Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[Garethw]

The game needs VAR, but I hate this iteration of it.

 

[Imran Mamdani]

VAR works if used well. It’s the way people are running it that’s ruining it. Like I said, bring in accountability (bans and consequences) to referees and decisions they make. Only then we’ll see a clean game.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Except what Kamara says in that piece is utter, utter horseshit. Both Kamara and Andy Gray (who made a similar point) not only don't know how VAR works, they don't seem to know how basic perspective works either. Anyone who says "the line isn't straight" is an idiot. It shouldn't look straight. He might as well have complained that the VAR offside line isn't parallel to the goal line.

Who do you believe knows more about physics, Kamara or professional engineers? Kammy for me like, luckily we're privileged enough to have him sharing his wealth of knowledge of triangulation in 3D imaging.

 

[sullydnl]

Who do you believe knows more about physics, Kamara or professional engineers? Kammy for me like, luckily we're privileged enough to have him sharing his wealth of knowledge of triangulation in 3D imaging.

I didn't want it to be true but then he said he measured it with a bit of paper. Now I don't know what to believe.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Who do you believe knows more about physics, Kamara or professional engineers? Kammy for me like, luckily we're privileged enough to have him sharing his wealth of knowledge of triangulation in 3D imaging.

instead of choosing to comment on something about Chris Kamara as he’s easy pickings (even though there’s a valid argument to the basic premise that you need to freeze frame the ball at exactly the right point to when it leaves a boot & that is incredibly difficult to pick up on) how about you comment on how Shite VAR has been multiple times today (never mind this season)

Can you look at this point :


VAR will never be consistent because it’s not the same ref looking at VAR in every game so you’ll always get inconsistencies?

Agree?

 

[Pavl3n]

How come VAR is success in Germany and failure in England?

 

[Vidyoyo]

I'm starting to think that to make a success of VAR you might need to train a new generation of referees.

 

[antihenry]

Chelsea boss Frank Lampard has warned that the current use of VAR could be "dangerous" for the Premier League.

Guidance from the Premier League at the start of the season said that it would only be used for "clear and obvious" errors by on-field referees.

But when Watford were awarded a penalty via VAR after Gerard Deulofeu was tripped by Jorginho, Lampard said he was "so, so surprised".

"We're not in a great place with it," he said after Chelsea's 2-1 win.

"Any [decision] that takes that long means they aren't sure, so why aren't we using screens on side of pitch?

"I know [using screens] is a bit contentious, I know it could mean every fan might call for it and there might pressure on the referees.

"But if we are saying they are grey areas and we are overturning decisions because one referee somewhere else thinks it was more of a penalty than the referee on the pitch, then I think we are in a really dangerous place.

"You're going to be tossing a coin every week."

 

[limerickcitykid]

instead of choosing to comment on something about Chris Kamara as he’s easy pickings (even though there’s a valid argument to the basic premise that you need to freeze frame the ball at exactly the right point to when it leaves a boot & that is incredibly difficult to pick up on) how about you comment on how Shite VAR has been multiple times today (never mind this season)

Can you look at this point :


VAR will never be consistent because it’s not the same ref looking at VAR in every game so you’ll always get inconsistencies?

Agree?

Refs making terrible calls has nothing to do with commentators consistently not understanding basic fundamentals of the program used to judge the offsides and thinking their piece of paper test is more accurate than a program designed by professional engineers.

Reffing will never be consistent because refs and linesmen are not the same people. Can you agree that refs and linesmen are in fact different people and thus can't make consistent calls? How is it any different? It isn't of course and it is a stupid argument. They're all professional refs who should be capable of making calls by the laws of the game, which they aren't doing. With or without VAR the game isn't reffed by a single person, nor should it be.

 

[do.ob]

I don't understand how getting a ref to check a pitch side monitor would make any difference. It's the same group of refs who are sitting in the van making decisions, not like the ref on the pitch is going to be magically better.

VAR has just exposed how bad the standard of refereeing is; some of them can't even get it right with the benefit of replays.

A lot of calls aren't 100% black and white, if for example the referee has been officiating quite generous and then VAR awards a penalty because he applies a stricter interpretation (or vice versa) then that's a problematic inconsistency. Using onfield reviews makes sure that every decision is made through the same filter of subjectivity.
It's also probably more reassuring for people if they see the review process with their own eyes and it's the guy in front of them who has the final say, instead of someone hidden away in a studio; perhaps even more so for players, because he can then explain his reasons to them.

