Actually I think it really is a bit surprising that he rejected Tottenham. Still a bigger and richer club than Leipzig with a better squad I'd say. And he's a native English speaker. Didn't know they were in until now
German Football 20/21
- Thread starter do.ob
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Actually I think it really is a bit surprising that he rejected Tottenham. Still a bigger and richer club than Leipzig with a better squad I'd say. And he's a native English speaker. Didn't know they were in until now
His employer probably told him to go to Leipzig. „Look, we promote you from franchise manager to regional manager.“
He probably figured it's the easiest way to become Bayern coach in 2 years "for a really low fee".
His employer probably told him to go to Leipzig. „Look, we promote you from franchise manager to regional manager.“
After being assistant to the regional manager under Rangnick it was probably a dream come true.
He probably figured it's the easiest way to become Bayern coach in 2 years "for a really low fee".
That would be awesome. If Bayern sacks Nagelsmann after less than two years in spite of the fee, it means he will have fecked up completely
How/why did Stuttgart go from being competitive 15-20 years ago to being shit?
They seem like a sleeping giant - great stadium, magnificent city/attraction, surely have some money.
They seem like a sleeping giant - great stadium, magnificent city/attraction, surely have some money.
The normal amount of incompetence/ amateurism but not on a „we are totally fecked up like Schalke/HSV“ level.
On paper Hamburg, Frankfurt, Schalke and Stuttgart should be mainstays in the CL/EL spots.
No, they never had money...that was one of their biggest problems. Those succesful years in the early 2000s were due to an incredible amount of strong youth players that ended up carrying the team. The two guys responsible for their youth program left to Leipzig in 2012 and that was the beginning of the end. And as Acrobat said, lots of incompetent people in key positions.
After tough negotiations Leipzig finally got their man.
fecking Bayern going after their rivals again!
Regardless of how Marsch ended up at Leipzig, this is still a major development for North American football. Leipzig under him should be fun; they may not be as tactically flexible as Nagelsmann's team was, but his teams are way more aggressive and direct.
Aside from the milestone aspect, how will it help the sport in NA? Like if I was to ask myself who made them Marsch's nationality might as well be Red Bull, just like Materazzo might as well be German. I don't think any DoF is going to think: "well, maybe MLS coaches are worth a shot", because of him.
And tactically I think very direct approaches are fine for cup competitions, especially against better teams, but since that's basically Bundesliga's trademark style most teams (relatively speaking) know very well how to deal with it. If you want to have a hope at keeping up with the top I think you need to know when to and how to play with some patience.
Not sold on Gulasci because he isn't the elite level keeper, though he is an ever so slight upgrade on Burki. Nor is he young that you can say he has room for improvement.
From the small matches I remember of Kobel, he has been good. Would definitely watch highlights he if does get signed.
Look at Leipzig‘s PR department tagging Bayern München to get some reach.
Cramming Bayern in that tweet does feel a bit forced
They also came up with "#Z1ELBERLIN", such a heart warming football fairlytale.
I think Gulasci has been Bundesliga's second best goal keeper (sometimes tied with Sommer) for many years now, he's reliable, has a relatively complete profile and is experienced. With his ~€10m release clause he looks like a no-brainer to me, as long as his wage demands aren't out of this world of course. Kobel is on the other end of the spectrum. Playing his first real Bundesliga season and doing consistently well. He would also make a lot of sense, but he'd probably be more expensive and given his relative lack of experience a much bigger risk on paper. I think Dortmund desperately need someone reliable in goal, Bürki and Hitz give up an unnecessary goal almost once a game, they aren't the only reason why Dortmund's season has been disappointing, but with someone reliable at the back top four would be already locked in.
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Tottenham won't qualify for the CL, has not really any money to spent and might lose Kane and/or Son. The expectations at Tottenham are currently higher than their squad quality so I'd argue it's a thankless job for anyone.
I admit that there are also quite a few question marks at RBL in regards to the squad but it's still an easier environment overall.
Yeah I can see the argument for Gulacsi at that price point, although it's not a very exciting signing maybe. Sommer's excellent but at times I feel he looks better than he is, simply because he's fairly short for a goalkeeper. So some saves look spectacular that other keepers could save more routinely, while other shots look unsaveable when a taller keeper might be able to reach them. Am I wrong there?
I haven't paid to attention to Kobel, but I've been pretty impressed with Bielefeld's Ortega the few times I watched him. Looks pretty solid.
I mean I totally understand why he chose Leipzig, it's definitely the secure choice. But Tottenham would've been the more ambitious one, so I'd have expected him to got here if the option was really on the table. The possibility of losing Kane and Son is definitely an argument against but then again the squad still has more quality without those two than Leipzig has and Tottenham can generally attract a higher tier of players than Leipzig.
