Well that's it , lackluster game but refreshing to see bayern struggle.
German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke
- Thread starter do.ob
- Start date
Always get the impression Bayern struggle after the winter break. Didn't it used to be longer than this?
Yes. Last year there was no proper winter break because of the belated start to the season. This year there isn't a proper one as apparently there's some extra international window at the end of January or so that had to be inserted into the FIFA calendar as some confederation (South America?) hasn't played their qualifiers yet? Not sure if I read that right.
Definitely something off at the end of January. No PL games. F.A. Cup 4th round is 5/6 February.
Bayern won their last 7 first games after the winter break. They had only 10 senior players Abzocke available thanks to corona.
Nevertheless, they had more than enough chances to easily win that match. They missed several clear cut chances plus hit the post and crossbar.
Nevertheless, they had more than enough chances to easily win that match. They missed several clear cut chances plus hit the post and crossbar.
At least it makes sense to have it during the AFCON as by definition players at the AFCON aren't going to be involved in COMNEBOL qualifiers
Well, FC Bayern didn’t really have any huge chances in the second half and didn’t build a momentum at all. Lewandowski had a weak shot straight at Sommer, that was about it. Tons of bad shots from outside the box. On the other hand, Gladbach had several counters they messed up to kill the game. Saying that, the game obviously should have been called off when a 16 year old is subbed on to charge the game
Wanner looked great for his age. Really calm and collected out there.
Between the 50 and 65 min Bayern had several clear cut chances. Müller alone in front of Sommer, Lewandowski on the crossbar, Musiala also free shot.
More than enough.
Once Nagelsmann subbed in the 2 16 year old the game was over of course.
Shouldn't have given the game away after controlling it in the first place. Should have added a couple of goals after the 1-0 and then the 16 year old sub would have been a nice, natural thing to do. It's not down to covid we gave it away.
Now as usual Gladbach can lose again!
Gladbach leveled from out of nowhere with their first shot on goal. 4 min later they got the lead with a corner. This shouldn't happen but can happen and had nothing to do with corona.
However corona had a severe impact that Nagelsmann couldn't sub any senior players when a lot of players, who didn't play for 8 to 10 weeks and just back from inquiry or sickness, were tired.
Union Berlin have a pretty defensive style. They only got promoted to the 1. Bundesliga in 2019, got to 7th last year (and got a spot in the UEFA Conference League out of it), and are currently again in 7th (which is currently only two points off third).
Augsburg Freiburg Union
Freiburg is more Brighton than Burnley
So it does work , i wonder why its not as prevalent as the hyper attacking style that everyone's got there.
Aside from Augsburg the other 2 have a decent position on the table so the success rate is ok it seems .
Freiburg's style of play surely can't be compared with Burnley.
So who do you think best suits the description?
I'd hardly call "everyone" "hyper attacking". But what's the point in playing negative football, unless you're just desperate to somehow stay in the league? Being positive and progressive is just better for business and the fans demand it, too, at most clubs.
To add flavor , it'll be boring if every single team played with the same style.
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Wonder if the notion that the Bundesliga is hyper attacking has ever been backed up with stats other than "the former Dortmund players signed by United score less than in the Bundesliga"?
Does anybody have a goals per minute comparison of leagues or something similar?
Does anybody have a goals per minute comparison of leagues or something similar?
Last years average for Bundesliga was 3.03 goals per match while it being 2.69 for prem.
Definitely higher, also there is the eye test which seems to corroborate that sentiment.
Edit: I went further back and it seems that Bundesliga's average has slowly increased hitting the peak of 3.21 while prem hovers around 2.7 hitting the peak of 2.82 and the low of 2.5 ( that's only counting this decade).
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Nice, thanks! So roughly an increase of 10%. That's not much.
Not asking you to do it and to be honest I'm not bothered enough to do it myself either but to really draw a conclusion further data sets would be interesting:
- What's the goal average in the league in cohorts (champion, CL participants, EL participants, mid table, low table, relegates)? Because if the bottom teams simply score more against each other and the difference in average goals is made up by that, this shouldn't inflate the goal output of a player playing for Leverkusen, Leipzig, Gladbach or Dortmund
- What's the goal average of German/English teams in international tournaments? Because there's also the possibility that German teams on average are simply better at attacking but not worse in defending relative to the strength of the league itself
Out of interest, where did you get the data from?
Not meaning to be funny, I actually think that Burnley wouldn't be able to stay up in Bundesliga the way they're playing (and anyway they're about to get relegated from the PL too). Just as Bundesliga teams would have an even worse record against Bayern if they all just sat back.
Ah I might take a deeper look for comparison's sake if I found the time for it , may be interesting.
