German Football 23/24 |

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They should do that for the fun of it alone. I'm sure in special cases exceptions could be found, too. For example there's the case of legendary Leverkusen and Germany forward Paolo Rink.

Also the new rules state that a three year stay is sufficient if someone has shown remarkable signs of integration.
 
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Zehner said:
Ah, that's unfortunate
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do.ob said:
They should do that for the fun of it alone. I'm sure in special cases exceptions could be found, too. For example there's the case of legendary Leverkusen and Germany forward Paolo Rink.

Also the new rules state that a three year stay is sufficient if someone has shown remarkable signs of integration.
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For what it is worth, I do not see Frimpong staying at Leverkusen and in Germany beyond this season anyway, and I am not sure moving to Manchester would count as a remarkable sign of integration.
What is also unfortunate is that the DFB dropped the ball on Stanisic, who is an excellent, if very different, right back in his own right.
 
FortunaUtd said:
For what it is worth, I do not see Frimpong staying at Leverkusen and in Germany beyond this season anyway, and I am not sure moving to Manchester would count as a remarkable sign of integration.
What is also unfortunate is that the DFB dropped the ball on Stanisic, who is an excellent, if very different, right back in his own right.
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I doubt anyone seriously thinks about Frimpong. It's just a funny thought to imagine that he'd be so pissed off by Koeman that he'd switch countries.
 
do.ob said:
I doubt anyone seriously thinks about Frimpong. It's just a funny thought to imagine that he'd be so pissed off by Koeman that he'd switch countries.
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He would be very welcome of course! The more the merrier, even if the AfD disagrees.
 
do.ob said:
I doubt anyone seriously thinks about Frimpong. It's just a funny thought to imagine that he'd be so pissed off by Koeman that he'd switch countries.
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Exactly! I'd also love to see @KirkDuyt's reaction ;)
 
Zehner said:
Exactly! I'd also love to see @KirkDuyt's reaction ;)
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He's weirdly being ignored by Koeman. Rumours are it's because he doesn't speak Dutch. Dumfries almost always does well for Oranje though, so don't see him starting anyway.

He's not switching though, he said as much last week.
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's weirdly being ignored by Koeman. Rumours are it's because he doesn't speak Dutch. Dumfries almost always does well for Oranje though, so don't see him starting anyway.

He's not switching though, he said as much last week.
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Like most Dutch people he probably secretly longs to be German, but can't admit it in public. From time to time that desire still slips through though, like when one of them puts down their location as Dutchland on an online forum.
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's weirdly being ignored by Koeman. Rumours are it's because he doesn't speak Dutch. Dumfries almost always does well for Oranje though, so don't see him starting anyway.

He's not switching though, he said as much last week.
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He doesn't? Isn't he a native Amsterdammer?
 
FortunaUtd said:
He doesn't? Isn't he a native Amsterdammer?
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He once said that his Dutch is still bad but he'd learn it if he was nominated for the Netherlands so I assume he's not very fluent at best.
 
do.ob said:
Like most Dutch people he probably secretly longs to be German, but can't admit it in public. From time to time that desire still slips through though, like when one of them puts down their location as Dutchland on an online forum.
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Our national Anthem starts with our king declaring he's German, so yes, we are an Berliner.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Our national Anthem starts with our king declaring he's German, so yes, we are an Berliner.
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Fascinating, sounds like a bit of an unorthodox opener for a national anthem though, doesn't it?
 
do.ob said:
Fascinating, sounds like a bit of an unorthodox opener for a national anthem though, doesn't it?
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Well, William of Orange was mostly a German I think, so not really.

The 4th line is about how much we love the king of Spain, so it's a bit shite overall really.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Well, William of Orange was mostly a German I think, so not really.

The 4th line is about how much we love the king of Spain, so it's a bit shite overall really.
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Somehow it sounds like a perfect text for the EU era, where national borders (again) become less important.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Well, William of Orange was mostly a German I think, so not really.

The 4th line is about how much we love the king of Spain, so it's a bit shite overall really.
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'van Duytschen bloedt' didn't mean then what it means now (it basically means Dutch, even if Wilhelm did get born in Dzermany), but yes, it's bizarre now. :)

That other bit is just about angling for a transfer to Barça, nothing new there.
 