On a side note, Marsch picking Leipzig over Tottenham has decreased our own chances of signing Ten Hag I fear who would be my number one choice as the next Leverkusen head coach. Anyway, I'd be happy with Werner or Seoane, too.
I mean I think it's near impossible to objectively judge goal keepers of clubs you don't watch really frequently. But Sommer had excellent post shot xG stats to back up the hype. At least in the last two season, this year it's the opposite and given his age I think other clubs should stay clear of him.
Ortega has impressed me whenever I've watched Bielefeld, in particular he looked like a proper killer in 1on1s and very confident with the ball at his feet. But there is probably a reason why he's playing for Bielefeld in his late 20s and why he's positively throwing himself at Bayern to be their no2. He might be one for Gladbach or Leverkusen to take a punt at, given they need new keepers (assuming this isn't just a blip for Sommer) almost as badly as Dortmund, but probably can't afford Gulasci or Kobel.
Yeah true, I was surprised Ortega is already 28 and spent most of his career with Arminia. On the other hand, the keeper position might be the most difficult position to break through? After all most clubs don't rotate, or change their keeper unless really necessary. Could have flown under the radar, or only stepped up his game now.
I wouldn't blame him for wanting to be Bayern's No.2. I don't know how much he earns currently, but I doubt it's much more than a good regular job, so at 28 he probably needs to think about his life after football. How much would he earn at Bayern do you reckon? More than he would at Gladbach for example?
In the sense that Spurs are eyeing Ten Hag, I suppose?
He's been starting games regularly for many years, just in the lower divisions. I wasn't aware of him until this season, so I can't tell you whether he had a sudden performance bump or whether he's been flying under the radar. I won't blame him for choosing the money, but I think he has quite an exciting style and it would be unfortunate as a watcher if he decided he'd rather sit on the bench than play.
According to Kicker Glasner has a release clause in his Wolfsburg contract, which he would have to activate until tomorrow at the latest. They claim that Wolfsburg's management is completely in the dark about his intention and thus are already monitoring the market (Mark van Bommel is mentioned by name). They also mention growing irritation among the management about Glasner's unclear line and apparently a statement that he already told Flick (of all people) what he intends to do, but not his bosses; which may ultimately cause things to end in divorce regardless of what Glasner himself decides.
I don't really see what he could accomplish there that he didn't already accomplish with Ajax. I don't really think ten Hag will have to think hard if it's between them and Spurs. At least the latter will always have money.
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For a start, it'll give more aspiring coaches/managers something to dream about and give them more motivation to get out of their comfort zone. When you look at his career path, he pretty much started off in the U.S. coaching program, and one would have expected him to just remain in there. Him deciding to leave for Germany a few years into his head coaching career was a welcome surprise and has since shown what a U.S./Canadian coach can achieve if they leave their comfort zone. Here's hoping we see more promising coaches from this region give Europe a chance in their careers.
On whether football clubs will pay attention to MLS, well, that's another story altogether. For the most part, American and Canadian coaches are some way behind their foreign counterparts, though there are still some fairly promising coaches coming through (like Jim Curtin of the Philadelphia Union). Overall, I don't know if they'll ever get looked at unless they somehow enter the Red Bull/City Football Group ecosystem or there's an ambitious football club scouting the region.
On Marsch's tactics, I would like to see how he's developed and will develop further. He won't necessarily stick out in the Bundesliga with his approach, and Leipzig may rely more on the individual quality of their players to get results at the start. With that said, from the little that I've seen of Marsch's Salzburg this season (in the Europa League), he isn't as gung-ho as he used to be. I still remember his NYRB's performance against Toronto FC in 2017 where they opened themselves up to the counterattack and lost as a result (though barely) as well as his team's performances against Liverpool in their high-scoring losses in the Champions League. This season, though, Salzburg have been more disciplined with their press, and their defensive shape is better than before. I'm looking forward to seeing how his approach works in the Bundesliga.
EDIT: What makes Marsch different from the likes of Matarazzo and Wagner is that he didn't necessarily start off his coaching career outside of Europe. He started off exclusively in the U.S., like Bob Bradley and Gregg Berhalter. Unlike both of them, however, he didn't need the U.S. head coaching role to give him the greater exposure, and thanks to the Red Bull system, he is now coaching a Champions League team, which should put him under the lens of the greater football community.
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It will also be interesting to see if the trickle of young US and Canadian players into Germany increases now that someone with an intimate knowledge of NA is in charge of a prestige club. From all accounts Aaronson was beginning to thrive at RB Salzburg under Marsch and I wonder if he will jump on the RB promotion train in the next year or 2. We might also see a promising NA coach or 2 pop up on Jessies staff which would be useful. Anything that helps football grow over here is great in my opinion, and that includes helping Canada improve as well!
