Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

SilentWitness said:
He took over mid-season so I don't think it's fair to judge him in that transition one where they first finished 8th. Just as it isn't for Potter this season. They did look poor at times but it was a mix of his and other players in that first 1.5 seasons. It's only really since last season that it's been his own players and they've improved immensely.
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There's still no way Potter keeps his job if he finishes outside top four this season, and again next season. I'm guessing he'll actually be sacked if they don't drastically improve this season. I get they have injuries, but there's literally zero positives from a footballing perspective so far. Some Chelsea fans are clutching at straws over a few little passages of play here-and-there.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I just don't see him as a top manager whatsoever.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Frankly, I'd take any of Pulisic, Ziyech or Havertz for United if they're available. All good players plying their trade in a team with no system or mentality. Pulisic's struggle particularly is reminiscent of Rashford's last year.
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No thanks.
 
Robbie Boy said:
There's still no way Potter keeps his job if he finishes outside top four this season, and again next season. I'm guessing he'll actually be sacked if they don't drastically improve this season. I get they have injuries, but there's literally zero positives from a footballing perspective so far. Some Chelsea fans are clutching at straws over a few little passages of play here-and-there.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I just don't see him as a top manager whatsoever.
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I mean we stormed to a pretty easy top of the group finish beating Milan home and away, after Tuchel lost the first game against Zagreb. So I'd say you are wrong.
 
WeePat said:
I mean we stormed to a pretty easy top of the group finish beating Milan home and away, after Tuchel lost the first game against Zagreb. So I'd say you are wrong.
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See what I mean? These really aren't some amazing positives. Ole best AC Milan ffs. Keep those straws clutching, you'll eventually see he's not a top level manager.
 
GoonerBear said:
If that really is the case and talk like that is coming out then I really do fear for him.
And I speak as a guy that totally backed patience for Arteta, and I'd do the same for Potter as long as he doesn't lose the majority of the dressing room.

Like many others have said though, Boehly's investment might be exciting for the fans getting all these new signings, but I don't think the sheer volume of them are helping Potter in any way.
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See, the thing is, Chelsea, in particular Chelsea, can’t afford to care about the dressing room.

We ALL know what really was going on with Mount. The “he got kicked in the back at practice”…. Really?

How about he’s trying to dictate who we sign and feels it’s his turn to take control of Chelsea, and when it looked like we could be signing Enzo and possibly threatening a Rice transfer, he decided to lay nearly every pass against NF 6 yards short and to an opponent while sulking across the field.

Now is the time for Cheksea to end this cycle. If they ALL want to go? Let em. I had issues with Barca catering to every one of Messi’s demands, I sure as hell wouldn’t kow tow to Mason Mount.

There is an interval struggle happening right now, and the front office and manager need to win it.
 
Robbie Boy said:
See what I mean? These really aren't some amazing positives. Ole best AC Milan ffs. Keep those straws clutching, you'll eventually see he's not a top level manager.
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You said literally zero positives. I gave you positives, and you pivoted to 'well they aren't amazing positives'.
 
WeePat said:
You said literally no positives. I gave you positives, and you pivoted to 'well they aren't amazing positives'.
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Ah fair enough. I don't really see much positivity with beating those two sides but each to their own. I also didn't find many positives when Ole was winning games either, as it was clear he was out of his depth.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Ah fair enough. I don't really see much positivity with beating those two sides but each to their own. I also didn't find many positives when Ole was winning games either, as it was clear he was out of his depth.
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I hear what you're saying. I just don't agree that we have enough information yet to say he's out of his depth, and if you're saying it, I don't think it's based on anything other your feelings about Potter in general. So you think he's always been overrated, it makes sense that you think he would be out of his depth at Chelsea. I, on the other hand, rated him very highly at Brighton and therefore think he needs more time.
 
WeePat said:
I hear what you're saying. I just don't agree that we have enough information yet to say he's out of his depth, and if you're saying it, I don't think it's based on anything other your feelings about Potter in general. So you think he's always been overrated, it makes sense that you think he would be out of his depth at Chelsea. I, on the other hand, rated him very highly at Brighton and therefore think he needs more time.
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See, I don't think he's 'always been overrated'. I feel he done fantastic in Sweden, ok at Swansea and pretty well at Brighton. However - just like Franck at Brentford - I would attribute the succes of both clubs on how they're run, as opposed to who's managing them. That's not to say both aren't talented managers, but I don't see either as top level managers.

