Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

VAR - Love or Hate?

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Jev said:
James penalty is another example of how wrong it's used. Regardless of whether you think it's a penalty or not, it's never a clear and obvious error. If you have to spend five minutes looking at the replay, it's not nearly clear enough. Let the call stand.

It's another game day where VAR is the primary talking point. It's dreadful.
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The problem comes with how and who defines ‘clear and obvious’.

Abit like the concept of supposed free speech. Who decides the imaginary line of acceptability?

Personally I think anything subjective should not be within the remit of VAR. ie: saying ‘I think’ should not be allowed.
 
I know it will never get agreed upon but the only way that the fluidity of the game comes back is if the VAR appeals are given max twice or three times per team. A bit like cricket.

So teams or the captain of the team have to use it wisely & then the referee checks it before make it a decision.

After VAR's are over then go back to no VAR football for the rest of the match.
 
Just passing here to say two perfectly good goals which were disallowed by offside in the Brazilian league were saved by VAR.
This goal saving potential (to me the best thing about VAR) is always conveniently ommited by the haters.
 
It's awful, I hate it.

The first decision yesterday is ridiculous. It is never a penalty! Review it sure, for about 10 seconds before coming to one of 2 conclusions. A. It's not a penalty. B. It's not clear and obvious so you can't over rule the ref. If you have to watch a video for 5 minutes to make your mind up. How on earth can it be obvious?

I've said it before but there should be a time limit. 20 seconds on the review. If no decision in that time, the initial call stands.

The handball is defo a penalty so It got that one right.

It also makes me laugh all the people calling it "technology", It's a TV in a room with a man sat watching it. It's hardly teleportation or laser beams. If the man sat in the room is an idiot, corrupt, a power freak or anything else, then it still doesn't work. VAR cannot fix issues that are subjective. It will never work.
 
Hughes35 said:
It's awful, I hate it.

The first decision yesterday is ridiculous. It is never a penalty! Review it sure, for about 10 seconds before coming to one of 2 conclusions. A. It's not a penalty. B. It's not clear and obvious so you can't over rule the ref. If you have to watch a video for 5 minutes to make your mind up. How on earth can it be obvious?

I've said it before but there should be a time limit. 20 seconds on the review. If no decision in that time, the initial call stands.

The handball is defo a penalty so It got that one right.

It also makes me laugh all the people calling it "technology", It's a TV in a room with a man sat watching it. It's hardly teleportation or laser beams. If the man sat in the room is an idiot, corrupt, a power freak or anything else, then it still doesn't work. VAR cannot fix issues that are subjective. It will never work.
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VAR has never been put into to resolve the issues that are subjective, at the end of the day a human (cnut) will always be making the final decision. It has its use but backed by incompetence and referees being afraid to change their minds, it's borderline useless indeed.
 
Hughes35 said:
It's awful, I hate it.

The first decision yesterday is ridiculous. It is never a penalty! Review it sure, for about 10 seconds before coming to one of 2 conclusions. A. It's not a penalty. B. It's not clear and obvious so you can't over rule the ref. If you have to watch a video for 5 minutes to make your mind up. How on earth can it be obvious?

I've said it before but there should be a time limit. 20 seconds on the review. If no decision in that time, the initial call stands.

The handball is defo a penalty so It got that one right.

It also makes me laugh all the people calling it "technology", It's a TV in a room with a man sat watching it. It's hardly teleportation or laser beams. If the man sat in the room is an idiot, corrupt, a power freak or anything else, then it still doesn't work. VAR cannot fix issues that are subjective. It will never work.
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You can also tell the fans who don’t watch much football when they say “it’s working in other leagues, it’s just England”.

not true at all. There are controversies aplenty.
 
Best thing to happen to football in a long time. Games are so much fairer now. Hopefully they add cynical fouls punishment and what time to add next year as well.
 
