“Swallowed”… That is such a stupid way of describing the attractions of the freeest, richest and most advanced countries in the world to countries broken by the communists.
Geopolitics
- Thread starter Mciahel Goodman
- Start date
“Swallowed”… That is such a stupid way of describing the attractions of the freeest, richest and most advanced countries in the world to countries broken by the communists.
I’m glad I was sitting down to read that. Total shocker.
I think it's quite irrelevant to the point. Replace it with any word you prefer.
Why are you posting an article from Chinese state media which is from three days after the invasion? Honestly, no matter how valid your points may or may not be, you have to realize that's a bad decision.
Nope, they have a choice. If Moldova and Ukraine integrated further with the West, hell if Russia dropped all dictator chip on shoulder bullshit and started working for their citizens and moving closer to the West. They'd fecking thrive.
Instead Putin and his thugs are living in the past.
Has there been a legitimate explanation of how NATO’s existence in Europe is a security threat to Russia? What have I missed?
Erm a defensive alliance is not a threat to Russia. And the western powers can lop nukes at Russia without a Ukraine border. Several countries with borders to Russia are already part of Nato and the current war demonstrates why that is a very good decision.
Well if they invaded a Nato country then they with have to fight the whole of Nato.
Which is why Putin doesn’t want his neighbors joining NATO. Because he wants to invade them without the threat of having to deal with an all of NATO response.
Damn, if only there were a way for Russia to avoid that.
If only democracy didn’t exist in Ukraine (thereby along Russian borders), Putin wouldn’t need to invade his neighbors.
[Yakov Smirnoff] In Putinist Russia, democracy rig you! [Yakov Smirnoff]
Don’t disagree, but Iraq / Afghans didn’t have the force projection capabilities that Russia has, plus there are no huge American air bases in country.
You talk as if the USA hasn't enforced regime change on democratically elected governments for their own interest
There is a alternative time line where Corbyn becomes PM in 2019 and me and every other momentum member is machine gunned down by MI5 agents, in a empty Wembley stadium for wanting to increase the benefits.
I‘d easily take that now, compared to what we are living through. It’s all so stupid.
You don't think Nato is an expansion of US power?
I would disagree on both points. If Russia goes Democratic with a leader like (for example Navalny), then there’s no need to obsess over any former Soviet states. The only reason Putin is doing is because he’s an authoritarian ultranationalist. If you remove those two components you also remove predatory Russian behavior towards its neighbors.
On your second point, the war makes zero geopolitical sense for Putin when you consider that it has destabilized every Russian economic and military interest imaginable, with no meaningful military gains to show inside Ukraine.
Same world where you attacked Iraq for WMDs
I’m sorry, but in this world of yours, did Iraq have just as large a nuclear arsenal as NATO?
Right, so basically you don’t like the US, and therefore are inventing a scenario in LaLa Land in which NATO pre-emptively invades its only nuclear peer in the world.
I don't think a Nato power would invade Russia but I can understand their concern with having a pro-America country on their door step. Considering how pro regime change the USA is
This is what you were asked…
To which you said…
So which is it? Because this whole “the Russians have a legitimate reason to fear NATO” is absolute Pravda level stuff. NATO is no more an existential threat for Russia than Ukraine is.
Which, speaking of…
I’m sorry, what?
Not primarily, no, although it certainly helps with the expansion of US power, just as any collective group amplifies the efforts of the individuals in that collective. By the same token, Estonia's power is also enhanced by being in NATO.
Primarily, NATO is a defensive alliance of (mostly) liberal democracies. This fundamental isn't changed by the fact that some parts of NATO have also engaged in offensive actions, mostly, I would argue, with good intentions if not necessarily with good results.
But this is besides the original point, namely that no-one - not even Putin - believes that NATO would ever invade a nuclear-armed Russia ... which means that NATO is not an existential threat to Russia.
In my opinion I think Nato could be used for aggressive wars in the future like Libya and Serbia. If I was Russian I would be wary of this fact and make sure they aren't on my door step. I think Nato is an expansion of US foreign power.
I think Russia is thinking for the long term future. I said Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia because of its proximity to their major population centres and the terrain in that area. I understand Ukraine to be mostly flat land which would be ripe for an invasion into Russia.
You might think an invasion into Russia is a laughable scenario but I think from their perspective they have been invaded twice in the last 100 years and the leadership will ensure it won't happen again.
A defensive alliance which sometimes engages in offensive actions
If you were a Russian leader would you not be wary of this kind of group being on your borders?
For me I see Russias stance on Ukraine similar to the Monroe Doctrine where no one is allowed to mess around on the USA's border
https://peoplesparty.org/nato-ukraine/
Both corporate parties are controlled by the Military Industrial Complex which is invested in Death.
There can be no victory unless there is peace.
Lets hope no more mothers weep for children they bring into this world with so much pain and hope.
Both corporate parties are controlled by the Military Industrial Complex which is invested in Death.
There can be no victory unless there is peace.
Lets hope no more mothers weep for children they bring into this world with so much pain and hope.
That's an impressively unhinged take on this war.
@Attila This u, hon?
USA USA USA!
I’m puzzled, are we discussing the US now? We’ve moved off of NATO?
Out of curiosity, where are you from?
Scotland
Man, I can’t wait to see your take on the UK’s roles in Serbia, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. then.
Me? I’m really interested in you bringing up Serbia multiple times.
Yeah I’m not surprised you can’t give a straight answer