General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
The key to getting more young people to vote will clearly be online voting... I think more needs to be done to make it a reality. It feels to me like they are delaying the inevitable by making excuses about it being difficult and hacking/security concerns.

In the future it will be the norm. I can't believe that in 20 or 30 years, people will still have to turn up in person at a polling booth and write on a piece of card. It's easy to say it's just laziness on the part of the younger generation and I can understand that point... but they are growing up in an era where they can do almost everything they need to remotely using just a phone, computer etc.
 
That Tees Valley result means more Lib Dems put Tories as second pref over Labour, wtf?
 
The one possible bright side of this Tpry rampage is that maybe once they've got total power and wiped out all opposition to them, at this stage perhaps they'll bring back the cane? A lot of young people could do with a good smack. Maybe that and the workhouses will get them to finally vote!
 
Dobba said:
But Corbyn is bad so Tories win = Corbyn goes. Then Labour are saved?

We just have to ignore the Tories winning and what it means because Corbyn is bad and needs to go. So go Tories!
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The smugness and moral superiority you continue to show is really quite astounding at times.
 
Kentonio said:
I don't know how we ended up in a situation where young people don't think politics is relevant to them, its insane.
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Institutions that played traditionally an important role in mobilizing people and connecting parties to them are losing relevance for young citizens. Yet the new forms of societal organization are not represented by the traditional parties and are less suited to mobilize people to join/organize/support national parties.
 
With all these results coming in I feel as dejected as the early morning of the Brexit vote when it was clear remain was dying :(
 
Kentonio said:
Yeah you're right, I'd forgotten about John Majors win. It doesn't alter the fact though that a deeply unpopular conservative government made themselves unelectable for over a decade. It's hard to piss off the British people so much that you go from government to unelectable, but it does happen. I think its also much more likely to happen in the future due to the mass communication formats we have that didn't exist previously. Pre-conceptions are strengthened by constant exposure to bias confirmation due to how social media works. If the Tories overplay their hand like they seem to be doing, and people are hit with the stark consequences economically or with continued drastic change to services, then the Tories really could screw themselves for another decade and more.
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What made them unelectable from 97 onwards was the alternative on offer. 83, 92 & 2015 showed that no matter how nasty and divisive the Tories are, that fact alone won't make people kick them out. People still have to trust Labour to get the job done.

Sadly, also, its pretty easy to go from Government to long periods of unelectability. Labour have managed it 3 times already since he war.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
With all these results coming in I feel as dejected as the early morning of the Brexit vote when it was clear remain was dying :(
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I feel worse. In Scotland, I really hoped Lab/Lib voters would rather 2nd pref SNP over Tories but the opposite is true. Just seems daft to me.
 
Zlatattack said:
The one possible bright side of this Tpry rampage is that maybe once they've got total power and wiped out all opposition to them, at this stage perhaps they'll bring back the cane? A lot of young people could do with a good smack. Maybe that and the workhouses will get them to finally vote!
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Or National Service innit.
 
Dobba said:
I'm cool not voting alongside people who've seen the treatment of the most vulnerable people in the country over the past 7 years and think 'Yeah, more of that please'. It also makes a bit of a mockery of their crying about being labelled Red Tories given the ease they've managed to join them.
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I don't think it's the people who argue about politics and 'Red Tories' on twitter that Labour are losing in droves...

You don't think that a more competent opposition with a clearer, more convincing message and fewer obvious 'weaknesses' (e.g. IRA, Trident, McDonnell, Abbott) would be doing better than this? In 2015* and 2016 this is exactly what was warned would happen to the party if it shifted to the left, and told the more centrist elements of the Labour tent to feck off. The people who made those arguments obviously lost at the time, but they're now being proven right. I just hope that enough people learn the lessons of the last two years, and we're not going to have to see Jeremy hold on to power in defeat, and re-live the same awful internal battles for a third time.

* Disclosure: I voted for JC first time round. Regret it now.
 
what planet does Diane Abbott live on? I honestly believe if Corbyn had the bottle to sack her today Labour would get far more votes come the election.

"This is a relatively low turnout type of election. At the general we will have a higher turnout. And I believe that Labour voters will be repelled by Tory triumphalism and the notion of giving Theresa May some kind of blank cheque."
 
ThierryHenry said:
I don't think it's the people who argue about politics and 'Red Tories' on twitter that Labour are losing in droves...

