Graeme Sourness | Retires from “punditry”

Well I guess I'm kinda vindicated about my opinions of him, he still has some daft opinions here and there but to call him some of the things we as a fanbase did was a bit over the line I think.
 
Irwin99 said:
I know as fans we (quite rightly) defend our own players but it always amazed me that people couldn't see what Souness was getting at with Pogba regardless of what their own personal opinions were of the player. Souness, like Roy Keane, comes from an era where a midfielder's most basic requirement was not to lose possession cheaply and to also set the standard for workrate and commitment. Also those types of midfielders were supposed to really do a bit of everything to a very good standard, even if they didn't quite reach the very top heights in some of those attributes.

It's pretty fecking obvious why he didn't rate Pogba and yet people refused to see it, preferring to make it seem like he was just bitter or something worse.
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And that's the way it should be honestly, there's still room for the flashy kind of player but every team could use a player like them two.
 
Chripper said:
Now, his views on Ukraine is what tickles me. He's passionate about Ukraine being independent (and existing) but he's fine with England running his own nation. Just seems weird.
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I’ve read (and heard) a lot of crazy stuff from Nats over the last decade but even by typical standards that is a rather twisted comparison. I was agreeing with almost everything you said until you dropped that clanger at the end!
 
Irwin99 said:
I know as fans we (quite rightly) defend our own players but it always amazed me that people couldn't see what Souness was getting at with Pogba regardless of what their own personal opinions were of the player. Souness, like Roy Keane, comes from an era where a midfielder's most basic requirement was not to lose possession cheaply and to also set the standard for workrate and commitment. Also those types of midfielders were supposed to really do a bit of everything to a very good standard, even if they didn't quite reach the very top heights in some of those attributes.

It's pretty fecking obvious why he didn't rate Pogba and yet people refused to see it, preferring to make it seem like he was just bitter or something worse.
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Firstly, whether you like him or not, he's qualified to have the opinions he has. He was, by all accounts (and like Keane) an absolutely top class player with the medals to prove it.

He's exactly right about Pogba. However much talent you have, the best players put the work in and he lacks that. His attitude is at best questionable and when things get hard he goes missing. Whether he could have been the player he thinks he is is a different, and more difficult question to answer, but I'm not surprised that he'll end up back in Italy.
 
Red the Bear said:
And that's the way it should be honestly, there's still room for the flashy kind of player but every team could use a player like them two.
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At the top level the days of being able to carry any player, however good, who doesn't work are long gone, especially in midfield.
 
Irwin99 said:
It's pretty fecking obvious why he didn't rate Pogba and yet people refused to see it, preferring to make it seem like he was just bitter or something worse.
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Well, yeah - I won't dispute that. It was always feckin' obvious why Souness didn't rate Pogba.

And it had nothing to do with his haircuts or whatnot - that has always been a cheap shot at Souness as far as I'm concerned.

However...

His default stance on a player like Pogba is utterly predictable - and not necessarily correct: he was moaning about his lack of "work rate" even when he was playing as a purely offensive midfielder, and he did seem - at times - obsessed with having a go at Pogba.

And...the latter (him having a go at Pogba) was clearly appreciated/encouraged by his employers. It became part of his "persona" as a pundit - to what extent he, himself, was aware of this is another matter, but it was - on the whole - artificial to a considerable degree: it was designed to create reactions.
 
Irwin99 said:
I know as fans we (quite rightly) defend our own players but it always amazed me that people couldn't see what Souness was getting at with Pogba regardless of what their own personal opinions were of the player. Souness, like Roy Keane, comes from an era where a midfielder's most basic requirement was not to lose possession cheaply and to also set the standard for workrate and commitment. Also those types of midfielders were supposed to really do a bit of everything to a very good standard, even if they didn't quite reach the very top heights in some of those attributes.

It's pretty fecking obvious why he didn't rate Pogba and yet people refused to see it, preferring to make it seem like he was just bitter or something worse.
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Rashford's getting the same indulgence now.

His latest PR trash coming from his team today is that Blind 'convinced him' to stay to work with Ten Hag.
Aren't we all so blessed. We get another season of him strolling around for 90mins and then putting up a tweet or Instagram post of some load of banalties written up on notes on his phone.

But "Oh SIR Marcus Rashford" etc.

Too many losers and punks have been indulged at this club for a while now.
 
