General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Diane Abbott by Jack Monroe

https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT DIANE ABBOTT.

Right one of us political writer people needs to do this and it looks like it’s me. Grab a seat. I wanna talk about Diane.
Diane was first elected as an MP in 1987, the year before I was born. She has been dedicated to serving the British public for longer than I have even been alive. Hold that thought. Understand it.
Diane was the first black woman to have a seat in the House of Commons. She MADE HISTORY. Her father was welder, her mother a nurse. How many working class kids do we have in politics these days? feck all, really.
Diane went to Cambridge University to study history. IN THE SEVENTIES. In 2017 only 15 black kids went to Cambridge. Sit down and listen.
Diane worked for the Home Office in 1976. She was so smart they put her on a course to fast-track her career. (I’m just getting started.)
Diane was Race Relations Officer at the National Council for Civil Liberties from 1978 to 1980. (Big fecking job. Bet you couldn’t do it.)
Diane was a TV researcher and reporter from 1978 to 1985. I know a lot of those. They’re fast thinkers, avid fact hounds, brilliant minds.
Diane’s political career began in 1982, on Westminster City Council. Then in 1987, I’ll say it again, she became the first black female MP.

In 2008, her speech on civil liberties in the counterterrorism debate won Parliamentary Speech Of The Year in the Spectator awards.

That speech is here. Watch it, and then come back. https://t.co/qNMvtilMa1

She founded the Black Child initiative, to raise educational achievements among black kids. She shared her damn platform.

She’s been the Shadow Minister for Public health, working tirelessly to tackle Tory cuts to children’s services, maternity care, all of it.

In September 2011, the Telegraph called her ‘one of Labours best frontbench performers’. The same Telegraph now monsters her for clicks.

Diane was one of 16 MPs to write to Miliband in 2015 asking him to commit to opposing further austerity measures. She did that for all of us. Diane was one of a tiny handful of MPs to defy the Labour whip and vote AGAINST Tory austerity cuts. Those cuts are KILLING people.

Diane has consistently voted against a reduction in spending on benefits. She has consistently voted for and campaigned for higher benefits over longer periods for people unable to work due to illness/disability.

In March she raised the issue of cuts to domestic violence services, in the House of Commons: “women and children are turned away daily”.

Diane has campaigned to help unaccompanied migrant children travelling from Greece and Italy.

Diane is a skilled orator, a quick thinker, a glorious debater, a genuine public servant and a thoroughly decent woman. I mean reading through Hansard right now is a delight, some of her points and comebacks are glorious. And brilliant. And strong.

31st Jan 2017 – demanding to know why ESOL funding was being cut while the immigration debate focused on the importance of integration…

She has spoken on Leveson, terrorism, education, poverty, welfare, illness, disability, refugees, child sexual abuse, pro-choice abortion. Her campaigns include legal aid, civil liberties, fighting crime, sickle cell thallasemia, public transport, improving education. She has given speeches at Harvard University, for Christ’s sake. Have you? She has travelled to Kenya, China, Uganda, all over the world, representing the Government. Representing Britain.
 
This is nothing more or less than traditional Tory mantra. I know this, because I used to vote for them. I stopped when I realized that their entire basis of economic theory is complete bullshit.

Without a healthy working/middle class with disposable income to spend, the economy is fecked basically. Companies from the tiny shop to the sprawling multinational corporation rely on a huge number of people spending money. If you condense the money to a few people at the top end, then the economy slows to a crawl. They've tried to get around that in the UK by increasing the opportunities for banks and lenders to allow the poor to go into debt so they can keep spending. Now we have a country full of people heavily in debt and with wages that are barely high enough to service that debt, let alone consume at a healthy rate.

As for companies going abroad, we've been hearing that since I was a child, and wierdly it never happens.

But go on, cast your vote for the people who have been running Britain into the ground on the basis of economic theory that doesn't work but just coincidentally happens to make them all millionaires.

:drool::drool::drool::drool:
 
I can't imagine how nervous I'm going to be for the exit poll tomorrow.

I remember the 2015 one very well.