Reducing responsibility of VAR in that way also makes it much less of a target for criticism, because unless they miss something entirely it's always the regular ref who makes the mistakes.

I think in a perfect world we wouldn't need this, but at the moment it's probably the implementation that most people can live with.

 

[red4ever 79]

VAR got so many things wrong yesterday. Everton should have had a pen when Ali did a Maradona. Son should have been given a yellow card for simulation. Decisions taking far too long

 

[do.ob]

Atkinson getting damned by all and sundry. Good. I'm glad people (Linekar, Kamara to name an illustrious few) are calling it out for what it is: blatant manipulation with intent to cheat. Not a mistake or ineptitude.

You think if they manipulate they would do it in such an obvious way? Kamara's little paper experiment was one of the dumbest things I've heard on TV, completely ignorant of stuff 14 year olds learn at school, it's sad that millions of people get exposed to this idiocy without someone stepping in and even worse that so many of the them lap it up.

 

[tenpoless]

As long as We keep getting penalties out of it, I'm in.

When it becomes disadvantageous to us, I'll turn against it faster than Ashley Young realizing there's bird shit in his mouth.

 

[kafta]

The version of VAR applied in England is by far the worst version of it. If used properly, it could be a welcomed addition. Now, its just sucking the joy out of the premier league.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Refs making terrible calls has nothing to do with commentators consistently not understanding basic fundamentals of the program used to judge the offsides and thinking their piece of paper test is more accurate than a program designed by professional engineers.

Reffing will never be consistent because refs and linesmen are not the same people. Can you agree that refs and linesmen are in fact different people and thus can't make consistent calls? How is it any different? It isn't of course and it is a stupid argument. They're all professional refs who should be capable of making calls by the laws of the game, which they aren't doing. With or without VAR the game isn't reffed by a single person, nor should it be.

Yes I do agree that, which is why it doesn’t help adding another layer of inconsistency on top of that in a single game.

Therefore not a stupid argument.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

There is nothing wrong with VAR.

The problem lays with the imbeciles that are using it, the standard of referees in the Premiership is bordering on shocking.

Premiership referees are so overprotected its unreal, there is literally no comeback on them at all when they make mistakes.

Why does the Premier league and all its money not look at the standard of referring in rugby and their use of VAR and not try to replicate it ?

Why are Premiership referees not miked up like in rugby so we can hear exactly why they are making the decisions they make ?

People who say we cannot mike up referees in football because of the language etc are talking though their backsides, footballers are maybe a little stupid but not that stupid and they would soon stop back chatting the referee once they start getting instantly booked for bad language.

It would be just a matter of a few weeks and all that language would virtually stop.

But no, none of this will happen because it would instantly show how inept most of these referees are and they would have no protection as their reasons for their decisions would be heard live.

Let me honest, the guy in charge of referees is Mike Riley and anyone who remembers him as a referee will know how weak he was and its no surprise there has been no improvement since he has been in charge and the fact there is little chance of miking up referees with him there.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

There is nothing wrong with VAR.

The problem lays with the imbeciles that are using it, the standard of referees in the Premiership is bordering on shocking.

Premiership referees are so overprotected its unreal, there is literally no comeback on them at all when they make mistakes.

Why does the Premier league and all its money not look at the standard of referring in rugby and their use of VAR and not try to replicate it ?

Why are Premiership referees not miked up like in rugby so we can hear exactly why they are making the decisions they make ?

People who say we cannot mike up referees in football because of the language etc are talking though their backsides, footballers are maybe a little stupid but not that stupid and they would soon stop back chatting the referee once they start getting instantly booked for bad language.

It would be just a matter of a few weeks and all that language would virtually stop.

But no, none of this will happen because it would instantly show how inept most of these referees are and they would have no protection as their reasons for their decisions would be heard live.

Let me honest, the guy in charge of referees is Mike Riley and anyone who remembers him as a referee will know how weak he was and its no surprise there has been no improvement since he has been in charge and the fact there is little chance of miking up referees with him there.

But that is VAR. I’m tired of this argument ‘ VAR is great it’s just the people using it’

it’s another guy looking at a screen. It’s not some amazing technology, it’s another ref looking at a replay.

 

[cyberman]

But that is VAR. I’m tired of this argument ‘ VAR is great it’s just the people using it’

it’s another guy looking at a screen. It’s not some amazing technology, it’s another ref looking at a replay.

