General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
NinjaFletch said:
This lady is so for turning she can't help herself.

http://edition.metro.news/content/20170420.am/htmlpages/575263.html
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Doesn't she look tired
Minimalist said:
The deficit is still stupidly high compared with 2008 - just look it up without reading any opinion pieces. The Tory policies have done feck all in the grand scheme of things despite gutting the health service and inflicting pain on ordinary people.
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Exactly what I said here. They're doing an awful job. I have a lot of sympathy for the Tories, and appreciate what they have achieved (implementing a high minimum wage, raising personal allowance, etc, reduce unemployment rate)...

But they've not done a good job. They're not close to balancing the books, and won't be for another 20 years
 
Nytram Shakes said:
but thats different from the Minimum wage...... don't get me wrong i like the idea of raising the minimum wage, as i my self would get a wage rise,..... i just want to the effects of that kind of massive wage rise to be fully layed out, and what the downsides are gonna be, becuase like ive said i can see a lot companies moving abroad and even more relying even more heavily on zero hour contracts.
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Sounds like a good time to move ahead with the long overdue banning/heavy restriction on zero hour contracts.

We've been suckered into a place where people feel like asking for even small increases in their working conditions is some huge risk, while large companies profits rise year on year. Mike Ashley employees people on shitty wages/hours that can barely keep a roof over their heads and the fat feck is now a billionaire. Multinationals dodge tax while paying their employees peanuts, and their profits are in the billions.

When do we turn around and say 'enough of this shit' instead of acting like Oliver Twist standing at the gruel counter asking if we might possibly, pretty please have just a little more so we can have both somewhere to sleep AND something to eat this month?
 
Ubik said:
A worryingly consistent result from polls is the "who do you prefer as PM" question - May has been getting over 50%, Corbyn down at about 15%. That's Labour's floor.
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True, the bigger problem for Labour is less Corbyn's policies and more Corbyn himself. In the right hands a lot of his policies would go down well. Disappointing people are so easily swayed by that...guess it's reality, though.
 
Silva said:
Yup. There's nothing else you can do when it's the policy of every nation in the world to create growth. There's a limited amount of resources, and going gung-ho on them is unsustainable, so we end up with fake growth, where everyone has more money but we can afford less and less.
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I was reading a report recently saying that the levels of "significant" financial distress were up 26% across certain sectors of the supply chain in the UK due to inflation and the impact of the new NLW was set to make the situation even worse.

That's wholesale, food and drink, logistics etc etc, so huge industries which are already struggling and about to get worse. Simply increasing the minimum wage will not only not fix the problem it will send many businesses under and make it worse.

Don't get me wrong the minimum wage isn't great, but just lifting it is not the answer, there needs to be a fundamental rethink.
 
Minimalist said:
The deficit is still stupidly high compared with 2008 - just look it up without reading any opinion pieces. The Tory policies have done feck all in the grand scheme of things despite gutting the health service and inflicting pain on ordinary people.
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ukgs_chartDp12t.png


Yep, that's what our closed hospitals, slashed police forces and schools and crushed welfare support bought us.
 
Our best hope is that Corbyn's anti-establishment focus steadies the losses in the north, while LibDems regain some of the many seats they lost to the Tories last time out. Hung Parliament? Probably not unfortunately, but a small majority would mean a meaningful vote on brexit, and a possibility of a softer deal.
 
Cheesy said:
I'm fairly sure Osborne originally supported similar borrowing to what Brown was operating at when he first became Shadow Chancellor. Was only after the economy started to take a downturn he changed his tune.
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Opposite I think. He started off with austerity and abandoned darling's plan, then gave up and just gave away money like it was going out of fashion the budget before the election when it became clear that eliminating the deficit by 2015 was just hot air and we were actually heading for another recession. He actually used fiscal stimulus to avoid that recession, which was darling's previous direction and precisely what corbyn is currently proposing.
 
Cheesy said:
True, he'd be an extreme example, but there's already been a couple of people in this thread who would normally call themselves Labour voters who seem willing to switch to a Tory vote on this occasion...and in that case I can sympathise with Labour voters because for all of Corbyn's ills and failings, he's not that extreme to warrant such a switch. Again, Labour to Lib Dem I can understand to an extent, but Labour to Tory would just indicate that said person is probably a Tory, or at least has significant Tory leanings.
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It depends. I think you work on the assumption that the public at large are heavily invested in the ideology of a particular party.

