Giggs trial

Archi said:
You can get fixated on certain sexual acts but also certain sexual partners. But to do it for 8 years straight, he should have sought out treatment from the beginning if he was banging his brothers wife
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What about Tiger Woods..... Hot Wife but would sleep with tons of women and his career was legendary, soon as he got caught.... he became crap overnight.

Gigg's clearly was in that same bubble of top elite sportspeople all in a way, having a kind of drug to enhance their performances and careers.
 
FizzyWomack said:
No matter how many times you say he’s shagged his brothers wife he will always be a legend at this club. That’s a fact. The mistake was sleeping with his brothers wife, that’s unforgivable. He’s still the most decorated footballer in English football and that’s how I’ll remember him.
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- You can idolize him as a footballer. Nothing wrong with it, Giggs gave it all for United and I respect that.
- But as a human being, his moral compass is fecking broken. Deliberately Shagging your brother wife for 8 years is not a mistake.

I still think he's United legend and despite his personality at the same time. These are not mutually exclusive.
 
adexkola said:
That context is not needed. He's one of the best wingers of his generation.
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The comment I was responding to said he is one of the best wingers of the twentieth century, not his generation.

He may be one of the best wingers of his generation, but certainly not the twentieth century.

Surely you know the difference between the two?
 
royboy16 said:
How was he caught with his brothers wife, Did Imogen grass on him ?
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Actually that slut Natasha did. Probably loved him so when it came out he had been banging Imogen too, she spilled it out.

You wonder how on earth did she come out top in all of this.

Giggs - the cnut of the highest order but sort of paid the price given he lost some of his family, some section of the fans and a good name. Still had money to burn, fancy job and support from many people, including his mother and most of family.

Rhodri - Innocent yet most severely damaged (along with Stacey and Ryan's/Rhodri's kids). His father said some time ago he was penniless and his mum hasn't spoken to him since it happened. Sick. Apparently the bigger chunk of the family prefer to spend time with Ryan with all the games, hospitality and money. Takes care of children alone.

Natasha - Was forgiven by Rhodri, then left him two years ago and could be seen left right centre in media since the accident, Big Brother and what not. Now prides herself on being a mother with another guy. Also aborted Ryan's baby just because it would be inconvenient for her.
 
GenZRed said:
The comment I was responding to said he is one of the best wingers of the twentieth century, not his generation.

He may be one of the best wingers of his generation, but certainly not the twentieth century.

Surely you know the difference between the two?
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He's one of the best wingers of the twentieth century.
 
Tomuś said:
Actually that slut Natasha did. Probably loved him so when it came out he had been banging Imogen too, she spilled it out.

You wonder how on earth did she come out top in all of this.

Giggs - the cnut of the highest order but sort of paid the price given he lost some of his family, some section of the fans and a good name. Still had money to burn, fancy job and support from many people, including his mother and most of family.

Rhodri - Innocent yet most severely damaged (along with Stacey and Ryan's/Rhodri's kids). His father said some time ago he was penniless and his mum hasn't spoken to him since it happened. Sick. Apparently the bigger chunk of the family prefer to spend time with Ryan with all the games, hospitality and money. Takes care of children alone.

Natasha - Was forgiven by Rhodri, then left him two years ago and could be seen left right centre in media since the accident, Big Brother and what not. Now prides herself on being a mother with another guy. Also aborted Ryan's baby just because it would be inconvenient for her.
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A nice family portrait, what a disaster.
 
Tomuś said:
Actually that slut Natasha did. Probably loved him so when it came out he had been banging Imogen too, she spilled it out.

You wonder how on earth did she come out top in all of this.

Giggs - the cnut of the highest order but sort of paid the price given he lost some of his family, some section of the fans and a good name. Still had money to burn, fancy job and support from many people, including his mother and most of family.

Rhodri - Innocent yet most severely damaged (along with Stacey and Ryan's/Rhodri's kids). His father said some time ago he was penniless and his mum hasn't spoken to him since it happened. Sick. Apparently the bigger chunk of the family prefer to spend time with Ryan with all the games, hospitality and money. Takes care of children alone.

