Before Reus it was Kagawa. Grosskreutz role increased as a starter after injuries to Kagawa in the 10/11 season and then Gotze in the 11/12 season. But with all fit, he wasn't a starter.
German Football 20/21
- Thread starter do.ob
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Before Reus it was Kagawa. Grosskreutz role increased as a starter after injuries to Kagawa in the 10/11 season and then Gotze in the 11/12 season. But with all fit, he wasn't a starter.
32 league game starts in 10/11, 26 in 11/12. Not sure what to tell you.
He benefited from being the first option on the bench and having the versatility of playing across the front three. With the long term injuries to Kagawa and Gotze for the 10/11 and 11/12 season respectively, he managed to play more often.
In the 11/12 season, up until Gotze's injury in November he only started 11 of Dortmund's 16 BL matches. After Gotze's injury he started 16 of the following 19 matches, therefore again when everyone was fit he was usually on the bench.
My comment about Grosskeutz was in reponse to @do.ob saying that Grosskeutz's role within Klopp was indicative of how Klopp's system was catering to low technical quality players, while for me Grosskeutz was never the first option for Dortmund's title squads and therefore their system as not dependent on him. Unlike for Sven Bender, who was always the first choice option.
'First option on the bench' when he starts 32 out of 34 league games? Makes no sense, sorry.
Until his muscle and knee injury in the middle of Klopp's last year he was first option.
Whether or not you want to classify Großkreutz as first choice is semantics, isn't it? The fact remains that he was an important player for Klopp's Dortmund. In 10/11 he was third best in the team for goals and assists in 11/12 he was fourth best. And it wasn't like there was no other option either: be it Hajnal, Zidan, Lewandowski, Barrios or perhaps most telling: a certain Perisic, who ,for all his vastly superior talent, never really made it past Großkreutz. Because back then they didn't have to worry as much about unlocking defenses or build up: long balls from Hummels and quick transitions took care of that. So it was perfectly logical to play a winger whose only exceptional quality was his contribution to the pressing game.
It's also not necessarily correct that Bender was always first choice. Sebastian Kehl, who himself probably had an injury file that dwarfed either Bender's, was around until Klopp's end and when fit started a lot of matches.
I could swear I remember reading that Jörg Schönbohm had died?
Yet here he is, and appointed Schalke coach of all things.
Guess 2020 really is a year of miracles.
First time that I can remember a club getting punished for something like this.
€4m will be extremely painful for Werder in the current climate as well, if they haven't set the money aside already.
The 4m will be paid be the insurance company, not by Werder itself.
Never heard of this case, or athletes' dependency on pain killers more generally. It sounds like something that would be widespread through lots of sports though. Does anyone have more insight on that?
There was a documentary on German television about it not too long ago. They had Subotic saying that in his experience people are popping Ibuprofen like smarties and where among others they talk to a team playing in the 7th division whose players happily admit to popping pills every game.
As far as I remember Breno complained publicly that access to pain medication was too easy, but it was right after he set his house on fire, so no one really took it seriously. Not that most major sports news outlets would want to touch such topics anyway. They are all dependent on football's attractiveness and access from clubs, so they tend to focus on the positive stuff.
In the end it's pretty logical. Pain pills aren't affected by doping regulations, you can get some of them over the counter or you can easily convince a doctor to prescribe you some stronger ones for your supposed or actual sports injury and feeling no or at least less pain can be a big competitive advantage.
Can't watch that video over here, but thanks for the explanation. Yeah, that last bit is what I meant. I had never heard about this, but it sounds like a very obvious thing people would be doing - not just in football, but also in other sports. I can't imagine things being any different in the ice hockey, American football, or basketball, for instance.
On the other hand, if this is so obvious and makes sense to be widespread, why is it so under-the-radar? You're right that it's not something most sports broadcasters and journalists would be interested in delving into, but it sounds like there would be some big and juicy stories in this for other newsmakers - if it's as widespread as I'm kinda assuming here.
Considering that straight up doping barely makes it on the radar it's not hard to believe that neither do the media care about what goes on with legal drugs nor do players complain about taking them. We can talk about whether the system puts the players under too much physical strain and mental pressure to do this, but apparently it's the same in low tier amateur teams. In the end it's the logical choice for people with a (very) competitive mind set.
Wait a minute.. Bundesliga? Today? Caught me totally off guard 
Looks like neither Stevens nor Gross have improved upon Baum's work one bit. Hertha are pretty shocking as well.
What's Dortmund's plan for manager? Surely they had someone in mind when they fired Favre?
They are in trouble, they have yet to play Bayer, RB, monchengladbach and Wolfsburg who they are playing tomorrow.