Cheimoon said:
'van Duytschen bloedt' didn't mean then what it means now (it basically means Dutch, even if Wilhelm did get born in Dzermany), but yes, it's bizarre now. :)

That other bit is just about angling for a transfer to Barça, nothing new there.
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I imagine it must be great, every time the anthem plays you can imagine you're German, even if it's only for a second.
 
do.ob said:
I imagine it must be great, every time the anthem plays you can imagine you're German, even if it's only for a second.
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And Spanish a little later. I suppose that's why people sign along so loudly.

It's a good tune actually, for an anthem anyway, and it really segues nicely into a general stadium cheer (half the purpose, right?). But yeah, that text. Let say it's no O Canada.
 
Interesting...it's as if a coach is only as good as their players and Germany has not produced quality players in a few Euros cycles now.

I understand that some players are lacking confidence in a Germany shirt, but they just don't have enough quality and characters.

GK union is 30 years or older. Defenders...Rudiger is the best defender, maybe? When their most talented player is Musiala and they're really dependent on the likes of Havertz, Sane, Gnabry....yikes. lots of good solid talents but they've never hit the heights we're accustomed to see from past German teams, which is their standard. Wasn't too long ago they were competing for the highest European troho
 
Hans van Duytschen bloedt is no longer in charge.
 
Cheimoon said:
'van Duytschen bloedt' didn't mean then what it means now (it basically means Dutch, even if Wilhelm did get born in Dzermany), but yes, it's bizarre now. :)

That other bit is just about angling for a transfer to Barça, nothing new there.
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Well Dutch is basically the same word as Deutsch and has the same meaning. Just shows how closely related the two countries and languages are I guess.
 
stefan92 said:
Well Dutch is basically the same word as Deutsch and has the same meaning. Just shows how closely related the two countries and languages are I guess.
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I think it originally meant something like 'the people' - as in fact many ethnonyms do. ('Allamanni' is a great example, and of course led to French 'Allemagne'.) It was previously in use in English for both countries as well. Or at least, Gulliver's Travels at some point refers to Low Dutch (the Netherlands) and High Dutch (Germany).

(Yeah yeah, that's geographically high and low...)

Sorry to make this serious. (Sorry-not-sorry: languages are always a great cause for serious talk. :wenger: )
 
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Cheimoon said:
I think it originally meant something like 'the people' - as in fact many ethnonyms do. ('Allamanni' is a great example, and of course led to France Allemagne.) It was previously in use in English for both countries as well. Or at least, Gulliver's Travels at some point refers to Low Dutch (the Netherlands) and High Dutch (Germany).

(Yeah yeah, that's geographically high and low...)

Sorry to make this serious. (Sorry-not-sorry: languages are always a great cause for serious talk. :wenger: )
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Don't be sorry. While serious this is also much more lighthearted than any discussion of German football could be.

And living close to the border I really like highlighting how close we actually can be in our everyday lives.
 
edcunited1878 said:
Interesting...it's as if a coach is only as good as their players and Germany has not produced quality players in a few Euros cycles now.

I understand that some players are lacking confidence in a Germany shirt, but they just don't have enough quality and characters.

GK union is 30 years or older. Defenders...Rudiger is the best defender, maybe? When their most talented player is Musiala and they're really dependent on the likes of Havertz, Sane, Gnabry....yikes. lots of good solid talents but they've never hit the heights we're accustomed to see from past German teams, which is their standard. Wasn't too long ago they were competing for the highest European troho
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The quality of Germany's players surely is debatable but that they are comfortably better than Japan that primarily consists of average to decent Bundesliga players isn't, IMO. If somebody like Asano looks better than Gnabry, something is going wrong. Even Kamada who is probably one of if not.the best Japanese player would have a hard time making the German squad.

Rüdiger, Gündogan, Kimmich, Musiala and Wirtz are undeniably class acts while Schlotterbeck, Havertz, Can, Thiaw, Gnabry, Goretzka, Hofmann and Sané have proven that they at least have the necessary level in them. This is a genuinely good team on an individual level.
 
Cheimoon said:
'van Duytschen bloedt' didn't mean then what it means now (it basically means Dutch, even if Wilhelm did get born in Dzermany), but yes, it's bizarre now. :)

That other bit is just about angling for a transfer to Barça, nothing new there.
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Yeah and we thought the muppets here are bad. William's transfer saga lasted for 80 years.

I actually knew it doesn't mean that and was fearing I'd get called out by you when posting it :wenger:
 
KirkDuyt said:
Yeah and we thought the muppets here are bad. William's transfer saga lasted for 80 years.

I actually knew it doesn't mean that and was fearing I'd get called out by you when posting it :wenger:
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I don't call out, I correct pedantically.