Yeah, if they are in for him I think it'll be difficult for us to convince him. Bosz' philosophy is similar to Ten Hags, the squad has been developed into this direction and Rolfes openly communicated that having high possession is a driver for talent development, so they want to continue with the direction they chose with Bosz. Also, he speaks German.
Those factors could be important for him, too, but realistically speaking we don't really stand a chance against Tottenham if they are serious. Still hope they go for a coach with a better CV than Ten Hag, maybe someone like Allegri, Sarri or someone along those lines but if they really were interested in Marsch, they seem to be looking for very promising low profile managers.
Who knows what status the offer from Spurs had. I doubt he was their expressedly single preferred top candidate whom they were desperate to get, and he turned them down..
Yeah, I'm glad that you highlighted that knock-on effect. There are a few MLS academies that have extremely talented players, and whilst FC Dallas, for example, are continuously monitored, there is also Philadelphia's academy that's producing some very, very talented players (like Aaronson). Hopefully more of them get some exposure from European clubs.
Thank for caring!
It's true one way or another that getting people from North America in high profile positions in Europe helps soccer over here. Even if they are entirely stand-alone, never go back to North America, and don't help any other North Americas, just getting articles about them in the media gives the sport a higher profile. Every little helps!
Thank for caring!
Of course! It seems like CR is going to fall off a bit, so having another rival push the US can only help us and the region improve. Very intrigued by what is happening in Jamaica and Curacao as well with dual nationals.
That sounds like the channels into European football are open and it's just up to the coaches to take them. Is that really the case though? Looking at the kind of analytical work you can find online or the career path of Rene Maric as an example I don't think the access to knowledge is gated by your place of origin. And Marsch's path looks a lot like a fortunate coincidence to me. I don't think RB have any deeper interest in bringing US coaches over to Europe. Going by Marsch's last name he might have spoken a bit of German to begin with and maybe Rangnick took a liking to him, so they gave him a chance in Leipzig and then Salzburg. If a next guy doesn't speak German he's of little use to them at home. Infact their current coach appears to be Austrian.
For his personal development it will of course be a massive opportunity and given Leipzig's squad quality top four should be a given, if he can form a cohesive team. Even if his possession game in the end turns out not to be polished. I was more comparing to the Nagelsmann "era" where they arguably were a Haaland away from genuinely challenging Bayern this season.
I don't think that changes a lot. RB already had their feeder club in NY to begin with, they won't rely on Marsch to scout the continent. And North American players were already extremely attactive in general, because of their marketing value, because they are usually cheap to acquire, they don't face a huge cultural adjustment and they speak English. Pulisic, Reyna, McKennie, Hoppe, Sargent, Davies, T. Adams, C. Richards. There are or were quite a lot of players in Bundesliga that prove this.
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They might have been a Haaland away from challenging for the title, but now they will be a Nagelsmann away from being certain top 4.
I don't agree with the bolded at all, I think they're in for a tough time, and if I had to bet I'd see them finishing 4th-7th.
It could be, or it could not. I can't say for sure. However, for Americans and Canadians to move over to Europe, they also need to be willing, and I'm not so sure if they really are. If they show more willingness, then we may see some more of those paths open up, even if they'd be to smaller leagues like the Scandinavian ones (referring to Gregg Berhalter here). Certainly, one's origins aren't expected to play a part. I think there are many teams in Europe that look past one's national/regional origins nowadays. That's why I'm hoping that Marsch's appointment at Leipzig gives more of the American/Canadian coaches the motivation to give Europe a shot and maybe send out applications to European teams wherever there are openings.
Whilst Marsch's conditions were pretty much suited to him eventually ending up where he is, he still had to impress as a coach. Given that platform, he's done a great job of establishing himself. Regarding his ability to speak German, Marsch was born and raised in Wisconsin, which is as American a state as you can find (@WI_Red can talk more about its demographics), and I'm not sure if he necessarily spoke much, if any, German, growing up. Based on his viral half-time speech, it looked like he took the time to learn German during his Salzburg spell. If anything, Marsch's ambitious nature along with his coaching and style of play made him more of an attractive prospect for coaching at Leipzig in 2018. The American soccer media saw this as a major gamble by Leipzig and a big surprise on Marsch's part (given that he technically stepped down to a lesser role). With that said, hopefully we have more of these welcome surprises and a greater push towards proactive coaching in the U.S. and Canada.