I feel that sometimes a player, or a manager is good enough for a certain level, but not good enough for the elite level. There's no shame in that, as the majority - players and managers - will fail at the elite level. Potter, for me, has always looked pretty good, but I never saw anything that said 'elite level'. And as-per, yes the English media have definitely overrated him. I personally would have never even had him in any discussion to become a Manchester United manager.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but right now, I doubt he will. But hey, stranger things have happened.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Frankly, I'd take any of Pulisic, Ziyech or Havertz for United if they're available. All good players plying their trade in a team with no system or mentality. Pulisic's struggle particularly is reminiscent of Rashford's last year.
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Not a single one of them is better than what we already have, and what we already have isn't exactly world class.
 
Tuchel came in mid-season with no transfers and won the UCL, right?
 
Bluelion7 said:
We ALL know what really was going on with Mount. The “he got kicked in the back at practice”…. Really?

How about he’s trying to dictate who we sign and feels it’s his turn to take control of Chelsea, and when it looked like we could be signing Enzo and possibly threatening a Rice transfer, he decided to lay nearly every pass against NF 6 yards short and to an opponent while sulking across the field.
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Really? Mason fecking Mount? Damn, I thought it was bad in the dressing room, but not that bad.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Frankly, I'd take any of Pulisic, Ziyech or Havertz for United if they're available. All good players plying their trade in a team with no system or mentality. Pulisic's struggle particularly is reminiscent of Rashford's last year.
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Seriously? What have any of them ever shown in the PL that they are good enough?

Just because a player is struggling, doesn't mean its the same as another player. Rashford has shown over seasons before that that he was good, when has Pulisic ever done so?
 
Javi said:
Tuchel came in mid-season with no transfers and won the UCL, right?
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At least he had a core of good players that worked well and weren't injured - also him and Thiago had already a very good relationship so that must have helped a lot (especially since Thiago was/is unquestionable as per performances). How he talked and trained with the players nobody can say but safe to say he immediately reached a critical mass and they understood, wanted to and were able to follow.
 
Bluelion7 said:
See, the thing is, Chelsea, in particular Chelsea, can’t afford to care about the dressing room.

We ALL know what really was going on with Mount. The “he got kicked in the back at practice”…. Really?

How about he’s trying to dictate who we sign and feels it’s his turn to take control of Chelsea, and when it looked like we could be signing Enzo and possibly threatening a Rice transfer, he decided to lay nearly every pass against NF 6 yards short and to an opponent while sulking across the field.

Now is the time for Cheksea to end this cycle. If they ALL want to go? Let em. I had issues with Barca catering to every one of Messi’s demands, I sure as hell wouldn’t kow tow to Mason Mount.

There is an interval struggle happening right now, and the front office and manager need to win it.
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I totally agree with you mate. If there are dressing room issues, you basically have 2 choices, back the players and keep the manager, which is probably easiest hoping for a short term fix, or back the manager and rid the dressing room. Most clubs do part 1 these days, i backed arsenal to do part 2 with Arteta partly because we weren't achieving anything with those players anyway.

Now, you guys are on a big transition anyway, so in my opinion you continue to back the manager, and get rid of the moaners, complainers and underachievers. It looks like something you are going to do anyway, so i think it's only fair that the current manager is given a fair crack at seeing this through. Dressing rooms are a fragile thing, Chelsea more than most clubs know that over the years, so the best way to empower a manager over a dressing room is to back him when he's looking to make tough decisions.

However, my point about the transfers not helping, is that i think it would be hard for that manager to get command of a dressing room if it's constantly changing too much, and i feel that's what Boehly's doing too quickly. He's also in danger of making the squad too bloated, and managers dont like working with too bloated a squad, as that breeds discontentment.
 
romufc said:
Seriously? What have any of them ever shown in the PL that they are good enough?

Just because a player is struggling, doesn't mean its the same as another player. Rashford has shown over seasons before that that he was good, when has Pulisic ever done so?
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And to top things off, he's fecking shite also.
 
Jim Beam said:
Really? Mason fecking Mount? Damn, I thought it was bad in the dressing room, but not that bad.
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He’s playing a two man game with Declan Rice, and they are using each other as leverage, just in different ways.

You can’t blame him really. He grew up watching JT, Hazard and others having complete control over the coaching staff. Roman was a tier one jock sniffer.

Now Mason probably feels like it’s “his turn”.

All I know is the accounts of them making stipulations about each other are from many sources.