RedRover said:
At the top level the days of being able to carry any player, however good, who doesn't work are long gone, especially in midfield.
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I still think there are exceptions, it certainly worked well in the national team for pogba and this one is a bit more tenuous but both modric and kroos seemed to have lost their legs but they still managed to perform.

Also pogba himself did very good in juve when pirlo and vidal bore most of the workrate.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, yeah - I won't dispute that. It was always feckin' obvious why Souness didn't rate Pogba.

And it had nothing to do with his haircuts or whatnot - that has always been a cheap shot at Souness as far as I'm concerned.

However...

His default stance on a player like Pogba is utterly predictable - and not necessarily correct: he was moaning about his lack of "work rate" even when he was playing as a purely offensive midfielder, and he did seem - at times - obsessed with having a go at Pogba.

And...the latter (him having a go at Pogba) was clearly appreciated/encouraged by his employers. It became part of his "persona" as a pundit - to what extent he, himself, was aware of this is another matter, but it was - on the whole - artificial to a considerable degree: it was designed to create reactions.
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Problem with Souness is that he criticised Paul for not doing things that players in his position aren’t supposed to do. I always remember he kept having a go at Paul for not running on after a pass to get at the back 4 when he was deployed as a deep playing midfielder. Paul not doing that wasn’t on Paul but how the manager set the team up.
Ray Houghton has a bad habit of doing that as well. They talk as if players have free range to go and do what they want on the pitch.
 
cyberman said:
I always remember he kept having a go at Paul for not running on after a pass to get at the back 4 when he was deployed as a deep playing midfielder. Paul not doing that wasn’t on Paul but how the manager set the team up.
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Yes - Souness would/will generally have a go at Pogba for not playing like his own idea of a CM. Regardless of what his actual role was.

Sometimes that would be right on the money (because Pogba - for United - frequently played like an actual CM, and he often displayed huge flaws in that role) - sometimes it wouldn't be on the money at all (because Pogba was playing a different sort of role - but Souness didn't see that, or didn't like that).
 
Red the Bear said:
I still think there are exceptions, it certainly worked well in the national team for pogba and this one is a bit more tenuous but both modric and kroos seemed to have lost their legs but they still managed to perform.

Also pogba himself did very good in juve when pirlo and vidal bore most of the workrate.
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I think International football, could, sometimes be the exception. It's less intense, in my opinion than the top level club game and often sides are not evenly matched.

Italy is also less intense in terms of the speed of play, and I think the game has changed since he was there anyway. The best sides in Europe generally press and you get less and less time on the ball.

I personally just don't think he's as good as people thought he was. He seems constantly to slow down the pace of the game when he gets the ball, when the best players, especially in the PL, look to speed it up.
 
RedRover said:
I think International football, could, sometimes be the exception. It's less intense, in my opinion than the top level club game and often sides are not evenly matched.

Italy is also less intense in terms of the speed of play, and I think the game has changed since he was there anyway. The best sides in Europe generally press and you get less and less time on the ball.

I personally just don't think he's as good as people thought he was. He seems constantly to slow down the pace of the game when he gets the ball, when the best players, especially in the PL, look to speed it up.
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I agree with the many points that you raise, it would routinely infuriate me to no end to see him not release the ball and dilly dally on it so much that ended up conceding possession.

Just trying to say that there could be exceptions if your truly world class(pogba seemed to keep it much more simple for his national team for example).
Messi demonstrated it in 2018 i reckon where he didn't really have much of a workrate but almost hot his team a treble .
 
Irwin99 said:
I know as fans we (quite rightly) defend our own players but it always amazed me that people couldn't see what Souness was getting at with Pogba regardless of what their own personal opinions were of the player. Souness, like Roy Keane, comes from an era where a midfielder's most basic requirement was not to lose possession cheaply and to also set the standard for workrate and commitment. Also those types of midfielders were supposed to really do a bit of everything to a very good standard, even if they didn't quite reach the very top heights in some of those attributes.

It's pretty fecking obvious why he didn't rate Pogba and yet people refused to see it, preferring to make it seem like he was just bitter or something worse.
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Chesterlestreet said:
Well, yeah - I won't dispute that. It was always feckin' obvious why Souness didn't rate Pogba.

And it had nothing to do with his haircuts or whatnot - that has always been a cheap shot at Souness as far as I'm concerned.

However...