We were all waiting for the exit poll to show a close race and then everyone stunned at 10pm with a lot of us thinking it had to be false and they ended up doing even better than the poll predicted.
 
I can't imagine how nervous I'm going to be for the exit poll tomorrow.

Think I'm going to bed at 9 tomorrow. Sick of staying up and being disappointed and I couldn't stomach another Yougov Brexit farce.
 
I remember the 2015 one very well.

We were all waiting for the exit poll to show a close race and then everyone stunned at 10pm with a lot of us thinking it had to be false and they ended up doing even better than the poll predicted.
I just stared in horror and then exclaimed to my then girlfriend 'we're fecked'.
 
This is why when anyone says to me "increase taxes" to spend on x, I laugh. Taxes are already at damn close to a maximum level for the UK economy. If they weren't near maximum then they'd have already been increased in order to pay for something which would make a party look better to the electorate. Every single Tory minister would tax the top 1% another £50b and spend it on the NHS if it were possible - it would be the biggest gain of votes for any party ever at the cost of an inconsequential minority.

You're performing some absolutely incredible mental gymnastics in that post. You are aware that we used to tax high rate taxpayers at about double what we do now, right?
 
2015 can only be described as my 'Nam, very much a before/after moment in how I looked at politics :lol: 2016 then proceeding to be my Watergate.

Has there ever been such a wide gap between the various polls before?

I dont remember there being these kind of gaps in previous elections.

Maybe the people clued up on polls have an answer @Ubik
2001 was pretty wide-ranging, but because they all pointed to a massive Labour win it wasn't really an issue (and they still actually overstated it in % terms, though the seats remained basically the same).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2001 - Within 2 weeks of polling day there were leads from 11% to 30%
 
I remember the 2015 one very well.

We were all waiting for the exit poll to show a close race and then everyone stunned at 10pm with a lot of us thinking it had to be false and they ended up doing even better than the poll predicted.
The ringing bells of Big Ben followed by Dimbleby's surprised voice. 316 for the Conservatives. Chilling. That night was beyond awful. Can't imagine how tough '92 must have been.

At least with Brexit it was only a slow realisation on the night!
 
The ringing bells of Big Ben followed by Dimbleby's surprised voice. 316 for the Conservatives. Chilling. That night was beyond awful. Can't imagine how tough '92 must have been.

At least with Brexit it was only a slow realisation on the night!
Still so peeved I didn't make an absolute mint from betting that night.
 
Hows this then? Does a council tax not pay for council services? Didnt realise it paid for the upkeep of the house.

Of course IHT is a duplication. You think other taxes arent??

You earn a wage. You pay income tax and national insurance, but keep the remainder (say 60%)

Of that 60% you buy something and pay vat of 20 %. Or you purchase some shares and pay capital gains tax on profits (lets say 20%). Or you buy a house and pay stamp duty (lets say 10%).

Pretty much all taxes are duplications.

But inheritance isnt earned. No one is born better than anyone else. If there is anything fair in the world, its taxing inheritance

Edit - or if you are a business owner, pay corporation tax on profits (19%) then dividends tax (7.5% - 38.1%), then vat/stamp duty/ etc as you go to buy stuff.

All tax is duplicated. Rich folk complaining about being rich

The point there, was that the state is already getting its share, and will continue to do so under new ownership. The purchaser has accepted and serviced those costs, and should be able to dispose of them without additional interference. Now you can make people homeless if that is your want, but i think we can be fairer with our methods of taxation. If we are concerned about the stockpiling of property by individuals, then you consider a levy on empty homes or acquisition beyond a certain point.

Moreover, IHT fails to take into account the disparity in the market. It is essentially a London/SE focused tax, with the amassing of wealth in other places being of little relevance.
 
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chart


Indirect Taxes includes VAT which accounts for 17% about the same as National Insurance. Fuel, Tobacco and Alcohol taxes add another 7% to take the total to 24%
I'd like to see NI ring-fenced for support of the NHS and Pensions. Australia has two things I really like. One is compulsory "Super", ring-fenced exclusively for pensions. The other is compulsory voting. Also, their elections are a form of proportional representation - which seems to me waaaaay superior to our outmoded and unfair FPTP system.
 