Than against NF … I’ve never seen a player be so obvious… he would kick the ball short and to the opposing team… again (he did this a lot that day), then he would stand still and turn to watch the other team on the break. Then he would turn towards the sidelines and shrug his shoulders with a smirk on his face.

He was yanked, and then the next game he’s out with some weird back issue no one knows anything about.

So … yeah.

Honestly, at this point my strategy would be to drop the hammer on ANYONE who doesn’t want to be here, willingly take the FFP penalty since we are t making Europe anyway, and spend to peoples eyes bleed.

They MUST get the foundation right.Starting off in the same old Ro an foot would defeat the entire purpose of all of this.
 
Am I reading right above that Mason Mount is trying to “run” Chelsea? Is there anything in that?
 
Judas said:
He could probably do with being at a more stable bigger team. The way this new Chelsea operate is bizarre.
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As far as I can see, Chelsea’s bizarre behaviour started quite a while before Boehly. In the past when they’ve made bad mistakes in recruitment they’ve tended to rectify them swiftly. Now they just compound their errors by making more of them.

If they wanted to follow Arsenal down the Total Reset route they should have thought about how to go about it from the start. I’m by no means convinced Potter can step up to success with a big club, but he’s been dealt a wretched hand.
 
Bluelion7 said:
He’s playing a two man game with Declan Rice, and they are using each other as leverage, just in different ways.

You can’t blame him really. He grew up watching JT, Hazard and others having complete control over the coaching staff. Roman was a tier one jock sniffer.

Now Mason probably feels like it’s “his turn”.

All I know is the accounts of them making stipulations about each other are from many sources.

Than against NF … I’ve never seen a player be so obvious… he would kick the ball short and to the opposing team… again (he did this a lot that day), then he would stand still and turn to watch the other team on the break. Then he would turn towards the sidelines and shrug his shoulders with a smirk on his face.

He was yanked, and then the next game he’s out with some weird back issue no one knows anything about.

So … yeah.

Honestly, at this point my strategy would be to drop the hammer on ANYONE who doesn’t want to be here, willingly take the FFP penalty since we are t making Europe anyway, and spend to peoples eyes bleed.

They MUST get the foundation right.Starting off in the same old Ro an foot would defeat the entire purpose of all of this.
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I mean, if half of that is true it is Potter mistake to play him again yesterday. Or ever again, quite simple.
 
GoonerBear said:
I totally agree with you mate. If there are dressing room issues, you basically have 2 choices, back the players and keep the manager, which is probably easiest hoping for a short term fix, or back the manager and rid the dressing room. Most clubs do part 1 these days, i backed arsenal to do part 2 with Arteta partly because we weren't achieving anything with those players anyway.

Now, you guys are on a big transition anyway, so in my opinion you continue to back the manager, and get rid of the moaners, complainers and underachievers. It looks like something you are going to do anyway, so i think it's only fair that the current manager is given a fair crack at seeing this through. Dressing rooms are a fragile thing, Chelsea more than most clubs know that over the years, so the best way to empower a manager over a dressing room is to back him when he's looking to make tough decisions.

However, my point about the transfers not helping, is that i think it would be hard for that manager to get command of a dressing room if it's constantly changing too much, and i feel that's what Boehly's doing too quickly. He's also in danger of making the squad too bloated, and managers dont like working with too bloated a squad, as that breeds discontentment.
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Valid point on having to corral that many new people.

I honestly think it’s easier though when they are younger, which is what makes players like Koulibaliy such a mistake.

If they go after 12 new signings and it’s a mix of 24 to 30 year olds, established pros, then it’s a much bigger issue.

I am a genuine admirer of the project at Arsenal, and was banging the drum for patience with Arteta as well. If someone can dig up the archive, I also said I thought Odegaard would be a top 5 PL player, which I think he’s on his way to.

The project has to be the most important thing. And Chelsea fan patience was always my biggest concern in that equation.
 