You don't think that a more competent opposition with a clearer, more convincing message and fewer obvious 'weaknesses' (e.g. IRA, Trident, McDonnell, Abbott) would be doing better than this? In 2015* and 2016 this is exactly what was warned would happen to the party if it shifted to the left, and told the more centrist elements of the Labour tent to feck off. The people who made those arguments obviously lost at the time, but they're now being proven right. I just hope that enough people learn the lessons of the last two years, and we're not going to have to see Jeremy hold on to power in defeat, and re-live the same awful internal battles for a third time.

* Disclosure: I voted for JC first time round. Regret it now.
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Trident is such an absurd waste of money in my opinion. People bemoan the lack of funding in the services, well that's one of the main reasons right there. All so we can keep them locked away in secret facilities getting dusty. Utterly bizarre.

If North Korea, China, Russia, Whoever decides to launch a Nuke at us, having Trident won't stop that, all it does is allow us a bit of revenge (and end the world quicker). Frankly, the concept of having a device that can kill millions and be launched by our priminster doesn't fill me with much joy.
 
ThierryHenry said:
You don't think that a more competent opposition with a clearer, more convincing message and fewer obvious 'weaknesses' (e.g. IRA, Trident, McDonnell, Abbott) would be doing better than this? In 2015* and 2016 this is exactly what was warned would happen to the party if it shifted to the left, and told the more centrist elements of the Labour tent to feck off. The people who made those arguments obviously lost at the time, but they're now being proven right. I just hope that enough people learn the lessons of the last two years, and we're not going to have to see Jeremy hold on to power in defeat, and re-live the same awful internal battles for a third time.

* Disclosure: I voted for JC first time round. Regret it now.
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Until this seemingly mythical party and leader comes along, the answer to the first question is almost anything you want it to be. I take your lesson learning request on board and agree to an extent. Personally, I've learned that the Labour party only speaks for me with someone like Corbyn in charge. The pre-Corbyn nodding along with austerity, tougher than the Tories on welfare, not representing those out of work party was as close to Red Tory as it gets and why I use the term to describe anyone who looks back at those days while Gladys Knight sings The Way We Were in their head. If you can look at that, then add the PLP's actions over the last 2 years and all the journalists they run to when they have a story to tell and convince me that the party wouldn't immediately go back there the second Corbyn goes, I hope you're in the selling business because you'd genuinely have missed your calling in life if you're not. Heck, I'd probably vote for you as a politician.

I would question why you want to restrict lesson learning to Corbyn's time though and not even as far back as Blair and the millions of votes he shed even while winning and then through Brown, the apparently more electable Miliband brother and even Scottish Labour. Doing that is what led me to abandoning the party until Corbyn appeared and offered something different. But you can bet that the people who are responsible for all of Labour's failures before and during that leadership election would be hanging around, either in the party, as a MP or getting their face and opinion into the press, whoever sits in the leadership position the day after the election.
 
RedSky said:
Trident is such an absurd waste of money in my opinion. People bemoan the lack of funding in the services, well that's one of the main reasons right there. All so we can keep them locked away in secret facilities getting dusty. Utterly bizarre.

If North Korea, China, Russia, Whoever decides to launch a Nuke at us, having Trident won't stop that, all it does is allow us a bit of revenge (and end the world quicker). Frankly, the concept of having a device that can kill millions and be launched by our priminster doesn't fill me with much joy.
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Pretty much agree.

When I was young my mum had an acquaintance that was a tory councillor, she never stopped talking about how important nuclear weapons were. This was during the thatch reagun love in.
 
RedSky said:
Trident is such an absurd waste of money in my opinion. People bemoan the lack of funding in the services, well that's one of the main reasons right there. All so we can keep them locked away in secret facilities getting dusty. Utterly bizarre.

If North Korea, China, Russia, Whoever decides to launch a Nuke at us, having Trident won't stop that, all it does is allow us a bit of revenge (and end the world quicker). Frankly, the concept of having a device that can kill millions and be launched by our priminster doesn't fill me with much joy.
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Corbyn's speech on trident was excellent. It doesn't deter terror and it doesn't deter our enemies as you cannot nuke proxy groups like ISIS, if the time ever came where a nuclear retaliation was an option he wouldn't use it as condemning hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians of the nation you are attacking achieves nothing.
 