His default stance on a player like Pogba is utterly predictable - and not necessarily correct: he was moaning about his lack of "work rate" even when he was playing as a purely offensive midfielder, and he did seem - at times - obsessed with having a go at Pogba.

And...the latter (him having a go at Pogba) was clearly appreciated/encouraged by his employers. It became part of his "persona" as a pundit - to what extent he, himself, was aware of this is another matter, but it was - on the whole - artificial to a considerable degree: it was designed to create reactions.
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cyberman said:
Problem with Souness is that he criticised Paul for not doing things that players in his position aren’t supposed to do. I always remember he kept having a go at Paul for not running on after a pass to get at the back 4 when he was deployed as a deep playing midfielder. Paul not doing that wasn’t on Paul but how the manager set the team up.
Ray Houghton has a bad habit of doing that as well. They talk as if players have free range to go and do what they want on the pitch.
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Because Pogba is black
 
Textbook revisionism on the Pogba front. We all know why he didn't like Pogba, but that still didn't explain his obsession with him.

What he said about Pogba was correct. However, he'd almost look for any opportunity to talk about him, many times where it wasn't relevant at all. There were times when Pogba was actually one of our better players on the day but he'd still make it a personal mission to somehow criticise him. It became a running joke even amongst his punditry colleagues.
 
The money at his age I can get being a talking point, but the separation of on the ball and off the ball he’s making in this scenario is an incorrect one. He doesn’t have an expansive passing range and he’s not going to dictate the game from deep, but if the RM Casemiro turns up you’re going to get someone who will facilitate almost any midfield in football. His ability to win the ball, negate counters and harass will absolutely improve United’s on the ball play. As well as the balance he brings for the midfield positionally, he’s also able to help the team offensively with his ball winning positioning and intensity, which will make a big difference.

You often need players like this to play your best football
 
We shouldn’t slag him off for that to be fair. If someone just sat on Talksport saying every single signing we make “will be dogshit” they’d have been right 95% of the time over the last 10 years.
 
His point was valid that on the ball we won't change with casimero and we have looked awful in possession so far with little threat going forward
 
Lee565 said:
His point was valid that on the ball we won't change with casimero and we have looked awful in possession so far with little threat going forward
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A bit of authority in DM helps us out there. Allows us to play Eriksen a bit further forward and knit the play together.
I mean, nobody has said he will solve every problem we have, hence why we are still after FDJ.
Edit have you ever seen Casemiro struggle under the press and give the ball away?
 
Casemiro isn't going to whipping balls into the box, executing intricate passes to our wingers, giving inch perfect through balls granted, but his off the ball activity and physicality will afford the likes of Bruno and Eriksen etc more time on the ball and therefore make us better on the ball as a team.

Souness hasn't really thought this one through has he? Then again I don't really value his opinion on the modern game.
 
He's obviously bitter Knighton's bid failed and he wasn't installed as manager back in the day. It could have been his statue outside OT.
 
predator said:
Casemiro isn't going to whipping balls into the box, executing intricate passes to our wingers, giving inch perfect through balls granted, but his off the ball activity and physicality will afford the likes of Bruno and Eriksen etc more time on the ball and therefore make us better on the ball as a team.

Souness hasn't really thought this one through has he? Then again I don't really value his opinion on the modern game.
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Casemiro is a very good defensive midfielder but he is not particularly good on the ball so he will need some good press resistant players around him for him to release the ball to. Bruno and Eriksen are both very good players but neither are particularly press resistant. Maybe Fred is the answer in there beside him I don't know as I haven't watched him enough to know if he is good at guarding and keeping the ball under pressure.
 
If we had of bought just FDY, Souness would have said Utd lack a genuine defensive midfielder and he'd of been right. He's hardly sharing top class secrets when discussing our mid. We know we need a mid who can dictate the game, we've been chasing one in FDY all summer. Where he should be critical is not of the purchase of Casemiro, but the board. From speculation to completion we had Casemiro deal completed in a week. If that's the case then why haven't we wrapped up a deal for FDY or whomever we addressed as a back up to him, if as suspected that move would be problematic.
 
balaks said:
Casemiro is a very good defensive midfielder but he is not particularly good on the ball so he will need some good press resistant players around him for him to release the ball to. Bruno and Eriksen are both very good players but neither are particularly press resistant. Maybe Fred is the answer in there beside him I don't know as I haven't watched him enough to know if he is good at guarding and keeping the ball under pressure.
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Fred is never the answer. Never. To Anything. Ever.
 