Most voters are swayed by one or two policies. My friend told me before one election that he was voting Labour because 'the misses told me too because we get child tax credits from them'.
 
Kentonio said:
Sounds like a good time to move ahead with the long overdue banning/heavy restriction on zero hour contracts.

We've been suckered into a place where people feel like asking for even small increases in their working conditions is some huge risk, while large companies profits rise year on year. Mike Ashley employees people on shitty wages/hours that can barely keep a roof over their heads and the fat feck is now a billionaire. Multinationals dodge tax while paying their employees peanuts, and their profits are in the billions.

When do we turn around and say 'enough of this shit' instead of acting like Oliver Twist standing at the gruel counter asking if we might possibly, pretty please have just a little more so we can have both somewhere to sleep AND something to eat this month?
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Banning Zero Hour contracts would be a very anti-EU immigration move funnily enough. Huge numbers of Eastern EU people work on them.. it allows them to go "home" for a few weeks every few months, and to do seasonal work, etc.

But the Tories couldn't do that because they a "pro-business"

I'd love to see the number of UK vs non UK workers on them
 
rcoobc said:
Doesn't she look tired

Exactly what I said here. They're doing an awful job. I have a lot of sympathy for the Tories, and appreciate what they have achieved (implementing a high minimum wage, raising personal allowance, etc, reduce unemployment rate)...

But they've not done a good job. They're not close to balancing the books, and won't be for another 20 years
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Good to see the broadcasters holding firm on holding the debates. ITV have said there will be a debate regardless of May being there.
 
Another problem



If we're headed to a low turnout GE...
 
rcoobc said:
Well that's the thing. Last time they were discussing this, there were lots of people saying that they would have to reduce the workforce. Small business owners would reduce staff hours, larger companies would switch to robots on checkout...

But right now, the UK has a nice, low unemployment rate.

What you say about zero hours contracts is definitely true, and for lots of people it will be companies tightening on hours that people work.

Don't forget that the apprenticeship rate is only £3.50 per hour, and the under 24 rate is less too.
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so seems like it would be a mixed bag..... i really dunno all i can say is that the people who i know who are struggling the most it isn't becuase of their hourly wage its the finding enough hours to add up to full time work on a regular enough bases, and i get the feeling this would make things even harder for them.

Could be wrong, but thats just where my mind goes when i think that policy through.
 
rcoobc said:
Banning Zero Hour contracts would be a very anti-EU immigration move funnily enough. Huge numbers of Eastern EU people work on them.. it allows them to go "home" for a few weeks every few months, and to do seasonal work, etc.

But the Tories couldn't do that because they a "pro-business"

I'd love to see the number of UK vs non UK workers on them
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So there's a good way of bringing the two sides together. Allow EU immigration but guarantee better working conditions so there's less of a draw for as many people to want to come.

You can still get seasonal workers by allowing for temporary contracts with guaranteed hours.
 
Minimalist said:
The deficit is still stupidly high compared with 2008 - just look it up without reading any opinion pieces. The Tory policies have done feck all in the grand scheme of things despite gutting the health service and inflicting pain on ordinary people.
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The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
 
Kentonio said:
Sounds like a good time to move ahead with the long overdue banning/heavy restriction on zero hour contracts.

We've been suckered into a place where people feel like asking for even small increases in their working conditions is some huge risk, while large companies profits rise year on year. Mike Ashley employees people on shitty wages/hours that can barely keep a roof over their heads and the fat feck is now a billionaire. Multinationals dodge tax while paying their employees peanuts, and their profits are in the billions.

When do we turn around and say 'enough of this shit' instead of acting like Oliver Twist standing at the gruel counter asking if we might possibly, pretty please have just a little more so we can have both somewhere to sleep AND something to eat this month?
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im completely with you, their needs to be something to be done about the way companies are abusing the employment system. I just think that raising the minimum wage before you've dealt with problems of minimum hour contracts, and the other explorations you mention among many others, is the wrong way of doing things and may cause more problems then it helps.
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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It was £50 billion in 2009, £103 billion in 2010 and 2016 was just shy of £40 billion. The estimate for 2017 is £15 billion. If we're going to put all the blame or praise on the government for the deficit then should we praise Labour for having a budget deficit of only £20 billion in 2005?
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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That's not the only measure of a good economy. The pound has tanked and the cost of living rising are more important measures to me. And there are other measures that matter more to different people. Besides, if a government is using a single, narrow point of reference for a complex economy, it stinks. That's how individuals think, not how a government should function.
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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It was supposed to be eliminated by 2015, the Tories basically ended up following Labour's deficit reduction plan having called it reckless prior to 2010.
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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I think he means debt when he says deficit.