Lib Dems actually won my seat, possibly the first time I've ever voted for a winning candidate in an election :lol:
 
Dobba said:
I'm cool not voting alongside people who've seen the treatment of the most vulnerable people in the country over the past 7 years and think 'Yeah, more of that please'. It also makes a bit of a mockery of their crying about being labelled Red Tories given the ease they've managed to join them.
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It's the most vulnerable that are abandoning labour.
 
Dobba said:
Until this seemingly mythical party and leader comes along, the answer to the first question is almost anything you want it to be. I take your lesson learning request on board and agree to an extent. Personally, I've learned that the Labour party only speaks for me with someone like Corbyn in charge. The pre-Corbyn nodding along with austerity, tougher than the Tories on welfare, not representing those out of work party was as close to Red Tory as it gets and why I use the term to describe anyone who looks back at those days while Gladys Knight sings The Way We Were in their head. If you can look at that, then add the PLP's actions over the last 2 years and all the journalists they run to when they have a story to tell and convince me that the party wouldn't immediately go back there the second Corbyn goes, I hope you're in the selling business because you'd genuinely have missed your calling in life if you're not. Heck, I'd probably vote for you as a politician.

I would question why you want to restrict lesson learning to Corbyn's time though and not even as far back as Blair and the millions of votes he shed even while winning and then through Brown, the apparently more electable Miliband brother and even Scottish Labour. Doing that is what led me to abandoning the party until Corbyn appeared and offered something different. But you can bet that the people who are responsible for all of Labour's failures before and during that leadership election would be hanging around, either in the party, as a MP or getting their face and opinion into the press, whoever sits in the leadership position the day after the election.
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The obvious question then, given that those issues you discuss aren't going away, is it better to have Corbyn in charge with perpetual Tory rule, or someone who doesn't represent you who is more likely to replace them?

(Also, 5 million votes klaxon)
 
RedSky said:
Trident is such an absurd waste of money in my opinion. People bemoan the lack of funding in the services, well that's one of the main reasons right there. All so we can keep them locked away in secret facilities getting dusty. Utterly bizarre.

If North Korea, China, Russia, Whoever decides to launch a Nuke at us, having Trident won't stop that, all it does is allow us a bit of revenge (and end the world quicker). Frankly, the concept of having a device that can kill millions and be launched by our priminster doesn't fill me with much joy.
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I mostly agree, but the majority doesn't and you need to pick your battles. Nuclear disarmament isn't the topic of the day, and focusing on it does nothing but lose votes for the party. Fight your arguments where you can win them.
RedSky said:
Agree with this. New Labour did nothing for me.
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Fair enough - I don't agree at all here. I guess that's where we all differ.
 
Sassy Colin said:
One good thing that has come out of these local council elections is that UKIP has been wiped out. It is interesting that they seem to have defected to the Tories rather than going back to their Labour roots.
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I think someone posted this yesterday, but it seems that a large number of voters have moved from Labour to UKIP to the Tories, probably after assuming they'd never vote for the parry of the 'elite'. Funny that this wouldn't have happened under Cameron's government.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
I'm 32, so just about within the milennial generation and I wholeheartedly agree with @Penna 's observation that younger people tend to be more selfish.

I truly despair at the entitled, chip on our shoulder politics of my generation. Hatred of the rich, resentful envy of the successful and blind to responsibility.
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Please refer me to @Penna Because I certainly do not agree that the new generation are more selfish and resentful of the rich. I am 25 and my experience is that my generation are just as desperate to be successful in even more difficult circumstances.
 
Corbyn's policies are closer to my preferences also, but I'd still take New Labour if it meant none of this Hard Brexit Tory nonsense. You can't equate them.
 
Dobba said:
Until this seemingly mythical party and leader comes along, the answer to the first question is almost anything you want it to be. I take your lesson learning request on board and agree to an extent. Personally, I've learned that the Labour party only speaks for me with someone like Corbyn in charge. The pre-Corbyn nodding along with austerity, tougher than the Tories on welfare, not representing those out of work party was as close to Red Tory as it gets and why I use the term to describe anyone who looks back at those days while Gladys Knight sings The Way We Were in their head. If you can look at that, then add the PLP's actions over the last 2 years and all the journalists they run to when they have a story to tell and convince me that the party wouldn't immediately go back there the second Corbyn goes, I hope you're in the selling business because you'd genuinely have missed your calling in life if you're not. Heck, I'd probably vote for you as a politician.