Think I'm going to bed at 9 tomorrow. Sick of staying up and being disappointed and I couldn't stomach another Yougov Brexit farce.
I've got work at 6:00 on Friday. Don't know how or if I'll get enough sleep though. I MUST.
 
She doesn't come across well at all, I get that.

But the constant focus on her mistakes while ignoring those of Johnson/Hunt/Hammond etc and of course May herself, just shows how much the right wing press dictate the narrative.

There is undoubtedly a strong, persistent bias in the British press. But..when you are one of the top 3 members of the shadow cabinet and trying to persuade people of the case for change, you need to do a lot better than this. Can you imagine Blair or even Kinnock appointing someone so fragile under pressure as shadow home secretary? If she thinks this is difficult, how will she cope with being blamed for things largely beyond her control like terrorism attacks or immigration numbers?
 
My delivery route today included a lot of hospitals and schools in Wiltshire. Depressing. Of the four people I asked, only one said they'd be voting for Labour. The other three said they didn't like or trust Corbyn. When I asked why they all said they "just don't like/trust him". fecking media.
 
You're performing some absolutely incredible mental gymnastics in that post. You are aware that we used to tax high rate taxpayers at about double what we do now, right?

We used to have a tax rate that was twice what it currently us. That doesn't mean we used to tax them more.

Tax rates vs tax receipts are two very different things.

It is times like this that the smiley limit on this place just isn't enough. You know the Tories are the ones in blue


For one second ignore the names of the parties and think about what each one wants to achieve: as much power as possible.

Now think logically as to how one would go about achieving it. Step 1: Ignore the bottom 20% as they don't vote. Step 2: Ignore the young because they don't vote. Step 3: Get as much tax as possible from the top 5% as they represent a huge tax windfall for a small amount of vote losses. Result: you have 75% of the population who you're looking to try and make as happy as possible.

The Tories couldn't give a crap about losing the votes of 400,000 of the richest voters if they gained the votes of 2,000,000 of he middle earners. Plus who are the 400,000 going to vote for anyway? Labour?

Taxing the top 5% is the solution to all parties' problems. Unfortunately they aren't taxable in reality (more than they already are being taxed).

A cynical ploy would be to tell get electorate that you can extract more tax from these people. A more realistic play is to choose another group of people to tax or cut spending.

Behind Corbyns plans lie a large tax burden on the bottom 20% among others through potentially lost jobs (increasing minimum wage), potentially increased prices (increased tax burden on companies = higher prices) and/or potentially a squeeze on the middle earners as these are the people who can't avoid tax so always end up funding extra Government spending.

The key thing to ask yourself is are people generally self-serving and power hungry and what gives them more power and how is the best way of achieving this? If the answer is yes then you'll soon realise the same people will pay for extra Government spending irrespective of who you vote for.
 
Every election it's the same. They all say a load of stuff to get peoples attention to vote for them and never actually carry any of it out. Corbyn's manifesto, how are they going to pay for all that without putting the country into masses of debt? As for the Tories, this election has been put together as one massive ego trip for May, she thinks she's going to get a huge landslide but the way things have been going (not showing up to the debates, backtracking on dementia and cuts to our emergency services) I'm at a loss as to why anyone would vote for that party.

It's not that simple.

First of all, the Labour manifesto is costed. Secondly, if you invest in infrastructure then it can pay for itself over time; the value it gives back to the economy can be greater than the debt potentially incurred in paying for it (plus potentially interest as well).

As far as the Tories are concerned May wanted a greater majority so that she wouldn't have to worry about rebellious back-benchers so much, and also so that she could trot out that she has a "mandate" for just about anything she wants to do.
 