Wumminator said:
You can also tell the fans who don’t watch much football when they say “it’s working in other leagues, it’s just England”.

not true at all. There are controversies aplenty.
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100% agree. I work with a Turkish guy who supports Galatasaray and he hates it even more than me (If that's possible). He showed me a disallowed goal the other day where Galatasaray scored, the goal was disallowed due to a foul in the build up. The foul was genuinely about a minute before the goal, if not more. It's a shambles worldwide.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Best thing to happen to football in a long time. Games are so much fairer now. Hopefully they add cynical fouls punishment and what time to add next year as well.
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Can only presume this is a WUM? Even as a Utd fan I know the first penalty yesterday and the Mane handball goal were not fair on the other teams.
 
the dan james one was never a pen. i had the sound off on my stream as the in-laws were visiting but i was genuinely shocked when it was awarded, even now i can't really see what it was given for, james didn't have the ball at his feet and it's a shoulder to shoulder challenge that neither win, if anything james was more aggressive in his charge than the norwich player. having said all that though it was the delay that was most annoying, took an absolute age which for me was a clear indication that no one was sure either way and as such the refs original decision should've stood.

think the handball one was a pen and i'm glad these are being picked up now, John Terry used to make 5-6 saves a season jumping around with his arms in the air, and got away with everytime, the players know exactly what they're doing in those situations.
 
Bebestation said:
I know it will never get agreed upon but the only way that the fluidity of the game comes back is if the VAR appeals are given max twice or three times per team. A bit like cricket.

So teams or the captain of the team have to use it wisely & then the referee checks it before make it a decision.

After VAR's are over then go back to no VAR football for the rest of the match.
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That's a terrible idea... e.g last minute clear penalty not given and you've run out of appeals
 
One only needs to rewind the clock to last year and the vitriol was all aimed at the substandard level of refereeing in the Premier League; I don’t want a return to those days either. It’s still new technology, the use of which will improve over time. I am definitely for sticking with it.
 
Red_Aaron said:
the dan james one was never a pen. i had the sound off on my stream as the in-laws were visiting but i was genuinely shocked when it was awarded, even now i can't really see what it was given for, james didn't have the ball at his feet and it's a shoulder to shoulder challenge that neither win, if anything james was more aggressive in his charge than the norwich player. having said all that though it was the delay that was most annoying, took an absolute age which for me was a clear indication that no one was sure either way and as such the refs original decision should've stood...
.
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Even so, I had absolutely no doubt that a Penalty was going to be awarded.
VAR just doesn't have the common sense and makes decisions in black & white, football isn't always that clear cut.
 
Shipperley said:
One only needs to rewind the clock to last year and the vitriol was all aimed at the substandard level of refereeing in the Premier League; I don’t want a return to those days either. It’s still new technology, the use of which will improve over time. I am definitely for sticking with it.
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Again, its not technology, or atleast new technology. Replays have been around for decades and that’s all var is.

An additional ref with a replay, not groundbreaking tech
 
That Chambers VAR decision yesterday is an absolute disgrace. Its not even about the fact that Arsenal didn't get 3 points, which is always welcome.

If that had happened to us at 2-2 at OT, we would be going mental.
 
So now we've gone from having a "high bar" that prevented VAR from overturning decisions on penalties to having three non-penalty decisions overturned in the space of a single weekend, which means the last two rounds of Premier League games we've just watched were played with entirely different rules. It's not the technology that's the problem - frankly I think it has the potential to be absolutely brilliant - it's just the idiots running it. There has to be a middle ground between where VAR was even four days ago and where it is now, post-Brighton vs. Everton, but instead those with the power to make this easy seem to be more interested in making it as complicated as possible. La Liga don't have this many issues, Serie A don't have this many issues, it's always just us.