Rocksy said:
Am I reading right above that Mason Mount is trying to “run” Chelsea? Is there anything in that?
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I think what the poster is essentially saying is that player power is mental at Chelsea and always has been, which we kind of knew from the Terry days. The problem is you need a strong manager who's won things in that environment, not someone like Potter who they have absolutely no respect for.
 
crossy1686 said:
I think what the poster is essentially saying is that player power is mental at Chelsea and always has been, which we kind of knew from the Terry days. The problem is you need a strong manager who's won things in that environment, not someone like Potter who they have absolutely no respect for.
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With Terry and Lampard, it was somewhat understandable. But Mason fecking Mount? :lol:
 
crossy1686 said:
I think what the poster is essentially saying is that player power is mental at Chelsea and always has been, which we kind of knew from the Terry days. The problem is you need a strong manager who's won things in that environment, not someone like Potter who they have absolutely no respect for.
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You need a strong manager, yes., but it doesn't need to be someone with the CV of Ancelotti. Most important is that you need a strong board, who has belief in the manager and will back his decisions.
 
Revaulx said:
As far as I can see, Chelsea’s bizarre behaviour started quite a while before Boehly. In the past when they’ve made bad mistakes in recruitment they’ve tended to rectify them swiftly. Now they just compound their errors by making more of them.

If they wanted to follow Arsenal down the Total Reset route they should have thought about how to go about it from the start. I’m by no means convinced Potter can step up to success with a big club, but he’s been dealt a wretched hand.
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Well, they DID think about it from the start.

They didn’t have an established team, and decide it needed resetting. They JUST bought it. Replacing all the staff that had been let go due sanctions alone took massive amounts of work.

Then have been on 18 hour days since the Summer.

The front office staffe and our technical director just officially started 3 weeks ago…

BUT they had another issue: Tuchel was a CL winning manager who was a public figure guiding the team through the tough sanction period. They had a near obligation to at least let him try. And when they asked him if he was up to the challenge of leading the project and helping to run the transfer window he said “yes”… knowing what it would entail, and also knowing he had no intention of actually doing it.

The Clearlake plan has always been a 7 years for the first phase plan. Not just resetting the team: a system of satellite teams in Portugal and France, interconnected academy systems and data sharing, one of the most expensive scouting systems in the world, comlplete overhaul of the stadium.

Massive plan.
 
Chelsea's supporters all of a sudden change their view on Potter after two losses against Man City. As if they were ever going to win those games.

And they want Tuchel the fraud back. Tuchel is in love with Mason Mounty boy much like Southgate.

You do wonder who sanctioned these dog shit signings though, you could tell their summer window was dog shit.
 
Bluelion7 said:
See, the thing is, Chelsea, in particular Chelsea, can’t afford to care about the dressing room.

We ALL know what really was going on with Mount. The “he got kicked in the back at practice”…. Really?

How about he’s trying to dictate who we sign and feels it’s his turn to take control of Chelsea, and when it looked like we could be signing Enzo and possibly threatening a Rice transfer, he decided to lay nearly every pass against NF 6 yards short and to an opponent while sulking across the field.

Now is the time for Cheksea to end this cycle. If they ALL want to go? Let em. I had issues with Barca catering to every one of Messi’s demands, I sure as hell wouldn’t kow tow to Mason Mount.

There is an interval struggle happening right now, and the front office and manager need to win it.
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Do you have any evidence for this, or are we supposed to take this stuff you say at face value? A cursory google search, even a twitter search, brings up nothing.
 
Bluelion7 said:
Well, they DID think about it from the start.

They didn’t have an established team, and decide it needed resetting. They JUST bought it. Replacing all the staff that had been let go due sanctions alone took massive amounts of work.

Then have been on 18 hour days since the Summer.

The front office staffe and our technical director just officially started 3 weeks ago…

BUT they had another issue: Tuchel was a CL winning manager who was a public figure guiding the team through the tough sanction period. They had a near obligation to at least let him try. And when they asked him if he was up to the challenge of leading the project and helping to run the transfer window he said “yes”… knowing what it would entail, and also knowing he had no intention of actually doing it.

The Clearlake plan has always been a 7 years for the first phase plan. Not just resetting the team: a system of satellite teams in Portugal and France, interconnected academy systems and data sharing, one of the most expensive scouting systems in the world, comlplete overhaul of the stadium.

Massive plan.
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Well that's all fair enough. But they's still got this season to think about. And the next one. Don't you think that getting an experienced interim in to deal with a squad that's far away from being Potter-ready would have bought some time, as well as getting more out of the ragbag of signings brought in last summer at great expense?
 
Tom Cato said:
Im sure he has gotten assurances, but how far can the sink ship before the fans turn and the owners hands are forced? 3 wins in the last 11, 10th in the Prem. Chelsea have not scored a single goal in 6 of their last 8 matches.

Chelseas next 5 matches, minus Liverpool, are games they have to start winning if they have any hope of salvaging the season. I dont see a Champions League win materializing out of thin air this time around.