I stopped listening after "He is not a great player, he has played with a great players". Can't blame him though, slacking about United is what has kept him relevant these days.
 
We’re living in this guys head! This sounds like a man that’s scared of the signing we’ve just made. He can no longer criticise pogba on a weekly basis so now he’s turned his attention to who we’re signing! What the F has it got to do with him who we sign.
 
The one time Pogba shot back at Souness, Graeme’s response was “medals on the table pal”

seems the best response from Casemiro here
 
I remember him once calling Modric a five-a-side player so it's pretty funny to see him now saying Casemiro was being carried by great players. Maybe he just really rates Toni Kroos.
 
The man's a dinosaur, and he immediately seeks to undermine every good midfielder we bring in (especially if they're Black). He's an anachronism in the modern game. How can people suddenly forget the time he turned his back on Micah Richards for making a comparison between the perception of Harry Kane (when he downed tools in an attempt to go to City) compared to Pogba? He was also disrespectful to Alex Scott when she used the term "low block." He's a classic "You kids get off my lawn" type, with all that that entails.
 
On the other hand (and bizarrely), his comment about Casemiro playing alongside great players could be seen as a compliment to Fred, who Casemiro regularly plays alongside for Brazil.
 
Souness and Keane are the two heroes for the Sky Sports main demographic - 35 - 65 year olds who reminisce about the glory days in the 70s, 80s. and 90s.

Sky Sports were quick to help him with the PR after his awful comment last week. And that's because he is essential to their brand. Perhaps even more than Keane.
 
PeteManic said:
Souness and Keane are the two heroes for the Sky Sports main demographic - 35 - 65 year olds who reminisce about the glory days in the 70s, 80s. and 90s.

Sky Sports were quick to help him with the PR after his awful comment last week. And that's because he is essential to their brand. Perhaps even more than Keane.
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I do not like this demographic.
 
As much as I don't like his bias a lot of times, he is absolutely right. Casemiro is primarily a ball winner that has never had to carry the controlling or creative load in midfield. Now he has to be more than just a ball winner in a league that is so much faster and so much more physical, playing with significantly worse players than Modric, Kroos, Camavinga. This is why it is so crucial to bring in another central midfielder that can control tempo and can also match the energy and intensity of Casemiro off the ball. It would complement Casemiro's abilities and make him shine more.
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
The one time Pogba shot back at Souness, Graeme’s response was “medals on the table pal”

seems the best response from Casemiro here
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Sourness would probably still have more overall.

PeteManic said:
Souness and Keane are the two heroes for the Sky Sports main demographic - 35 - 65 year olds who reminisce about the glory days in the 70s, 80s. and 90s.

Sky Sports were quick to help him with the PR after his awful comment last week. And that's because he is essential to their brand. Perhaps even more than Keane.
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Man's got a broad appeal, hence all the plastic surgery to make it look like he's still one of the lads.
 
Vanrouge said:
The man's a dinosaur, and he immediately seeks to undermine every good midfielder we bring in (especially if they're Black). He's an anachronism in the modern game. How can people suddenly forget the time he turned his back on Micah Richards for making a comparison between the perception of Harry Kane (when he downed tools in an attempt to go to City) compared to Pogba? He was also disrespectful to Alex Scott when she used the term "low block." He's a classic "You kids get off my lawn" type, with all that that entails.
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Why does this keep getting brought up. The man didn't rate Pogba, get over it. It has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
I have heard Souness praising Kante to the heavens on numerous occasions. Isn't he black??

The fact is Pogba is one of the most underwhelming transfers in PL history and deserves all the criticism he gets.
 
What does Souness actually offer as a pundit? Genuine question.

Irregardless of his probable racism and sexism, he just seems completely out of touch and pointless. It’s really odd that Sky or whoever deems him worthy of a no doubt handsome wage.

There must be so many bright, talented young pundits out there, seems a shame to instead employ the likes of Souness.
 
GMoore23 said:
Why does this keep getting brought up. The man didn't rate Pogba, get over it. It has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
I have heard Souness praising Kante to the heavens on numerous occasions. Isn't he black??

The fact is Pogba is one of the most underwhelming transfers in PL history and deserves all the criticism he gets.
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I literally couldn't be less interested in arguing with someone who can't (or won't) see it.
 
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