Natasha - Was forgiven by Rhodri, then left him two years ago and could be seen left right centre in media since the accident, Big Brother and what not. Now prides herself on being a mother with another guy. Also aborted Ryan's baby just because it would be inconvenient for her.
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What a scumbag family. Mother not chatting to the son who got fecked over cos she supports the son who fecked him over cos he's rich and famous? That's where Giggsy must have inherited his morals from
 
Tomuś said:
Giggs - the cnut of the highest order but sort of paid the price given he lost some of his family, some section of the fans and a good name. Still had money to burn, fancy job and support from many people, including his mother and most of family.

Rhodri - Innocent yet most severely damaged (along with Stacey and Ryan's/Rhodri's kids). His father said some time ago he was penniless and his mum hasn't spoken to him since it happened. Sick. Apparently the bigger chunk of the family prefer to spend time with Ryan with all the games, hospitality and money. Takes care of children alone.

Natasha - Was forgiven by Rhodri, then left him two years ago and could be seen left right centre in media since the accident, Big Brother and what not. Now prides herself on being a mother with another guy. Also aborted Ryan's baby just because it would be inconvenient for her.
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I read all of that like the guy speaking the intro to an episode of Soap.

 
Tomuś said:
Actually that slut Natasha did. Probably loved him so when it came out he had been banging Imogen too, she spilled it out.

You wonder how on earth did she come out top in all of this.

Giggs - the cnut of the highest order but sort of paid the price given he lost some of his family, some section of the fans and a good name. Still had money to burn, fancy job and support from many people, including his mother and most of family.

Rhodri - Innocent yet most severely damaged (along with Stacey and Ryan's/Rhodri's kids). His father said some time ago he was penniless and his mum hasn't spoken to him since it happened. Sick. Apparently the bigger chunk of the family prefer to spend time with Ryan with all the games, hospitality and money. Takes care of children alone.

Natasha - Was forgiven by Rhodri, then left him two years ago and could be seen left right centre in media since the accident, Big Brother and what not. Now prides herself on being a mother with another guy. Also aborted Ryan's baby just because it would be inconvenient for her.
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By all accounts from people I know who know his Dad, he’s gotten a lot of these awful traits from his father.
 
Legend my arse. Was Ched Evans footballing career separated from his personal life? Should we still label a footballer a legend after if he is a rapist? What about a pedophile? Murderer? To me he is no longer a legend. A legend holds the values of the club and those values include moral and ethical values and shagging your brothers wife and beating women definitely breaks it. Would you have his statue outside old trafford? Should children idolize him? No. If your a piece of sht then you are no longer a legend. Whats next still put Rolf Harris on the BBC cos his entertainment career is separate from his personal life?
 
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Ryan Giggs: A legendary footballer and a despicable human being.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Legend my arse. Was Ched Evans footballing career separated from his personal life? Should we still label a footballer a legend after if he is a rapist? What about a pedophile? Murderer? To me he is no longer a legend. A legend holds the values of the club and those values include moral and ethical values and shagging your brothers wife and beating women definitely breaks it. Would you have his statue outside old trafford? Should children idolize him? No. If your a piece of sht then you are no longer a legend. Whats next still put Rolf Harris on the BBC cos his entertainment career is sperate from his personal life?
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Ched Evans was eventually acquitted
 
UpWithRivers said:
Legend my arse. Was Ched Evans footballing career separated from his personal life? Should we still label a footballer a legend after if he is a rapist? What about a pedophile? Murderer? To me he is no longer a legend. A legend holds the values of the club and those values include moral and ethical values and shagging your brothers wife and beating women definitely breaks it. Would you have his statue outside old trafford? Should children idolize him? No. If your a piece of sht then you are no longer a legend. Whats next still put Rolf Harris on the BBC cos his entertainment career is separate from his personal life?
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Well George Best did this too, also an alcoholic. So why is he still held insuch high regard then?