EDIT: Regarding the MLS coaching pipeline, specifically, there is one notable example of an MLS head coach moving to Europe outside of the Red Bull or CFG pipeline. Veljko Paunovic coached Chicago Fire for 4 years and has since been coaching at Reading in the Championship. Despite Paunovic only making the MLS playoffs once in his 4 years there, he was still brought into what is a fairly decent European league at a fairly decent team in Reading. The possibilities are there; it's just about the coaches' ambitions and whether there are enough of them.
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True, but all the players you mentioned (other than maybe Adams) came to Germany before playing a significant number of games in MLS. Aaronson did play a decent amount in the US and I think that this will be the next evolution. It is one thing for German clubs to raid the US academies (Richards, Reyna, Sargeant, etc.) but a different thing for them to purchase players who have graduated the academies and are playing in MLS. This is where I think Marsch may have an advantage as he coached in the league and has connections. Just my (hopeful) opinion.
Such an altruistic mindset!
I had added a bit to my post after writing that first line btw. I think simply the international status of these people playing in Europe might help boost soccer over here. As I said, every little helps.
To be frank I doubt that a lack of monitoring is the issue here. At least not in a country like the US. In the 90s and early 00s it might have been the case that you could "discover" talent as a scout but nowadays it is very hard for a great talent to go unnoticed. Kagawa is probably the last decent player whose career went this way. Scouting nowadays is more about assessment and networking than discovering, I'd say. I mean, look how many U15 players are brought to the academies of top clubs from countries with rather irrelevant football merit.
I believe the fact that there are few American top players rather comes down to the US not producing the necessary level of talent, at least not at the rate required to really make an impact. Whether that is down to overall engagement with the sport or the system with highschool, college teams etc. is a different matter. I'd say it's the system, personally, because from my perspective it seems like the brightest talents emerged through the youth ranks of clubs in Europe and not colleges/hichschools in the US.
For sure, the system has been and still is a problem. With that said, the MLS academies have gotten much better at discovering and developing those hidden talents, and whilst they're still missing out on a bunch of prospects, this is at least a start.
FC Dallas has been eyed up by many European clubs for the past several years, but they've always been the exception. However, given how well both Alphonso Davies and Brendan Aaronson have progressed despite not going through European academies, there is a chance that more academies other than FC Dallas's are eyed up now. I know that Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty of Toronto FC is being monitored by many European clubs, for example, as well as Caden Clark of NYRB and Gianluca Busio of Sporting KC. It's this kind of exposure that'll hopefully not only push more kids towards joining academies but also push the academies themselves to look for more hidden talents across both the U.S. and Canada.
I happened to watch a few Chicago Fire games when Schweini went there, and I can't say I was particularly impressed by how they were set up.
Might it be that in Paunovic's case it's not so much his MLS record as maybe his Serbia youth coaching experience and connections?
I've been looking at this from a continental European perspective and from that pov the language barrier is simply an all but insurmountable obstacle. Even the Dutch ultimately often still have problems with it when they want to take on a bigger job in Germany. I struggle to even recall a French, Polish or Czech coach in Bundesliga. So the question is always why open yourself up to that kind of risk when you can hire a native speaker? It makes absolutely no sense and I would guess it's the same in Spain (who theoretically also have access to South American coaches, but rarely seem to hire them) or Italy.
English football doesn't have that barrier and that might pose a real opportunity for NA coaches, but then speaking English is hardly a unique quality and it is probably outweighed by the fact that English clubs can basically recruit half the coaches in Europe. Marsch is an inspirational story, but would he even have tried to learn German to this extend if he didn't work for RB? Would people just try to "randomly" master a new language in the hopes that maybe some day somehow a club from that country might show interest in them?
But here's the problem: Because of the size of the NA market MLS has more money going around than the football itself merits. Like the football is on the level of a top 5 nation's second division (?) yet transfer fees for its top players are what? €10m? Generally speaking outside of maybe England no club is willing or able to take that kind of gamble.
From a US perspective I think this is not quite the case, but that is not the fault of european scouts. US development has been notoriously insular due to the pay to play scheme used here in the states. Until the recent formation of the academy systems almost all young players went through the college route, and that usually came down to what club team (not professional clubs, but private local clubs) you played for. Even with the academies you can see that only a few of the clubs are taking this seriously. There is no reason for Dallas to be able to find more players in Birmingham, Alabama (Richards, Tessman) than both LA clubs combined can find in southern California. 15 years ago Pulisic/Adams/McKennie would not have been who they are now.
Only 3 transfers have ever been higher than $10 million dollars. The majority are $4 million and under
Major League Soccer - Transfer records | Transfermarkt
You've listed "only departing players". Within the league itself there seem to be much more transfers from 5-10m.