Gonzalo Higuain

RedThaiDevils#7 said:
If Kaka needs no defending then one of Benzema, Raul or Higuain has to be dropped. Doubt they'd afford that.
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I meant he doesnt need people defending him (posters) as if he is not a great player just because i said Iniesta was better (which is true to anyone who has watched them both in recent years).

Will Pellegrini be the first manager to successfully drop Raul?
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I meant he doesnt need people defending him (posters) as if he is not a great player just because i said Iniesta was better (which is true to anyone who has watched them both in recent years).

Will Pellegrini be the first manager to successfully drop Raul?
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My bad, misunderstood.
Back to Kaka Vs iniesta.
Both great players, but in my honest opinion the Kaka that won the Ball'ondor is better than an iniesta now if compared to attacking MF. I think that Kaka is a more all Rounder sort of like the Ronaldo Vs Messi. Kaka has a better shot then him and scores more goals and to me was involved in the Milan attack more than Iniesta. I completely agree that Iniesta has had 2 better season than Kaka due to Kaka sustaining a couple of injuries.
Who will be better next season is just something to keep on track. Doubt Kaka will shine through a new RM squad as for me Iniesta should edge it next season due to Barca's dominance in formation and teamwork.
 
Comparing Kaka and Iniesta isn't clever because even if at times Iniesta sometimes covered for Henry on the wings, him and Kaka are totally different players.One is essentially a CM and the other an attacking midfielder
 
kouroux said:
Comparing Kaka and Iniesta isn't clever because even if at times Iniesta sometimes covered for Henry on the wings, him and Kaka are totally different players.One is essentially a CM and the other an attacking midfielder
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which be both stated that we are comparing them when both are applied in the same attacking midfield position.
 
They rarely do so.Since Sheva left AC Milan, Kaka has almost always played as a second striker with a lot of freedom whereas Iniesta's roles are different
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I just think if you put them both into a role in the team, a creative role where running with the ball and passing it/creating chances is their job then Iniesta is better...
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Kaka every time for me, anyway alot of question will be answered this season. Those attributes you listed is what Kaka is known for, bar Messi he is the best in world football at it.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I just think if you put them both into a role in the team, a creative role where running with the ball and passing it/creating chances is their job then Iniesta is better...
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Kaka is certainly the more productive player. Iniesta is better at helping to control posession of the ball. Until the last few months of last season he wasnt doing too much with it.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
If he signed for us instead of Chelsea back then, would you've been saying this ?
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Probably not, because he wouldnt survive at this club being as selfish and unproductive as he is at the same time. So either he'd be a different player or he'd be at a different club.
 
Ekeke said:
Probably not, because he wouldnt survive at this club being as selfish and unproductive as he is at the same time. So either he'd be a different player or he'd be at a different club.
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Ummm, I do think he's unselfish at times but I dont' agree bout him being unproductive. Yes, he's had the injuries but certainly when he plays he does tend to contribute to the team. I doubt he'd be unselfish if SAF had coached him too.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Ummm, I do think he's unselfish at times but I dont' agree bout him being unproductive. Yes, he's had the injuries but certainly when he plays he does tend to contribute to the team. I doubt he'd be unselfish if SAF had coached him too.
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He wasnt even in the top 10 most productive wingers in la liga last season. He's entirely unproductive especially given that 90% of the time, given the ball, all he has on his mind is scoring a goal himself.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
How was he not productive and then again being on the starting 11 for the best team in Laliga last season ?
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Barcelona?

Messi, Henry, Mata, Higuain, Bakero, Navas and Pedro Leon were all more productive players. I believe Robben was actually 8th, so not quite out of the top 10. But still mightily unimpressive for a player who played 28 times for the team who finished a comfortable second in the table. He also lost his place in the team as the manager felt the team functioned better without a greedy player like him.
 
Ekeke said:
Barcelona?

Messi, Henry, Mata, Higuain, Bakero, Navas and Pedro Leon were all more productive players. I believe Robben was actually 8th, so not quite out of the top 10. But still mightily unimpressive for a player who played 28 times for the team who finished a comfortable second in the table. He also lost his place in the team as the manager felt the team functioned better without a greedy player like him.
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No, I mean the Laliga best player of the season 08/09 team.
How on earth was he there if he wasn't productive. Goalwise maybe he wasn't. But maybe in other aspects of his game earned him that position so he couldn't have been as unproductive as you claim.
 
Robben is too selfish and not quite the player he was 4/5 years ago. But you can't just judge him on goals and assists. It's a crude measure and not a perfect reflection of true performance. His wing-play is still dangerous and direct and his ability to carry the ball forward and get behind full-backs remains a real asset.
 