QED.
 
do.ob said:
I imagine it must be great, every time the anthem plays you can imagine you're German, even if it's only for a second.
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You're laughing now, but I've heard rumours you lot are considering Van Gaal as Flick's successor.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Yes the classic Dutch newspaper Bild Zeitung!
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I wasn't aware they had a Dutch edition, but at this point they are probably just throwing random names around for click bait.
 
do.ob said:
I wasn't aware they had a Dutch edition, but at this point they are probably just throwing random names around for click bait.
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I would love to see a repeat of that 2010 Van Gaal speech at Bayern.
 


Isn't there a deal to be found where the DFB "loans" Nagelsmann for the EC and Bayern get to save his wages. Especially if he convinces them that he's not that interested in taking over a club mid-season?

Since I wouldn't expect him to be interested in staying on beyond the summer anyway the DFB could hardly justify paying him out of his contract.
 
Zehner said:
The quality of Germany's players surely is debatable but that they are comfortably better than Japan that primarily consists of average to decent Bundesliga players isn't, IMO. If somebody like Asano looks better than Gnabry, something is going wrong. Even Kamada who is probably one of if not.the best Japanese player would have a hard time making the German squad.

Rüdiger, Gündogan, Kimmich, Musiala and Wirtz are undeniably class acts while Schlotterbeck, Havertz, Can, Thiaw, Gnabry, Goretzka, Hofmann and Sané have proven that they at least have the necessary level in them. This is a genuinely good team on an individual level.
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Well we saw how Germany performed individually and as a team during the previous WC and Euros.

And this was a friendly that was a 1 goal difference until the 90th+ minute.

My point still stands...Germany hasn't produced good enough players for recent managers to put out a truly competitive German side.

Sane, Musiala, Gnabry should start for Germany, but the other 3 players as part of a midfield or a CF provides a situation where it is unbalanced and genuinely zero CF as a focal point.

A Can, Kimmich, Gundogan midfield trio...that's nice but not really that good when they are playing for Germany compared to previous German midfield combos/trios.
 
do.ob said:


Isn't there a deal to be found where the DFB "loans" Nagelsmann for the EC and Bayern get to save his wages. Especially if he convinces them that he's not that interested in taking over a club mid-season?

Since I wouldn't expect him to be interested in staying on beyond the summer anyway the DFB could hardly justify paying him out of his contract.
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Not sure what Bayern is trying to do here. No club will be paying an eight figure sum for a sacked coach with Nagelsmann's vita, even less so the DFB. That much should have been clear when they sacked him.


edcunited1878 said:
Well we saw how Germany performed individually and as a team during the previous WC and Euros.

And this was a friendly that was a 1 goal difference until the 90th+ minute.

My point still stands...Germany hasn't produced good enough players for recent managers to put out a truly competitive German side.

Sane, Musiala, Gnabry should start for Germany, but the other 3 players as part of a midfield or a CF provides a situation where it is unbalanced and genuinely zero CF as a focal point.

A Can, Kimmich, Gundogan midfield trio...that's nice but not really that good when they are playing for Germany compared to previous German midfield combos/trios.
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No offense but I think this is not a very educated take. Think of them what you want but it is undeniable that most players perform much better at club level than for German and that alone sheds a very bad light on Flick and Löw.

Regarding the player quality: IMO, the team lacks quality in ST, LB, RB and CDM. The remaining positions are excellent. In a 3-4-3, you have no CDM, no LB and no RB. And it would be a perfect structure for a possession oriented, technically gifted team - and with Kimmich, Gündogan, Wirtz, Musiala and Brandt, Germany could field one of the most technically gifted midfields in the world alongside Spain. What's missing is a proper striker but most nations know this problem. The problem is that Flick prefers playing an all out pressing oriented system that suits only very few of his players.

I also think you severely underestimate a few of our players. Wirtz is on the same level as Musiala, Brandt has reached an insanely high level over the last two years, Hofmann (59 scorers in his last 84 bundesliga matches) is an excellent attacker and team player with great work ethic, Schlotterbeck wasn't much worse than Gvardiol over the last two years at a similar age, etc. You seem to see Gnabry and Sané as clear starters, I don't personally. Maybe Gnabry as a desperate option as a 9 if Havertz and Füllkrug don't perform.
 
Zehner said:
Not sure what Bayern is trying to do here. No club will be paying an eight figure sum for a sacked coach with Nagelsmann's vita, even less so the DFB. That much should have been clear when they sacked him.
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Yep, they should let him go for free, if he wishes to do so. Just get him of the wage bill.
 
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