Just apply a bit of common sense when it comes to making big decisions, bring in an appeals process like they have in cricket, and make it clearer to those watching in the stadium that there's a review under way and what the review is looking at. I also think we should start putting a time limit on these decisions as well. For example, if a clear decision can't be made within a minute of the review being called then the review is ended and the on-field call stands. But if they bring all of this in now then it means the first 9 games of the season will have been refereed differently to the last 29, so we're going to have to wait until next season until they sort this out. I'd forgive them these "teething problems" if they weren't so bloody obvious before VAR even came to the Premier League.
 
The thing people seem to be missing is when VAR is working correctly it will function more like it did this weekend, i.e. play will continue and more goals will be scored then overturned, and more penalties will not be given initially then brought back. People need to stop viewing this through the spectre of VAR overturning the referee’s decisions. In a lot of cases where the referee has any doubt, he is simply taking the option that lets the game flow and can be undone with minimal complication. The benefit of doubt is to be given to keeping the game continuing as the decision can always be reviewed.

A good example is the Arsenal goal at OT this season, where although the linesman flagged, the referee kept the game going and Arsenal scored a goal that otherwise would have been incorrectly ruled out.

I’m glad the farce of the “high bar” has seemingly gone now as VAR was never going to deliver its expected benefits with such usage. You couldn’t possibly referee in a manner that prefers to keep the game flowing, yet is then paralysed by fear to make the actual correct decision with greater evidence.
 
I don't like it, I'd be quite happy if they scrapped it altogether. Checking every single goal is just monotonous and it ruins that raw emotion for fans.
 
Amazed how far Krul was off his line at the Rashford penalty. If VAR cant see that - he's like a meter or more off his line before the kick. Im starting to think they were out for coffee at the time. Wasn't a penalty neither, but two wrongs, dont make it right.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Amazed how far Krul was off his line at the Rashford penalty. If VAR cant see that - he's like a meter or more off his line before the kick. Im starting to think they were out for coffee at the time. Wasn't a penalty neither, but two wrongs, dont make it right.
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VAR doesnt check for that.
Clear and obvious has fried a few pundits heads. The fact is we dont know what the referee has seen so we dont know when clear and obvious is applied.
 
cyberman said:
VAR doesnt check for that.
Clear and obvious has fried a few pundits heads. The fact is we dont know what the referee has seen so we dont know when clear and obvious is applied.
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Yes they do and are supposed to. It was posted in the thread earlier too with a link. iFAB has called out the different FAs to follow through and correct these errors, so every country rules the same
 
ROFLUTION said:
Yes they do and are supposed to. It was posted in the thread earlier too with a link. iFAB has called out the different FAs to follow through and correct these errors, so every country rules the same
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But England doesnt. It might be changed but keepers coming off their line isnt currently reviewed. Yesterday is a prime example
 
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Ditching the "high threshold" is a step in the right direction, because not awarding a single penalty or red card in 90 games is blatantly wrong.

The next step is letting the referees use the monitors that have been left to rot at the side of the pitch in the PL. It ain't rocket science, it's what other leagues do. In the past I would have said it wasn't neccesary but now I think it is.

VAR's job shouldn't be to decide whether tight & subjective decisions were right or wrong when there isn't a right or wrong answer. It should be to refer them back to the referee so he can make the best possible subjective decision. That way VAR is doing its job regardless of the outcome of the decision, one person's subjective opinion isn't over-ruling another person's subjective decision and if a bad decision is made the responsibility lies with the referee as before.

The Bundesliga tried not using the pitchside monitors but the idea failed and they reversed their decision. How long before the PL come to the same conclusion?
 
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All the premier league need to do, is copy the other leagues using VAR.

There are a few posts in this thread suggesting the situation is the same in other leagues. Totally wrong from my experience.

The really simple issue in the premier league is they're not letting the referees review their own decisions. No chance the referee gives the James penalty or chalks off the Arsenal winner if they simply view it themselves on the monitors. Riley needs to be sacked, surely?

In fact those are probably the worst two decisions I can remember, since the Utd Palace game earlier this season anyway :lol:.

What a season, total insanity.
 
