I think it looks like them crashing and burning is only around the corner.
I was listening to a podcast recently and Keiron Dyer said that he'd spoken to a couple of Chelsea players and they'd said that Potter's training methods are far inferior to what they were doing under Tuchel.
Watching them yesterday they look like a team just going through the motions waiting for the manger to be sacked.
The question is, if losing that much under a manager has an impact on how the squad views him. No matter the reasons, there must be a very negative atmosphere in and around the club at the moment, and no doubt some of the player will aim their discontent at Potter. It will be a mighty task to bring them back from this, I think.
I get why managers get tempted by big offers from champions league clubs.. but I think he should have stayed at brighton a while longer. Chelsea are a poison chalice for managers, you can win the champions league against the odds and be sacked a season later. They have 0 loyalty to managers and now with these new owners it could be a shit show.
he was genuinely on to something good at brighton.
he was genuinely on to something good at brighton.
If the players have downed tools there is no point in keeping Potter on he isn’t turning the ship around
Wouldn't surprise me tbh. This notion that he is some innovator is total bull shit, and it's all because he's English. I imagine there's a tonne of foreign managers out there that use far better methods than Potter, at lesser clubs.
The work he done in Sweden was fantastic. But Swansea? I really don't think he done anything too great there. Brighton? Sure, he done well but was also booed by Brighton fans last season too, at one point. His overall win record in England isn't anything to write home about, and I would put Brighton's brilliant structure miles ahead, of anything Potter done there. That's being evidenced by De Zerbi's seamless transition.
Moyes, for example, has a better win % with West Ham than Potter at Brighton. I feel his football can look good at times, but lead to absolutely nothing. Just like Thomas Franck, I feel both clubs - Brentford and Brighton - are more responsible for their success, than the managers. I feel Potter is very overrated and will inevitably fail.
Im sure he has gotten assurances, but how far can the sink ship before the fans turn and the owners hands are forced? 3 wins in the last 11, 10th in the Prem. Chelsea have not scored a single goal in 6 of their last 8 matches.
Chelseas next 5 matches, minus Liverpool, are games they have to start winning if they have any hope of salvaging the season. I dont see a Champions League win materializing out of thin air this time around.
Reports coming out that Mendy and Potter have a bad relationship after being replaced by Kepa, with the former wanting to leave the club in January.
Teams that win are happy teams, but teams that struggle always drag new problems with them the worse the poor form continues.
Potter obviously gets a pass for the injuries, lack of preseason and no transfer windows that are his, yet, but the club will have to decide if they will absolve Potter of everything if the trend continues the next 10 matches.
Managing a big-six team is obviously an absolute dream of any manager, but generally you only get one chance to get it right. I think that Potter might have gambled away his own chance at greatness with a poor career choice.
He took over mid-season so I don't think it's fair to judge him in that transition one where they first finished 8th. Just as it isn't for Potter this season. They did look poor at times but it was a mix of his and other players in that first 1.5 seasons. It's only really since last season that it's been his own players and they've improved immensely.
If that really is the case and talk like that is coming out then I really do fear for him.
And I speak as a guy that totally backed patience for Arteta, and I'd do the same for Potter as long as he doesn't lose the majority of the dressing room.
Like many others have said though, Boehly's investment might be exciting for the fans getting all these new signings, but I don't think the sheer volume of them are helping Potter in any way.
This is likely true because Tuchel is known to be extremely tactically astute and innovative in training. He has been praised for that where ever he has been and it crossed my mind once Potter was appointed whether he can fully keep up in that aspect. What is also worrying is he doesn't seem to be ruthless and is too much of a nice guy. Teams are often the reflection of their manager and Chelsea look too soft and timid.
Looking from an outside, it is perfect shitstorm though. Not good enough team ---> awful recruitment ---> new board with set of decisions who added on the previous two problems ---> new and unproven manager who can't find his feet ---> shit atmosphere all around
So despite me rating Tuchel as a great coach, I very much doubt he would survive this season considering the circumstances (the cracks already started to appear). Very doubtful if Potter will survive at this point. They have to show some progress in the league and going past Dortmund in CL would help. If I have to make a guess, think these players will throw him under the bus.
Ziyech runs less in a club game than old man Messi does. Pulisic does a ton of work, gets nothing for it because he had no end product in pass or scoring, then is out again because his hamstrings are made of tinsel. Havertz … thinks he’s playing futsal, and then not only loses every 50/50 encounter, he pours for a few minutes after each one because he’s confused why other people are allowed to weigh more than 110 lbs.
You are more than welcome to any of them; would be a great help to us actually.
“We have the same problems, because we have the same players”
~ Thomas Tuchel speaking on Chelsea’s side. And then we lost most of the better players from THAT side.
People have short memories.