My delivery route today included a lot of hospitals and schools in Wiltshire. Depressing. Of the four people I asked, only one said they'd be voting for Labour. The other three said they didn't like or trust Corbyn. When I asked why they all said they "just don't like/trust him". fecking media.
Apart from Swindon, Wiltshire has pretty much always been blue. Wouldn't really get wound up. It's like someone going to Liverpool, asking four people and getting frustrated when they say they're not voting the Conservatives.
 
My delivery route today included a lot of hospitals and schools in Wiltshire. Depressing. Of the four people I asked, only one said they'd be voting for Labour. The other three said they didn't like or trust Corbyn. When I asked why they all said they "just don't like/trust him". fecking media.
Did you read The Express, The Sun and The Daily Mail front page today? :rolleyes:
 
We used to have a tax rate that was twice what it currently us. That doesn't mean we used to tax them more.

Tax rates vs tax receipts are two very different things.



For one second ignore the names of the parties and think about what each one wants to achieve: as much power as possible

Your logic is flawed. The Tories cut taxes for the top and hammer the middle with indirect taxes. You've said yourself the bottom 20% don't vote so there is no danger in upping their taxes and cutting the services they rely on. The middle classes are sold the dream that one day they'll be the at the top, they don't realise how badly they are being hit as the tax is indirect
 
There is undoubtedly a strong, persistent bias in the British press. But..when you are one of the top 3 members of the shadow cabinet and trying to persuade people of the case for change, you need to do a lot better than this. Can you imagine Blair or even Kinnock appointing someone so fragile under pressure as shadow home secretary? If she thinks this is difficult, how will she cope with being blamed for things largely beyond her control like terrorism attacks or immigration numbers?

I'd say pretty badly, judging from what I've seen. Or, to put it another way, about 100x better than Boris in his role.

Hopefully this illness thing is more to do with moving her away from such a key position.
 
My point isn't about social media psychology. It's that there seems to be the same level of Tory bell-ends who're talking shit as previous elections; but there appears to be a huge increase in left wing morons who believe others aren't entitled to their own views without ridiculous levels of condescension and abuse.

This large increase that many people are seeing will in my view lead to a larger portion of "shy" Tory voters and could well cause the polls to be significantly wrong.

It's why I was considering putting a few quid on 390 - 419 Tory seats which would be a majority of over 100 seats.

I never understood the premise that Tories could be both loud, emotional & opinionated and still have a large portion of 'shy Tories'.

But lefties are only one dimensional.
 
She doesn't come across well at all, I get that.

But the constant focus on her mistakes while ignoring those of Johnson/Hunt/Hammond etc and of course May herself, just shows how much the right wing press dictate the narrative.

Exactly.

There's never a response given that highlights this exact issue. We all know what it is, and nobody will admit it because she's just an easy target.

It's disgusting.
 
It's not that simple.

First of all, the Labour manifesto is costed. Secondly, if you invest in infrastructure then it can pay for itself over time; the value it gives back to the economy can be greater than the debt potentially incurred in paying for it (plus potentially interest as well).

As far as the Tories are concerned May wanted a greater majority so that she wouldn't have to worry about rebellious back-benchers so much, and also so that she could trot out that she has a "mandate" for just about anything she wants to do.

The greatest trick the tories have managed over the years is to pursuade people that letting the rich stockpile all the money, while selling off anything of value in the country, makes them 'good with the economy'.

Nationalisation need not be expensive, if done when contracts expire, for example. In the long run, we will all benefit from removing the profit making companies from the equation.
 
The point there, was that the state is already getting its share, and will continue to do so under new ownership. The purchaser has accepted and serviced those costs, and should be able to dispose of them without additional interference. Now you can make people homeless if that is your want, but i think we can be fairer with our methods of taxation. If we are concerned about the stockpiling of property by individuals, then you consider a levy on empty homes or acquisition beyond a certain point.

Moreover, IHT fails to take into account the disparity in the market. It is essentially a London/SE focused tax, with the amassing of wealth in other places being of little relevance.
But isnt taxing the richer places and distributing that wealth to the poorer areas a good thing?

And actually i disagree. If we left the main family home alone, and taxes all other assets at 20%, that would apply to everyone equally. Whether you live in Northern Ireland or London