At least UKIP are d.e.a.d.
General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time
- Thread starter altodevil
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My point was that, while your figures are the headline rates and correct, the reality is not the same. The ONS figures are created from actual tax paid, that is, they are what tax levels actually are once accountants, deferrals, share options and so forth have been used.
The reality is that the bottom 10% pay more of their income in tax than the top 10% no matter what the headline figures suggest.
I have a feeling the shift is temporary. Brexit doesn't go according to plan...and they're back.
The Labour Party future looks bleak. Big massacre for them today.
This is pretty amazing
Indeed.
Very good. I'm not even anti-monarchy and this made my day. Your posts deserves more recognition.I think may is actually further right than farage or nuttall myself, so not dead, just reabsorbed into the tories.
And that holds the entire country back. When people have such disparity of income AND the tax burden is weighted to those with least, we are going nowhere. A service economy needs a good amount of discretionary capital available to spend, and with taxes as they are and incredibly high living costs, we simply do not.
German average wages may seem to be lower than UK workers, however, they have much more disposable income, simply because they have a moderately sane housing, energy and transport market.
This country has the worst of everything, high living costs, high taxes on those least able to afford them, lower taxes on those with the most. And still people are convinced that the opposite is true because a tax avoiding media tells them it is.
Taxes in the uk are laughably low, this is the reason nothing that is funded with tax money works.
As the figures I quote show, the poorest people in our society pay 42% of every penny they earn in taxes. That is not low in an economy that requires discretionary spending. It is insanely high in an economy that also requires 40%+ of earnings to be spent on the roof over your head.
But that kind of misses the point. The example I gave is talking about relative taxation, the poorest pay more, as a percentage of income, than the richest. Our entire tax system is regressive, and it is crippling the country.
What is the correct size of government spending then? 70% 20% 50%?
I wouldn't read too much into Labour being battered in local elections - I'm die hard labour and at the local elections, i would have voted for anyone but Labour because the Labour council in my city are dog shit. I'll still vote Labour at the general election though.
The problem with Labour councils at the local level are 2 fold:
1 . The Tories are deliberately cutting funding to areas which are Labour strongholds, forcing the councils to spend less, ie cut services.
2. Labour is complacement in a lot of it's strong holds. in my city they wheel out point 1 again and again, but still have money for vanity projects! They don't show any inovative new ways of raising funds. We have a city centre full of empty office spaces and shops, perhaps they could have a 5 years rates freeze for new businesses setting up? Encourage them in, instead of letting business leave to smaller cheaper towns nearby? Instead they just roll out point 1 at every opportunity, thinking it's all they need to do to win votes.
The problem with Labour councils at the local level are 2 fold:
1 . The Tories are deliberately cutting funding to areas which are Labour strongholds, forcing the councils to spend less, ie cut services.
2. Labour is complacement in a lot of it's strong holds. in my city they wheel out point 1 again and again, but still have money for vanity projects! They don't show any inovative new ways of raising funds. We have a city centre full of empty office spaces and shops, perhaps they could have a 5 years rates freeze for new businesses setting up? Encourage them in, instead of letting business leave to smaller cheaper towns nearby? Instead they just roll out point 1 at every opportunity, thinking it's all they need to do to win votes.
Horrific night for Ukip.
No wonder Farage quit when he did, he knew the writing was on the wall for his party after the referendum.
No wonder Farage quit when he did, he knew the writing was on the wall for his party after the referendum.
To be fair, the younger 18-40 category have quite progressive views. Give it 10-15 years until the baby boomer cnuts finally die off and then we'll see a shift towards more progressive politics. I'm also certain the Tories will have fecked us over immeasurably by then too which should swing the tide the other way.
I pay 40% jusr in income tax where in the uk i would pay 20. God knows what my final figure is after non income taxes.
Alex Salmond:
"One very interesting trend, when you see the disappearance of Ukip, from English politics, and Welsh poltics for that matter, is the extent to which the Conservative party have actually become Ukip. They’ve eliminated Ukip by becoming Ukip. The sort of extreme language that Theresa May used in Downing Street the other day, that could have come from Nigel Farage. So the Conservative party have managed to beat Ukip, assimilate their votes, but they’ve done it by becoming Ukip. And as that message sinks home I think a lot of people will think twice before endorsing this type of Conservative party."
I wish that were true. I think becoming a "respectable" UKIP is a cast iron guaranteed vote winner. As a side note, whispers are big Tory gains in Scotland.
We're through the looking glass here people.