Still can't believe that over 50% "loves VAR". The discussion seems to be about individual decisions and how they were interpreted, which makes one wonder what the point is? We had these discussions about unfair decisions before VAR and we have them with VAR implemented.

And in the meantime, the experience as a TV viewer or matchgoing fan is so much worse. Could not be arsed to celebrate any of our goals yesterday. Fully expecting to have a two minute review of each and every one. Football is not an exact science, get rid of VAR now!!!
 
Mb194dc said:
All the premier league need to do, is copy the other leagues using VAR.

There are a few posts in this thread suggesting the situation is the same in other leagues. Totally wrong from my experience.

The really simple issue in the premier league is they're not letting the referees review their own decisions. No chance the referee gives the James penalty or chalks off the Arsenal winner if they simply view it themselves on the monitors. Riley needs to be sacked, surely?

In fact those are probably the worst two decisions I can remember, since the Utd Palace game earlier this season anyway :lol:.

What a season, total insanity.
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Agreed. I'm more than happy to criticise VAR on some points and there are some issues that will likely never be resolved but the idea that the situation in the PL is the same as other leagues is demonstrably untrue.
 
sullydnl said:
Agreed. I'm more than happy to criticise VAR on some points and there are some issues that will likely never be resolved but the idea that the situation in the PL is the same as other leagues is demonstrably untrue.
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As is the statement, "its working fine" in other leagues.

PL fecked up so bad on VAR that it makes other leagues better, but not in anyway or form, "fine".
 
bleedred said:
As is the statement, "its working fine" in other leagues.

PL fecked up so bad on VAR that it makes other leagues better, but not in anyway or form, "fine".
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Actually, one is a matter of opinion e.g. "I think VAR works fine in England", the other is demonstrably untrue i.e. just look at the differences in the rules surrounding VAR.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Amazed how far Krul was off his line at the Rashford penalty. If VAR cant see that - he's like a meter or more off his line before the kick. Im starting to think they were out for coffee at the time. Wasn't a penalty neither, but two wrongs, dont make it right.
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There's no rhyme or reason to it!

VAR doesn't penalize keepers being off their line, but it does penalize players that encroach the area? Aguero missed a penalty against West Ham, but VAR ruled that Rice had encroached so it had to be retaken?
 
I don't understand why they didn't just test it in FA Cup and League Cup games for a few years first?

My first experience of it was the Liverpool defeat to West Brom in the cup at Anfield and it was horrendous. Its terrible for the match going fans who have no idea whats going on!

If anyone on here watches rugby, the way they do it there seems to be so much better?
 


Would be an improvement. Though it would be quite telling if the two pillars of the PL's approach to VAR (the high threshold and refs not using the monitors) are being abandoned by November.
 
sullydnl said:


Would be an improvement. Though it would be quite telling if the two pillars of the PL's approach to VAR (the high threshold and refs not using the monitors) are being abandoned by November.
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That would make this season a sham already. You can not abandon it half way through.
 
sullydnl said:


Would be an improvement. Though it would be quite telling if the two pillars of the PL's approach to VAR (the high threshold and refs not using the monitors) are being abandoned by November.
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Refs seem to check everytime theres an appeal, this needs to be limited before the ref has to run off to the side before every corner.
I thought players couldnt appeal for VAR but here we are
 
sullydnl said:


Would be an improvement. Though it would be quite telling if the two pillars of the PL's approach to VAR (the high threshold and refs not using the monitors) are being abandoned by November.
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VAR in the PL been laughably awful...

So wouldn't be a surprise.

If they can competently copy the other leagues very easy to fix.

Probably a big if :lol:...

Riley going to go, surely?
 
Wumminator said:
That would make this season a sham already. You can not abandon it half way through.
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Whether one is pro-VAR or anti-VAR, we should all be able to agree that it is a sham already. There's no getting around that.

The high threshold was already jettisoned this weekend so it isn't at all surprising to me that they're looking to change this too.
 
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