So it is the people using it?

 

[dove]

But that is VAR. I’m tired of this argument ‘ VAR is great it’s just the people using it’

it’s another guy looking at a screen. It’s not some amazing technology, it’s another ref looking at a replay.

That's the point. These refs looking at the replay are unbelievably useless at watching replays. Ali's handball in yesterdays game was a prime example of that. It took a good 3 minutes for the referee to watch 100 replays how the ball hit the hand while it should be enough to watch 2-3 replays from a couple angles. Or the penalty we got against Norwich. Not only that it took fecking ages to make a decision, they made a shocking one. It should have taken 5 seconds to see that there should be no penalty.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

So it is the people using it?

Which is VAR. VAR is the people using it. It’s no use saying it’s great while at the same time saying it’s only bad because people using it are terrible

 

[VP89]

Which is VAR. VAR is the people using it. It’s no use saying it’s great while at the same time saying it’s only bad because people using it are terrible

No. VAR is the technology. The people using it in this league are idiots who fail to properly grasp what it's meant to be used for or the protocall of how to use it.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

No. VAR is the technology. The people using it in this league are idiots who fail to properly grasp what it's meant to be used for or the protocall of how to use it.

No. To use use VAR you need the ‘idiots’

 

[Annihilate Now!]

No. VAR is the technology. The people using it in this league are idiots who fail to properly grasp what it's meant to be used for or the protocall of how to use it.

I mean it literally stands for Video Assistant Referee.

VAR is and will always be the people using it. If they're shit then VAR is shit. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[VP89]

I mean it literally stands for Video Assistant Referee.

VAR is and will always be the people using it. If they're shit then VAR is shit. They're not mutually exclusive.

A very odd argument, because the suggestion then is to scrap VAR all together rather than improve on the people using it.

The problem isn't the technology, its the failure to abide by proper protocall. Its an ASSISTANT to the main referee. And yet the referee never goes to the touchline to make a decision for himself.

 

[VP89]

No. To use use VAR you need the ‘idiots’

You need to train them. The FA have implemented protocall that's inconsistent with what VAR is meant to do. They flag too early when they are not meant to. They don't go to the touchline to review when they are meant to. They don't look for clear and obvious errors and are just evaluating every minor thing trying to act smart.

That's down to a shit interpretation of VAR. It works way better in international games and other leagues.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

A very odd argument, because the suggestion then is to scrap VAR all together rather than improve on the people using it.

The problem isn't the technology, its the failure to abide by proper protocall. Its an ASSISTANT to the main referee. And yet the referee never goes to the touchline to make a decision for himself.

The suggestion is to improve VAR. That's the only way it can get better. VAR isn't just the technology, it's evening that surrounds it.

 

[VP89]

The suggestion is to improve VAR. That's the only way it can get better. VAR isn't just the technology, it's evening that surrounds it.

That's fine, I'm OK with that line of thought and don't want to get into pedantic as to what it covers and what it doesn't.

I'm not OK with the idea it should be scrapped because of incompetence by the referees in using it.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

You need to train them. The FA have implemented protocall that's inconsistent with what VAR is meant to do. They flag too early when they are not meant to. They don't go to the touchline to review when they are meant to. They don't look for clear and obvious errors and are just evaluating every minor thing trying to act smart.

That's down to a shit interpretation of VAR. It works way better in international games and other leagues.

It doesn’t work great in other leagues either, Ive watched many & it ruins a lot there too.

A shit interpretation of VAR is still VAR

 

[Rafaeldagold]

A very odd argument, because the suggestion then is to scrap VAR all together rather than improve on the people using it.

The problem isn't the technology, its the failure to abide by proper protocall. Its an ASSISTANT to the main referee. And yet the referee never goes to the touchline to make a decision for himself.

Yes scrap VAR altogether is the answer.

The problem is VAR in general, it’s an inherently flawed system providing even more inconsistencies as every VAR assistant will subjectively view incidents differently

 

[VP89]

It doesn’t work great in other leagues either, Ive watched many & it ruins a lot there too.

A shit interpretation of VAR is still VAR

It leads to more right decisions than wrong, so its 100% a step in the right directions. I watch the game too.

Yes scrap VAR altogether is the answer.