"One very interesting trend, when you see the disappearance of Ukip, from English politics, and Welsh poltics for that matter, is the extent to which the Conservative party have actually become Ukip. They’ve eliminated Ukip by becoming Ukip. The sort of extreme language that Theresa May used in Downing Street the other day, that could have come from Nigel Farage. So the Conservative party have managed to beat Ukip, assimilate their votes, but they’ve done it by becoming Ukip. And as that message sinks home I think a lot of people will think twice before endorsing this type of Conservative party."
I wish that were true. I think becoming a "respectable" UKIP is a cast iron guaranteed vote winner. As a side note, whispers are big Tory gains in Scotland.
We're through the looking glass here people.
Young people have always had more progressive views than the average. That doesn't mean the country will get more progressive over time, because people change their views as they get older.
Compare the country by the decade. It wasn't long ago that we were chemically castrating national hero's because they were gay, or the conservative party could outright campaign on the notion that if you vote for Labour you must like black people.
Historically perhaps, but with issues facing young people such as getting on the ladder, wages failing to increase in line with inflation and cost of living, as well as the effects of globalisation, I can see them championing their progressive views all the way into middle age.
We just need to get rid of the old cnuts who yearn for good ol days of the empire, racist lingo, and selfishly fecking up a future none of them will be alive for.
Its a disgrace how they went ahead with these Mayoral elections.
The voters in Manchester, Birmingham and many other cities voted against introducing the role in their cities.
The voters in Manchester, Birmingham and many other cities voted against introducing the role in their cities.
Sorry let me clarify that. I mean that the number of people voting for progressive parties will not necessarily increase over time. The country is certainly becoming more socially liberal. Indeed one of the ironies of UK politics is that liberal parties struggle to govern and yet have been the dominant social force since the 60s.
They'll no doubt hang on to their seat on BBC Question Time.
Labour have already lost control of the Glasgow council.
To think of the disgust people have towards Tony Blair and now we're seeing just how bad our politicians can really be. Certainly when I was living through it I never expected to look back on the Blair years with such nostalgia.
News that the most deprived area in Scotland has elected a Tory Councillor. They've managed to convince Joe public that it's the immigrants making them poor and not the money-grabbing elite. Incredible.
These voting trends blow the "we voted for Brexit because we voted against the establishment" out of the water.
The left has been making this assumption for decades now, along with the assumption that eventually people will get sick of the Tories. Neither has ever panned out and there's no reason to think that'll change. The progression from young liberal to older conservative seems to be a feature of how many people are hard wired and happens everywhere. Its not just a consequence of UK politics.
Lost Glasgow for the first time in 40 years.
Please would you consider not relenting with the flagrant ageism? These 'old cnuts' are people too, their views aren't the same as yours but they're citizens and many have worked and contributed taxes their entire lives - they're allowed a voice.
Imagine for a second you replaced the word 'old' with 'black' or 'Jewish' - you'd be rightfully flamed on here.
Don't say it's not the same because it is. Discrimination of a demographic, justified by your own sense of self importance. You're guilty of the very bigotry you claim to despise.
This is why i'm not a fan of democracy. 1 man 1 vote - that means even the idiots get the same representation as the rest of us. That's unfair. I reckon we should be governed by a panel of subject matter experts who get to sit there for 10 years at a time. These experts can be elected every 10 years but only after they've bee pre-screened and proven to be qualified to lead the country in any given field. Anyone who joins the panel can no longer run a business, cannot have any family members in business or hold shares in any company. They should also be forbidden from holding any roles in business for the rest of their lives. In exchange they should be paid £100k a year for life.
If by idiots you mean those with a lower education level then barring them from voting wouldn't do Labour many favours as the voice of the poor and the uneducated. More graduates and successful people voted Conservative in the last general election.
As long as labour give the impression they're at war with the middle class, this trend will not cease. They're even losing battle for working class because those ones are convinced they are poor because of immigration.
I don't even know where to start untangling this mess.
I don't even know where to start untangling this mess.
Holds different political affiliation to you = idiots.
Complains only about democracy when losing.
Yeah feck the masses!
June 8th will be the first election I don't stay up late for. Just going to vote early in the morning and blank the news for a few days.
A working class born leader, who'll give the impression they'll be tighter on immigration until people stop fearing it and wake up. Not happening though with the Blairites.
Let's not forget the radical changes introduced in the wake of WWII. Imagine what the country, and the world for that matter, would be like if the ruling elite had had free reign and not been forced to stand by as the NHS and so many socialist reforms were introduced. The older generation is/was certainly not all bad. Having said that, I would definitely encourage more youngsters to get involved and vote. It's no bad thing, imo, that so many of them reject MSM and look to unfiltered sources for their news (first hand accounts, videos, etc).
Derbyshire gone as well. Looks like Durham might be all that's left in England.