I would question why you want to restrict lesson learning to Corbyn's time though and not even as far back as Blair and the millions of votes he shed even while winning and then through Brown, the apparently more electable Miliband brother and even Scottish Labour. Doing that is what led me to abandoning the party until Corbyn appeared and offered something different. But you can bet that the people who are responsible for all of Labour's failures before and during that leadership election would be hanging around, either in the party, as a MP or getting their face and opinion into the press, whoever sits in the leadership position the day after the election.
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Good post.
 
Dobba said:
Until this seemingly mythical party and leader comes along, the answer to the first question is almost anything you want it to be. I take your lesson learning request on board and agree to an extent. Personally, I've learned that the Labour party only speaks for me with someone like Corbyn in charge. The pre-Corbyn nodding along with austerity, tougher than the Tories on welfare, not representing those out of work party was as close to Red Tory as it gets and why I use the term to describe anyone who looks back at those days while Gladys Knight sings The Way We Were in their head. If you can look at that, then add the PLP's actions over the last 2 years and all the journalists they run to when they have a story to tell and convince me that the party wouldn't immediately go back there the second Corbyn goes, I hope you're in the selling business because you'd genuinely have missed your calling in life if you're not. Heck, I'd probably vote for you as a politician.

I would question why you want to restrict lesson learning to Corbyn's time though and not even as far back as Blair and the millions of votes he shed even while winning and then through Brown, the apparently more electable Miliband brother and even Scottish Labour. Doing that is what led me to abandoning the party until Corbyn appeared and offered something different. But you can bet that the people who are responsible for all of Labour's failures before and during that leadership election would be hanging around, either in the party, as a MP or getting their face and opinion into the press, whoever sits in the leadership position the day after the election.
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Is it a fair assumption that you are in the minority and as long as someone who shares your views continue to lead the Labour party, they would be unelectable? If this is true, what would be your choice? Voting for a party that partially supports your views? Not vote? Rebel and vote Tory?
 
Zlatattack said:
I didn't mean that at all. Some of the most stupid things I have heard come from educated people. I phD holding twat i came across on facebook suggested Famine in Africa was a blessing for the world, as ultimately it meant a smaller population. If I could get my hands on him, i'd reduce the world population by 1 pompous nitwit. I just think the electorate as a whole are under informed about politics. I don't mind someone voting Tory if they've read about policies and agree with them, but I do mind the lazy casual racists who vote UKIP because they think immigrants are the reason they can't afford 2 holidays a year anymore, not the fact they're having to pay back the credit cards they borrowed 10's of thousands of pounds on. There is a selfish and populist attitude to politics today.

There are few things that make Britain great. The NHS, the welfare system, the accomodating nature to others, the blitz attitude, decent chips. Today most resturants are trying to feed us those frozen shit excuses of chips. There is a growing doom mongering attitude - people aren't as willing to get up the day after someone terrible and get on with life, thankfully the majority still do. The accomodating nature has been blown away due to the efforts of multiple governments. Anything they mess up is the fault of immigrants or Muslims. We still do better than other places, but for how long? When programs like Prevent are trying to institutionalise racism all over again, what chance does society have? If we had a vote today to introduce welfare or the NHS, do you think people would vote for it? I don't think they would - society is too selfish now.

If this selfish attitude is what the electorate will deliver, i'd rather we had leaders who were qualified to do their role, rather than just elected to do it.
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I agree.

Personally i think to vote you should meet some minimum standards including rules around education and long term unemployment.
 
Tories one seat away from being largest party in Edinburgh - after the City voted 71% to remain...
 
Its all well and good shouting 'not corbyn', but that ignores the two problems that labour have.

If not him then who? Anyone who thinks owen fecking smith is a more accomplished leader can shut up now. The others in the first leadership election did not even have the goddam common sense between them to vote against tory disability cuts in the middle of a labour leadership election campaign for crying out loud. Blair gutted the party of talent, he put his mates into safe seats and created an internal system that controlled who and who did not get a chance. His people still control it now. Labour really needs to find new blood throughout the PLP.

The second question is this. Replace corbyn with anyone. If they put forward the same policies, investment in people, education, health, increasing tax at the higher bracket, you know, labour stuff, they will get the exact same treatment by the media. The only labour leader in 40 years who didn't was blair, mainly because he was godfather to one of murdochs kids by the time he ran for PM. People call him a red tory, but that is not completely accurate, but the media knew he would play their tune, because he was already part of that world.

There are severe problems labour have, and while corbyn is not the most dynamic leader around, I think the other problems are far bigger than he is.
 
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