The leagues document the number of goals and then divided by the number of the games , there are spreadsheets and also you can just check the wifi page of that specific season. For examp 2019/20 Bundesliga had the average of 3.21 compared to prems 2.71 and ucl's average of 3.24 ( a bit skewed do to the nature of that season and one legged knockouts though not substantial)
There definitely is a trend of increasing averages though not necessarily by noticeable margins, for example serie a had lower bound of 2.2 during the 90s with that increasing to be around 2.7 exceeding 3 at times
There is also this Spreadsheet showcasing England's first division average for every season and it fluctuates a lot especially during the 60s and 70s
This guy on reddit has some interesting posts using data, this one on goalies suggest Bundesliga teams play higher lines, leading to it being less defensive (though eye test could tell you that)
Data from https://fbref.com/
I don't know about Bundesliga as a whole, but Dortmund definitely score a lot of goals. I remember when I compared Grealish and Sancho for I think the 19/20 season, Grealish had like 7 league goals for Villa and Sancho like 15. But Villa who were a mid table team at the time, scored about 50 goals in 38 games, whereas Dortmund scored something like 90 goals in 34 games.
Just had a quick look since you can get league goals scored from league tables, Dortmund's last 5 seasons are 75, 84, 81, 64, 72. An average of 75.
Which just from a quick glance at PL tables over the last 5 years, is a decent bit higher than all PL teams except City and Liverpool. United are averaging at around 65 goals scored a season. Which of course you if account for Dortmund's 4 fewer games per season, if you add those extra games on Dortmund would be averaging around 85 goals scored a season. So Dortmund over the last 5 years score about 30% more goals per game in the league than United.
I did in general from watching Sancho quite a bit think he'd average closer to 10 goals a season with us, especially with the more compact defences we face. Which at around 30% less than his 16 ish goals a season at Dortmund would equal around 10 goals. He has been pretty poor this season in general, though our team has been playing like they're coming off of a permanent hangover. Not particularly helped by a lot of the English players being especially subpar, probably due to fatigue from the Euros run in the summer. We're not even on target to score 60 goals in the league this season.
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Nice find , that's more elaborate than anything I can come up with. Also Jesus de gea's numbers are insane and pretty damning of how our defense has operated this season.
Yeah I think also the eye test of the last seasons would confirm that defenses in Bundesliga tend to play higher than in the PL, of course meaning much tighter spaces and higher pressure in midfield.
In most of the games, players in the PL have more time and space on the ball in midfield.
In most of the games, players in the PL have more time and space on the ball in midfield.
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I knew that Riemann has a good season, but I still did not expect him to stand out so much, being in the top right corner here.
The weird thing about Riemann is that he's 33 years old already, a bit late to realize that he can actually perform on a really high level.
That only matters to people who follow the league as a whole though; each individual clubs and its fan won't give a rat's ass about the league's overall diversity of play, they just want their team to do well and be fun to watch.
Besides that, I think football culture factors into this as well. In the Netherlands, for example, defensive football is strongly frowned upon. The only way a coach can get away with it at any level, is if they're successful. (I.e., punching above your weight; not every team is expected to win trophies, of course.) If you're playing defensive and not achieving more (or worse, achieve less) than what any coach would, fan and media pressure will rise very quickly and you won't last long. Even Van Gaal in 2014 in Brazil received heavy criticism throughout the tournament because of his play style, even though the Netherlands reached the semis.
In England, however, I get the impression it's almost the other way around. Defensive security is highly valued and the idea that football must be entertainment isn't as strong; and so as far as I can tell, there is more criticism of the likes of Leeds for playing too openly (even though they had a super safe finish last year for a newly promoted team) than of the likes of Burnley for playing boringly (while generally camping in the bottom half of the table).
My impression is that Germany is more with the Netherlands in this, although of course the details vary.
Lovely finish from a tight angle by Schick. 1-0 to Leverkusen against Berlin.
The Sky commentator is praising Hradecky for his efforts, but arguably the first shot wasn't that well placed and he shouldn't have parried it to the center!?
I don't know if I would describe it as attacking vs defensive. I think it's more that people expect to see a philosophy and a cohesive team, that follows a plan with and without the ball, which gives you the feeling that there is something that can be developed. If you just sit deep and hoof it that obviously won't impress anyone, but if it seems like you're drawing in teams to methodically exploit the space they leave behind with well coordinated counter attacks, then I don't think people will object on principle.
I don't know if I would describe it as attacking vs defensive. I think it's more that people expect to see a philosophy and a cohesive team, that follows a plan with and without the ball, which gives you the feeling that there is something that can be developed. If you just sit deep and hoof it that obviously won't impress anyone, but if it seems like you're drawing in teams to methodically exploit the space they leave behind with well coordinated counter attacks, then I don't think people will object on principle.
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From the table position of Burnley vs a Brighton do you think its a working strategy?
Yea my thought exactly. The second save was fantastic but he wouldn't have needed to make it had he parried the ball out of the box.
New year, same old Leverkusen. 
Ricardo Brady to save the day?
Frank Buschmann is the absolute worst
Pepi about to make his debut. Still have no idea what he is doing in Augsburg but good luck to him.
He's like Wolf Fuss, when they started out they were a fresh breeze compared to the old guard, but they are trying so hard to be clever/funny that it's like a caricature. They forget that people tune in to watch football, not to hear their routine..