Reports coming out that Mendy and Potter have a bad relationship after being replaced by Kepa, with the former wanting to leave the club in January.

Teams that win are happy teams, but teams that struggle always drag new problems with them the worse the poor form continues.

Potter obviously gets a pass for the injuries, lack of preseason and no transfer windows that are his, yet, but the club will have to decide if they will absolve Potter of everything if the trend continues the next 10 matches.

Managing a big-six team is obviously an absolute dream of any manager, but generally you only get one chance to get it right. I think that Potter might have gambled away his own chance at greatness with a poor career choice.
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As you say, he now has a series of winnable games and if Chelsea end up accumulating close to maximum points, I'm sure they'll be close to top 4.

Ultimately, he could fail and be sacked but I don't think it was a bad decision to join Chelsea as during a crisis and transition he gets the biggest opportunity to shape things his way.

There will always be unhappy players, even at winning teams. I don't think Mendy's desire to play (or leave) as something too significant. He may as well be sold, as Chelsea also need to balance the books.
 
Amazing Santos said:
Chelsea's supporters all of a sudden change their view on Potter after two losses against Man City. As if they were ever going to win those games.

And they want Tuchel the fraud back. Tuchel is in love with Mason Mounty boy much like Southgate.

You do wonder who sanctioned these dog shit signings though, you could tell their summer window was dog shit.
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A lot of people talking a lot but they don’t speak for me. I never advocate for sacking any manager and I sure as hell don’t want Tuchel back. It’s a thank you for your service but 7 months of shit football and a terribly organized pre season leaving us far more unfit than any other team in the beginning. He definitely deserved to be fired.

The signings again. Part of a distinct lack of planning that begins with Tuchel and ends with the scouting department. We signed players available because we needed them. We weren’t pursuing an ‘Enzo’ because it would have led to long drawn out discussions and we needed half a squad. What you see is the closest available players to the ones that left and none of them have shown yet that they are good enough. Why would they be? They were for sale.

Now the scouting department is being ripped apart. It’s going to be a few years before everything is corrected. Until then I have nothing to say on the teams performances or a manager who hasn’t had much time with the “team”.
 
Rozay said:
I was very annoyed at the time that we failed to beat this sorry team (very nearly lost even) and that has only been confirmed to me as weeks went by. We played their shirt and their badge, but they are hopeless. When do we play them again please?
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One of those games where we basically camped in their half for the first 30 minutes and really should've killed the game off then and there. Then they made a few early subs and we totally lost momentum of the game. One of the more annoying dropped points this season, I agree.
 
DWelbz19 said:
One of those games where we basically camped in their half for the first 30 minutes and really should've killed the game off then and there. Then they made a few early subs and we totally lost momentum of the game. One of the more annoying dropped points this season, I agree.
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It’s all about perspective innit. I thought we made those changes and managed to wrestle a foothold in the game and it was a pretty even game for much of the remainder of the game. It was one of those games I thought Potter showed good instinct and in hand management, even if he was only correcting his own mistake.
 
WeePat said:
It’s all about perspective innit. I thought we made those changes and managed to wrestle a foothold in the game and it was a pretty even game for much of the remainder of the game. It was one of those games I thought Potter showed good instinct and in hand management, even if he was only correcting his own mistake.
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On top of that, despite their dominance for large parts of the game I never had any feeling they were going to score. Until we did, granted against run of play, but in the end it proved to be a boring game with only a couple of real chances.
 
Fulham away is their next game, and it's possibly the worst game they could play.

Its a derby so Fulham will be pumped up,but it's a game Chelsea would ordinarily be expected to win (unlike the City games). If they go behind, I can see heads dropping.
 
SilentWitness said:
He took over in the middle of the seasons for that initial 8th place season which was a bit of a free hit, same as this for Potter I reckon. He showed progress and was given the time to build his own side which was what that first full season was for and the seasons after he's showing they were right to afford him that time.
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If Potter finishes 8th this season and next he'll be out the door, without doubt. Arteta didn't really show much as a manager until last season, and even then they managed to throw away top 4.

I'm still a bit surprised he managed to ride out that first 18 months, to be honest. The football was poor and so were the results. Maybe he benefited from a lack of ambition at the club post Wenger, they spent a lot of money and there wasn't anything to show for it. Most top 6 clubs don't give managers anywhere near that amount of patience in this day and age.
 
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