Edit. I mean domestic abuse , not rape.
 
This is the age old artist vs deeds debate. Do we still love Goerge Best, knowing all the shit he got up to in his private life? Is it ok to still love the Smith's now that we know that Mozza is a cnut? What these guys have created is indelible. Are you telling me you're going g to stop feeling anything when you see reruns of Giggs slamming in the winner against Arsenal in the semi and wheeling away with his unfeasibly hairy chest? Of course you're not. But most of us recognise that he's a deeply flawed human being.
I know cancelling people is all the rage these days but human life is complicated. We're able to hate the act without rubbing out his entire existence.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Legend my arse. Was Ched Evans footballing career separated from his personal life? Should we still label a footballer a legend after if he is a rapist? What about a pedophile? Murderer? To me he is no longer a legend. A legend holds the values of the club and those values include moral and ethical values and shagging your brothers wife and beating women definitely breaks it. Would you have his statue outside old trafford? Should children idolize him? No. If your a piece of sht then you are no longer a legend. Whats next still put Rolf Harris on the BBC cos his entertainment career is separate from his personal life?
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There’s a statue of George Best outside the stadium.
 
Oranges038 said:
Well George Best did this too, also an alcoholic. So why is he still held insuch high regard then?

Edit. I mean domestic abuse , not rape.
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Still ill said:
This is the age old artist vs deeds debate. Do we still love Goerge Best, knowing all the shit he got up to in his private life? Is it ok to still love the Smith's now that we know that Mozza is a cnut? What these guys have created is indelible. Are you telling me you're going g to stop feeling anything when you see reruns of Giggs slamming in the winner against Arsenal in the semi and wheeling away with his unfeasibly hairy chest? Of course you're not. But most of us recognise that he's a deeply flawed human being.
I know cancelling people is all the rage these days but human life is complicated. We're able to hate the act without rubbing out his entire existence.
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So you still watch Rolf Harris? Thats fine is it. A bit of Tie me Kangaroo down sport?
 
Whatever happened in his personal life should stay in his personal life. We know him as a football player and that is kinda it.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
There’s a statue of George Best outside the stadium.
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Exactly. Its like the whole pulling down of statues in America. We have idolized pieces of shit for centuries. Christopher Columbus taught in history classes for generations. Turns out he was a piece of sht and most people dont even know it.

youmeletsfly said:
Whatever happened in his personal life should stay in his personal life. We know him as a football player and that is kinda it.
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Will everyone saying this tell me where the lines is. Do we turn a blind eye to paedohiles? Rapists? Murderers? What?
 
UpWithRivers said:
So you still watch Rolf Harris? Thats fine is it. A bit of Tie me Kangaroo down sport?
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No, and I don't go to church either. Just pointing out the level of hypocrisy in that post, in reference to the comment about having a statue outside the stadium. The same fans who think Best is one of the greatest of all time have turned out in force to lay into Giggs.

Great footballer, but an utter scumbag in his private life. Same goes for Best.
 
Archi said:
What a scumbag family. Mother not chatting to the son who got fecked over cos she supports the son who fecked him over cos he's rich and famous? That's where Giggsy must have inherited his morals from
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I am not trying to defend Giggs. In my opinion, his football career should have ended the moment this scandal came out. I mean, how can anyone trust someone like him around wags? Its like throwing a fox in a chicken coop.

However there's something in this story that simply doesn't add up. Rhodri's former wife had treated him like shit, Rhodri's brother had done the same and now Rhodri's mum is doing the same thing. Can lightening strike the same place 3 times at a row? Or could it be the case that the apple doesn't really fall far from the tree and Rhodri is as scum or even worse then his brother is?
 
Two points to make here. First of all he will be tried in a court of law, so judgement to be (somewhat) suspended until a guilty verdict is returned, but the police statement already condemns him through stating that the woman involved had ‘minor injuries’ so evidently they think they have a case.