Ekeke said:
Kaka is certainly the more productive player. Iniesta is better at helping to control posession of the ball. Until the last few months of last season he wasnt doing too much with it.
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You just look at goals and assists, there's plenty of times Iniesta has threaded a through ball only for the forward to either miss or square it to a team mate and the "assist" wouldn't be recorded. You check the assist stat and say he hasn't been productive which is bollocks imo.
 
Ekeke said:
Kaka is certainly the more productive player. Iniesta is better at helping to control posession of the ball. Until the last few months of last season he wasnt doing too much with it.
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Bollocks.

Absolute bollocks.
 
Ekeke Iniesta was amazing all season, it was only when he started scoring more people started noticing more what a brilliant player he is, which is only natural of course. For me he has played like this for years.
 
Ekeke said:
Kaka is certainly the more productive player. Iniesta is better at helping to control posession of the ball. Until the last few months of last season he wasnt doing too much with it.
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Many of you would cite that goal against Chelsea, opening it up against Real Madrid or creating the goal against United in the finals but Iniesta didnt do much in the last three months although he had his fair share of moments, but was even better before March.

Overall only Messi and Xavi were better than him last season and as a footballer he has eclipsed Kaka long back.

Throught out the last couple of seasons Kaka has been nothing more than average definitely not amongst four or five best players in the Serie A and nowhere worth the money paid by Real Madrid.
 
vijay said:
Many of you would cite that goal against Chelsea, opening it up against Real Madrid or creating the goal against United in the finals but Iniesta didnt do much in the last three months although he had his fair share of moments, but was even better before March.

Overall only Messi and Xavi were better than him last season and as a footballer he has eclipsed Kaka long back.

Throught out the last couple of seasons Kaka has been nothing more than average definitely not amongst four or five best players in the Serie A and nowhere worth the money paid by Real Madrid.
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Well you have to take into account that Kaka has had a few injuries over the years and he also has been playing in a Milan team which has been in heavy decline. All their key players, Gattusto, Seadorf and Pirlo are getting worse every year and only he and Pato were the ones on the same wavelength.

Even with all this Kaka has maintained his quality in big games over the last few years and has been a key reason why Brazil are looking like world beaters once again. Iniesta is an amazing footballer but Kaka is the better player in my opinion. He will prove that this season.
 
vijay said:
Many of you would cite that goal against Chelsea, opening it up against Real Madrid or creating the goal against United in the finals but Iniesta didnt do much in the last three months although he had his fair share of moments, but was even better before March.

Overall only Messi and Xavi were better than him last season and as a footballer he has eclipsed Kaka long back.

Throught out the last couple of seasons Kaka has been nothing more than average definitely not amongst four or five best players in the Serie A and nowhere worth the money paid by Real Madrid.
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Incorrect. Iniesta came into his own during the final part of the season, including his goal against Chelsea. Before the last part of the season, he'd set up and scored few goals for a player of his supreme quality.

He was doing some nice work in central areas of midfield and helped his team control the vast majority of the ball but he wasnt very productive at all.

In the last 10 matches he played last season he scored 3 goals. He'd managed 2 goals all season up until then. Until Feb he'd only managed 3 assists either.

Boss said:
Ekeke Iniesta was amazing all season, it was only when he started scoring more people started noticing more what a brilliant player he is, which is only natural of course. For me he has played like this for years.
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He was doing brilliant pieces of play in central areas but was nowhere near as productive as he should have been. He's a player you should be able to count on by now for goals for himself and setting up goals for others. Until the last 10 games of last season Barcelona were unable to count on him for that. Luckily they didnt need to as other players around him were so productive.
 
You don't measure midfielders by productivity.

That's ridiculous.
 
Brwned said:
You don't measure midfielders by productivity.

That's ridiculous.
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In a 3 its an important part of an attacking midfielder's play.

And all I said is that he wasnt productive until the last section of the season. So yes you do measure them by productivity when the debate is about productivity. What else would you measure that on?
 
It's not really.

No, you said 'Until the last few months of last season he wasnt doing too much with it.' which is bollocks.

It wasn't a discussion about how productive Iniesta is it's about how good he was.

And what you said about him doing very little with the ball was evidently rubbish.
 
Ekeke said:
Incorrect. Iniesta came into his own during the final part of the season, including his goal against Chelsea. Before the last part of the season, he'd set up and scored few goals for a player of his supreme quality.

He was doing some nice work in central areas of midfield and helped his team control the vast majority of the ball but he wasnt very productive at all.