They are in trouble, they have yet to play Bayer, RB, monchengladbach and Wolfsburg who they are playing tomorrow.
Media speculation strongly points toward Marco Rose for next summer. The hope, for now, is that Terzic will stabilize the team enough to finish fourth. Given that Gladbach have a lot of trouble with fatigue and that Wolfsburg probably won't be able to play a consistent season that should be doable on paper.
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So, the plan is to hang onto top 4 with an interim coach and then hire the rival coach which couldn't get past the interim coach?
Solid, and ambitious.
I mean if Gladbach and Dortmund had similar means then that statement would make sense. But they don't.
@do.ob Any truth to these Brandt to Arsenal rumours? 
How would you feel as a Dortmund fan if this went though?
How would you feel as a Dortmund fan if this went though?I should maybe remember adding a "
" when I'm writing tongue in cheek. But my question would be, why would we assume Rose will be an upgrade on Favre when, well, how should I put this, he doesn't do better at Gladbach than Favre did?I mean, I get it, Favre probably lost the team, he probably needed to be replaced. He wasn't setting world on fire anyway. And someone else needs to take over, and Rose seems like a good candidate.
But, I wouldn't really shaking with happy anticipation as a BVB fan, really.
Schalke are one winless match away from equalling Tasmania Berlin's streak of 31 now. Incredible.
Hosting Hoffenheim next weekend. Fingers crossed.
@do.ob Any truth to these Brandt to Arsenal rumours?
I have no idea.. Brandt has shown under Bosz that he can be a terrific player, but he has also shown (especially this season) that he can be a pretty useless player. I think if the next coach does not see Brandt's ideal role in his first team then it's time to sell him, especially if there's interest from a PL club.
I should maybe remember adding a "
I mean, I get it, Favre probably lost the team, he probably needed to be replaced. He wasn't setting world on fire anyway. And someone else needs to take over, and Rose seems like a good candidate.
But, I wouldn't really shaking with happy anticipation as a BVB fan, really.
I think everything considered Rose is doing really well at Gladbach. Making top four probably hasn't been as hard in decades as it has been since Leipzig became a thing and Leverkusen found some consistency under Bosz.
By advancing from a proper group of death he has also put Gladbach (back) on the map internationally.
On the other hand there is no denying that their league results have been quite disappointing this year and I think coupled with the rumours about his future and his unwillingness to commit to Gladbach things could develop into a very nasty dynamic. But I think the reasons for that are at least in part out of his hand. For example they are absolutely getting crushed by the corona schedule: Thuram and Plea in particular have to be rested or subbed off early all the time and looking at their contributions it seems like they spent most of their energy in the CL. Zakaria is another key player they have to rely on, but he's been absolutely atrocious since his return from injury.
I think a lot of the problems that keep them down this season wouldn't be huge factors at Dortmund, because (hopefully) the schedule will be back to normal next season and because he'd have the squad depth to better cope with multiple competitions.
To me the big question is how well would he adjust to teams forcing him into a more dominant, avoiding more risks and denying more space than they currently afford Gladbach.
And who else is there anyway? Nagelsmann isn't available, neither is Tuchel a candidate. Kohfeldt needs to have success at a better club than Werder, before he can be considered. Bosz can't be hired back, because his time at Dortmund ended too quickly and too badly. Poch, if there even ever was a chance of that happening, has signed elsewhere. I guess that only leaves someone like Ten Hag.
They will sack Gross in the next few weeks too.
The current squad is a disgrace if the ITK reports are true.
They should just give the job to Norbert Elgert for the rest of the season and he should play many young players to see which players are good enough for the 2.Bundesliga.
Haaland doesn’t look happy IMO
Sancho awful miss at the end of the first half.
Schlager failing at this human activity called running
Hummels trying to pull a Maguire there, but Akanji blocks him well and manages to score!
Oh well, at this point I guess you have to call it a deserved lead for BVB
Tiago Dantas in the Bayern squad, wonder whether we will get to see a bit of him today.
That was quite brilliant by Sancho 2-0 game over
Nice goal by Sancho!
Good skill and finish. Awful pace to put himself in that position though.
It was the last minute of the game. Can only imagine he was tired.
can't believe how in every fecking game against every fecking opponent we give away a top scoring chance within the first couple of minutes
Tolisso is not a bad player but I'm at the point where I wish we sell him and buy another top central midfielder. We have a problem in midfield when he's supposed to be the in-house Thiago replacement. It is a decisive step down in quality.
How many times in a row have we conceded first?
Mainz seem to get a result against Bayern most seasons. Can remember them winning away a few years back when Dave Grohl managed them.
Shock lead but bayern had a fair few comebacks already this season.
Shock lead but bayern had a fair few comebacks already this season.