Second point is the wider issue of whether you judge an artist purely on the basis of his work or whether considerations of his character have to come into play. This applies to whether he’s a skilful footballer, painter, architect, musician, writer, whatever.

Does maradona’s frankly poor character diminish the iconic images he painted at the highest level? Do you despise Gauguin for being a paedophile, Naipaul for being a wife-beater, Beethoven for being toxic and arrogant, Caravaggio for being a murderer? Or do you look at what they produced and marvel at it for its own sake, ignoring the character of the man who produced it?

The issue here is the idolising of giggs. He was a very skilful footballer. He produced lovely images on the pitch. He won you scores of trophies so you revere him. It’s probably worthwhile divorcing that from any consideration of him as a human being in your own mind.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Exactly. Its like the whole pulling down of statues in America. We have idolized pieces of shit for centuries. Christopher Columbus taught in history classes for generations. Turns out he was a piece of sht and most people dont even know it.
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I think the situation is more analogous to someone like Michael Jackson, who might have given you endless joy from him artistic achievements, but have such a problematic dark side that for many, it taints the art as well.

My personal take is that we should be able to enjoy and celebrate their achievements, since it belongs to human genius as a whole, but make perfectly clear that idolatry is out of the question. It’s like preserving historic, extravagant architecture that were built on blood and exploitation/robbery. Beauty and cruelty, the duality of human nature.
 
RUCK4444 said:
By all accounts from people I know who know his Dad, he’s gotten a lot of these awful traits from his father.
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I read Gigg's autobiography years ago and if I recall correctly his dad was a violent womanising alcoholic who caused the family great pain, hence why he dropped his fathers surmane
 
Oranges038 said:
Well George Best did this too, also an alcoholic. So why is he still held insuch high regard then?

Edit. I mean domestic abuse , not rape.
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To be fair since Best was before many of us, I don't think a lot of people knew all of what he got up to. I knew about the alcoholism, but I didn't know he was an abuser as well. I certainly think much, much less of him now that I know that.
 
devilish said:
I am not trying to defend Giggs. In my opinion, his football career should have ended the moment this scandal came out. I mean, how can anyone trust someone like him around wags? Its like throwing a fox in a chicken coop.

However there's something in this story that simply doesn't add up. Rhodri's former wife had treated him like shit, Rhodri's brother had done the same and now Rhodri's mum is doing the same thing. Can lightening strike the same place 3 times at a row? Or could it be the case that the apple doesn't really fall far from the tree and Rhodri is as scum or even worse then his brother is?
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Rhodri has done some time in prison in the past. Think he bottled someone in the face. Can’t say he is a paragon of virtue
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I read Gigg's autobiography years ago and if I recall correctly his dad was a violent womanising alcoholic who caused the family great pain, hence why he dropped his fathers surmane
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Yeah it’s well known in Cardiff that his Dad is all of those things.

I work with a few older lads who know his Dad and they’ve always said the same going back before Giggs book as well.

Its always been known that he hates his father for those reasons, sad how people can become their parents even when they loath those same traits about them.

Rhodri is no saint either. No excusing what Giggs has done though.
 
UpWithRivers said:
So you still watch Rolf Harris? Thats fine is it. A bit of Tie me Kangaroo down sport?
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Oh behave. Rolf has disappeared because he had nothing of real worth to leave behind. Ditto Saville, Gary Glitter etc. Trawl through the lives of the great artists, songwriters, actors, directors, photographers, authors and you'll find plenty of despicable human beings. Are you telling me that should wipe out everything they've produced? It's that black and white world view that has us in the state we're in.
Off to reappraise 'Tie me Kangaroo down, sport'.
 