The problem is VAR in general, it’s an inherently flawed system providing even more inconsistencies as every VAR assistant will subjectively view incidents differently

No, its not.

 

[Peeping Tim]

It's a very simple and useful tool, being used by tools. That's the problem.

With the Firmino "goal", we have a very serious problem (not the same argument Kammy and whatsit have highlighted), and I urge you to go and watch it carefully.

When they cut to the VAR offside lines initially Firmino is on side. They then re-calibrate the lines, starting with a default of him being offside. With that second line (showing him offside), look at where the calibrating lines are going, they are basically saying the part of Firmino's body that is furthest forward was level (laterally) with the penalty spot, when actually his whole body was to the right of the penalty spot and it was his right arm.

Whoever did the second lot of lines was was using the deception of perspective to make it look like he was off, when, in actuality the first line drawn was correct (showing him on).

This seriously needs looking into, as it shows that VAR images can, and have been, manipulated to alter the outcomes.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

It leads to more right decisions than wrong, so its 100% a step in the right directions. I watch the game too.

mhmm does it though..I think it adds a whole new layer of unfairness where one week a VAR ref gives a decision & the next week a different VAR ref gives a completely different one for the same incident.

It’s just not worth all the hassle it brings & the stoppages & the inconsistencies & the not being sure a goal is actually a goal anymore incase of a 1mm offside in the build up somewhere.

At the end of the day of you think it’s a net plus for the game then fine but for me it really isn’t .

 

[RUCK4444]

What an utter load of unadulterated shite it’s been. It’s been every inch the stain on the PL I knew it would be.

The game has literally been broken down into an argument of millimetres on somebody’s knee or little toe for offsides.

Refs won’t look at the feckin screen in front of them.

Handball rule has become totally laughable (even when you take into consideration the written ruling on handball.)

Kills the excitement at goals.

Every game post-match the only talking point is VAR decisions, or lack thereof.

Above all else, regardless of fair play, why would any of us have voted for this boring shite show compared to what we had??

I said at the time, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. There was no outcry of horrendous decisions after every game before, certainly not enough to warrant this absolute stain on the game.
Sorry but Anybody still arguing it’s worth it need to give their head a wobble, and probably didn’t enjoy watching football to begin with.

 

[VP89]

mhmm does it though..I think it adds a whole new layer of unfairness where one week a VAR ref gives a decision & the next week a different VAR ref gives a completely different one for the same incident.

It’s just not worth all the hassle it brings & the stoppages & the inconsistencies & the not being sure a goal is actually a goal anymore incase of a 1mm offside in the build up somewhere.

At the end of the day of you think it’s a net plus for the game then fine but for me it really isn’t .

Yes. It makes more right decisions than wrong.

I don't give two shits about stoppages as long as the result is correct.

 

[cyberman]

Which is VAR. VAR is the people using it. It’s no use saying it’s great while at the same time saying it’s only bad because people using it are terrible

Then its the officials, not VAR itself.
Its like blaming a car for somebodys poor driving skills.
Theres one aspect of that process that needs to be improved on and its not the technology itself.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Yes. It makes more right decisions than wrong.

I don't give two shits about stoppages as long as the result is correct.

So if we follow your logic all the way through you’re happy to stop the game constantly to make sure every throw in, corner, tackle is correct?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Then its the officials, not VAR itself.
Its like blaming a car for somebodys poor driving skills.
Theres one aspect of that process that needs to be improved on and its not the technology itself.

VAR doesn’t work without the officials looking at it.

it’s like saying my car is great it’s just I have no wheels or engine.

Means the car is Shite I’m afraid

 

[VP89]

So if we follow your logic all the way through you’re happy to stop the game constantly to make sure every throw in, corner, tackle is correct?

No, only if its in relation to a goal scoring opportunity or a red card. That's what it's made for.

 

[VP89]

VAR doesn’t work without the officials looking at it.

it’s like saying my car is great it’s just I have no wheels or engine.

Means the car is Shite I’m afraid

No its like saying, I can't use the new iPhone because I am shit with technology, so the iPhone must be shite for everyone.

Which is flawed. VAR is fine. The referees here are just incompetent at following it's protocall.

 

[krautrøck]

One of the main issues with VAR everywhere seems to be that the technical side of things, aka handling the actual input via mouse and keyboard, should be handled by digital natives and not by the equivalent of my dad who somehow manages to inadvertently leave every single url he visits as a clickable shortcut on the desktop.