In the last 10 matches he played last season he scored 3 goals. He'd managed 2 goals all season up until then. Until Feb he'd only managed 3 assists either.
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Last season Iniesta played in the inside left position of the midfield behind Henry and Messi, not really in a forward position as he was played a season before that. Secondly you're basing you're writing your assumptions on stats, he was brilliant than what the stats suggested. Iniesta best games towards the end of the season were against Real Madrid and CL finals. When Real Madrid took the lead, even Messi was struggling a bit to keep the game moving it was Iniesta that gave the breakthrough by creating the first goal and from then on Barca tonked Real.

In the semifinals overall he wasnt as good as Messi even in the reverse leg except he scored a great goal and the MOM in the final.
 
Brwned said:
It's not really.

No, you said 'Until the last few months of last season he wasnt doing too much with it.' which is bollocks.

It wasn't a discussion about how productive Iniesta is it's about how good he was.

And what you said about him doing very little with the ball was evidently rubbish.
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After talking about his good play in the middle and helping Barcelona keep most of the ball. He wasnt doing much with it for a player of his abilities. He was linking up with other players who were doing the vast majority of the damage. He could do more and he did end up doing more.
 
Ekeke I somehow doubt you've seen Iniesta play, you don't have to score or assist to dictate a midfield, something he's been doing for years. I guess that is why we have our unsung heroes in football.

It not a measure of how great he is, you have to actually watch him play, correct passes, dribbles, tackles etc he actually plays quite deep for Barca, if you think he plays in the Lampard role you are quite mistaken.
 
vijay said:
Last season Iniesta played in the inside left position of the midfield behind Henry and Messi, not really in a forward position as he was played a season before that. Secondly you're basing you're writing your assumptions on stats, he was brilliant than what the stats suggested. Iniesta best games towards the end of the season were against Real Madrid and CL finals. When Real Madrid took the lead, even Messi was struggling a bit to keep the game moving it was Iniesta that gave the breakthrough by creating the first goal and from then on Barca tonked Real.

In the semifinals overall he wasnt as good as Messi even in the reverse leg except he scored a great goal and the MOM in the final.
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Messi actually created the first goal with that little dink to Henry.......
 
vijay said:
Last season Iniesta played in the inside left position of the midfield behind Henry and Messi, not really in a forward position as he was played a season before that. Secondly you're basing you're writing your assumptions on stats, he was brilliant than what the stats suggested. Iniesta best games towards the end of the season were against Real Madrid and CL finals. When Real Madrid took the lead, even Messi was struggling a bit to keep the game moving it was Iniesta that gave the breakthrough by creating the first goal and from then on Barca tonked Real.

In the semifinals he wasnt as good as Messi even in the reverse leg except he scored a great goal and the MOM in the final.
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Where have I said he wasnt brilliant helping Barcelona keep the ball and doing great work in the middle? In fact I swear I pointed that out. But when he's the free man in a midfield 3 he should also be scoring a fair amount of goals and invading the box setting up others too. He did little of that before the last 10 games of the season.

3 assists and 2 goals in 17 matches by Feb for Barcelona who were toying with all comers just goes to show that much of his turns and dribbles in central areas came to nothing in front of goal.
 
Boss said:
Ekeke I somehow doubt you've seen Iniesta play, you don't have to score or assist to dictate a midfield, something he's been doing for years. I guess that is why we have our unsung heroes in football.

It not a measure of how great he is, you have to actually watch him play, correct passes, dribbles, tackles etc he actually plays quite deep for Barca, if you think he plays in the Lampard role you are quite mistaken.
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Or maybe you didnt read my posts? Yep, think thats it.

Ekeke said:
Incorrect. Iniesta came into his own during the final part of the season, including his goal against Chelsea. Before the last part of the season, he'd set up and scored few goals for a player of his supreme quality.

He was doing some nice work in central areas of midfield and helped his team control the vast majority of the ball but he wasnt very productive at all.

In the last 10 matches he played last season he scored 3 goals. He'd managed 2 goals all season up until then. Until Feb he'd only managed 3 assists either.



He was doing brilliant pieces of play in central areas but was nowhere near as productive as he should have been. He's a player you should be able to count on by now for goals for himself and setting up goals for others. Until the last 10 games of last season Barcelona were unable to count on him for that. Luckily they didnt need to as other players around him were so productive.
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I havent neglected any of the great work he was doing far from goal, but he wasnt being as productive as a player of his quality could have been. He was more productive in the last 10 games, which just goes to prove it.
 
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