Still ill said:
This is the age old artist vs deeds debate. Do we still love Goerge Best, knowing all the shit he got up to in his private life? Is it ok to still love the Smith's now that we know that Mozza is a cnut? What these guys have created is indelible. Are you telling me you're going g to stop feeling anything when you see reruns of Giggs slamming in the winner against Arsenal in the semi and wheeling away with his unfeasibly hairy chest? Of course you're not. But most of us recognise that he's a deeply flawed human being.
I know cancelling people is all the rage these days but human life is complicated. We're able to hate the act without rubbing out his entire existence.
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Nah. I'm not defending that cnut of a human being giggs. If the club sticks by him just in the name of a few goals and trophies we're no better city.

And all this hypocrisy of "what he does outside the field isnt our business" is making me sick. Yes it does. We judge player like suarez, heinze, tevez, mascherano etc because of their antiques. Can we separate suarez the player and suarez the racist? Can we separate amber heard the liar and amber heard the actress?

Double standard because he happens to be many of us childhood hero.

And regarding best. I wasnt around when he did that. I was an adult when i find out about giggs. Therein lies the difference. I cant do or feel anything about best but i do about giggs. And that's different with "we're ok with best". I'm not ok with best, made a theead about it and I'll say it there
 
So he attacked 2 people? Sounds like he caught his girlfriend giving him a taste of his own medicine
 
gormless said:
Rhodri has done some time in prison in the past. Think he bottled someone in the face. Can’t say he is a paragon of virtue
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We Maltese tend to know a thing or two about close knit families. However I struggle how someone could have an affair with his brother's wife for 8 whole years without that same brother noticing anything. That sounds BS to me. Then there are various stories about Rhodri leaving Manchester homeless and penniless, his humiliating TV advert were he capitalised about the fact that he was cuckolded by his brother, his own mother not talking to him + there's those old drug trafficking charges (whom tbf he got acquitted from). Maybe I am jumping to conclusions here but it seem to me that this guy would sell his own mother for money. Certainly there's something that doesn't sit right here.
 
el_loco_bielsa said:
Two points to make here. First of all he will be tried in a court of law, so judgement to be (somewhat) suspended until a guilty verdict is returned, but the police statement already condemns him through stating that the woman involved had ‘minor injuries’ so evidently they think they have a case.

Second point is the wider issue of whether you judge an artist purely on the basis of his work or whether considerations of his character have to come into play. This applies to whether he’s a skilful footballer, painter, architect, musician, writer, whatever.

Does maradona’s frankly poor character diminish the iconic images he painted at the highest level? Do you despise Gauguin for being a paedophile, Naipaul for being a wife-beater, Beethoven for being toxic and arrogant, Caravaggio for being a murderer? Or do you look at what they produced and marvel at it for its own sake, ignoring the character of the man who produced it?

The issue here is the idolising of giggs. He was a very skilful footballer. He produced lovely images on the pitch. He won you scores of trophies so you revere him. It’s probably worthwhile divorcing that from any consideration of him as a human being in your own mind.
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Agreed.
 
el_loco_bielsa said:
Two points to make here. First of all he will be tried in a court of law, so judgement to be (somewhat) suspended until a guilty verdict is returned, but the police statement already condemns him through stating that the woman involved had ‘minor injuries’ so evidently they think they have a case.

Second point is the wider issue of whether you judge an artist purely on the basis of his work or whether considerations of his character have to come into play. This applies to whether he’s a skilful footballer, painter, architect, musician, writer, whatever.

Does maradona’s frankly poor character diminish the iconic images he painted at the highest level? Do you despise Gauguin for being a paedophile, Naipaul for being a wife-beater, Beethoven for being toxic and arrogant, Caravaggio for being a murderer? Or do you look at what they produced and marvel at it for its own sake, ignoring the character of the man who produced it?

The issue here is the idolising of giggs. He was a very skilful footballer. He produced lovely images on the pitch. He won you scores of trophies so you revere him. It’s probably worthwhile divorcing that from any consideration of him as a human being in your own mind.
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There's a different between admitting he's a cnut footballer who happened to play for us

And

Saying he's still my favorite player. What he does outside is non of my concern. We all make mistakes

We cant erase history. But we can change our admiration and perception upon the man
 
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