Silva said:
That's not the only measure of a good economy. The pound has tanked and the cost of living rising are more important measures to me. And there are other measures that matter more to different people. Besides, if a government is using a single, narrow point of reference for a complex economy, it stinks. That's how individuals think, not how a government should function.
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Other things may matter to individuals more but it does not mean they matter as much. If the debt markets move against a govt then all else is secondary.

The greeks, spanish and italians can think anything they like but their govts are forced to dance to the tune of bond owners.
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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*sigh*
 


Need to upgrade their meme game a little.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
im completely with you, their needs to be something to be done about the way companies are abusing the employment system. I just think that raising the minimum wage before you've dealt with problems of minimum hour contracts, and the other explorations you mention among many others, is the wrong way of doing things and may cause more problems then it helps.
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To be honest I'm with you on the idea that it needs to be done carefully, and not just a load of huge changes all at once. It's essential though that we have government who actual want to bring about the big changes over time, and not just fob us off with some crap rearranging of the deckchairs.
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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If you have a foundation in economics as you claim that a very lazy analysis to blame Labour and claim Tories have done good work.
That majority of the deficit reduction is nothing but cyclical recovery. Imagine a deficit reducing after a recession shock horror.
 
11101 said:
The government deficit was 153 billion in 2009. Its now 57 billion and forecast to continue falling. You don't need opinion pieces to see the government has done a good job overall with the economy - opinion pieces are probably what has half this thread thinking otherwise.
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What's your source for that? ~£50bn anywhere else I've seen for 2009.
 
Traditionally I'm a Labour supporter but they don't stand a chance in my area, which has only ever voted Tory or Lib Dem. Last time I voted Lib Dem, just to keep the Tories out, so I'll probably do the same.

In all honesty, any vote feels wasted in the current climate - the opposition is a shambles. Lifetime of Tory rule.
 
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rcoobc said:
Maybe it's an old figure? Some website called the "tax payers alliance" is quoting it for 2009/10... However, the website does a get an "Amber" rating on Web of Trust, which is usually a bad sign.
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From Wiki..
The TaxPayers' Alliance is a British pressure group and think tank formed in 2004 to campaign for a low tax society. The group had about 18,000 registered supporters as of 2008,[1] and claimed to have 55,000 by September 2010.[2]

The TPA was referred to in The Guardian as "arguably the most influential pressure group in the country" in 2009.[3]
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They're funded by some of the same people who fund the Conservative Party.
 
rcoobc said:
Maybe it's an old figure? Some website called the "tax payers alliance" is quoting it for 2009/10... However, the website does a get an "Amber" rating on Web of Trust, which is usually a bad sign.
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AshfordLad said:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gove...axes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/dzls/pusf
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Seems to be different figures on different sites.

BBC graph also shows the figures being what i mentioned and the graph is from the ONS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653
 
AshfordLad said:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gove...axes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/dzls/pusf
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I just looked at that as well. Unfortunately their website is broken (typical) so can only use excel...

jEZ2u9L.png


Someone will explain how the two figures come together... I assume one includes borrowing to bail out the banks, and the other, not.

Edit - Updated the above image.

The two sets of data are as follows:

Public sector net borrowing, excluding public sector banks (£ million)

Public sector current budget deficit, excluding public sector banks (£ million)

One is borrowing, one is the deficit.
 
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I wonder how many people around the country are saying they feel their vote is wasted because the election is already over. I've observed an absolute shit ton of people say it in person or on forums, social media and various news sites in the last 24 hours. Those numbers add up and would mean something very significant if they just shut the feck up and voted on the policies they support!

The only positive out of this is that, those really energised and worried core Labour/Corbyn supporters will absolutely get out and vote. The Conservatives could actually be a victim of their own success and voter apathy if people see it as a foregone conclusion, thus not actually getting themselves to the polling stations.
 
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