General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Minimalist said:
So you want me to get mad about the reality of the internet?

And wait a minute, you can't be seriously suggesting Brexiteers/Tories and the like aren't posting similar shite (only against Labour etc) everywhere?
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No, but the tone of the very people who are supposed to be progressive and moral appears to be getting increasingly hateful.

Here's a short story. I used to vote Conservative, but after 2015, joined the Liberal Democrats for a short time, because at heart, I'm very socially liberal. I went to three meetings before I realised just how out of place I was, all I heard was "Right wing prick this" and "Conservative cnuts that" - these people were far more hateful than anybody I'd met from the right.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't pompous Tories that look down on those they consider beneath them, but what I am saying, is that some younger modern liberals appear to be losing sight of the very thing they're supposed to be championing - free speech itself! Everywhere on social media, I see visceral hate towards Conservative politicians, members and even voters. There's a guy I work with, who, at work seems like a likeable, reasoable bloke, but last night made a status update ranting on about how Corbyn has to win and any 'Tory voting cnuts' in his friend list will get deleted.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, I guess I just want to share my observations.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
Not when it's either completely unobjective, or just utter bullshit/fake news (sites like The Canary)

Or things like this:

d9db16cc35889ee02b84d98e90ad4543.jpg


Which is completely unfounded (Rees-Mogg has nothing to do with Wentworth Woodhouse, it's held by the National Trust) but the meme been shared on Facebook more than 50k times, and the comments section is an angry meltdown with the likes of "feck RICH TORY SCUM" and "Can't wait for Corbyn to oust this crooked shithouse lot!!!!111"
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That's not strictly true though is it? I've done 5 minutes of research and uncovered the following:

- Mr Rees-Mogg’s mother-in-law, inherited the family fortune but not Wentworth Woodhouse. She is one of the trustees of the Wentworth Woodhouse Preservation Trust, which has raised £7m to acquire the house.
- One of his children has Wentworth as a middle named implying that he clearly has a fondness to the building.
- He had no involvement in the campaign for the grant of the £7.6 million.

So what exactly is wrong with the image?
 
RedSky said:
That's not strictly true though is it? I've done 5 minutes of research and uncovered the following:

- Mr Rees-Mogg’s mother-in-law, inherited the family fortune but not Wentworth Woodhouse. She is one of the trustees of the Wentworth Woodhouse Preservation Trust, which has raised £7m to acquire the house.
- One of his children has Wentworth as a middle named implying that he clearly has a fondness to the building.
- He had no involvement in the campaign for the grant of the £7.6 million.

So what exactly is wrong with the image?
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- It says Rees-Mogg himself has been awarded the grant. Which isn't true, his wife might be a member of the trust which was awarded the money, but she's by no means the owner.
- A fondness for the building isn't ownership of the building.
- If you've divined he had no involvement in the campaign, what exactly has he done wrong?
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
Now I'm not saying that there aren't pompous Tories that look down on those they consider beneath them, but what I am saying, is that some younger modern liberals appear to be losing sight of the very thing they're supposed to be championing - free speech itself! Everywhere on social media, I see visceral hate towards Conservative politicians, members and even voters. There's a guy I work with, who, at work seems like a likeable, reasoable bloke, but last night made a status update ranting on about how Corbyn has to win and any 'Tory voting cnuts' in his friend list will get deleted.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, I guess I just want to share my observations.
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I'm not sure either. It reads a bit like 'since when does free speech include being allowed to say you detest certain political views?'.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
- It says Rees-Mogg himself has received the grant. Which isn't true, his wife might be a trustee, but she's by no means the owner.
- A fondness for the building isn't ownership of the building.
- If you've divined he had no involvement in the campaign, what exactly has he done wrong?
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- It doesn't say he received the grant at all? It's poor choice of wording but it never states he owns it. It's ambiguous though.
- A fondness of the building which his family used to own does mean he is biased towards that building.
- His family is involved in the campaign.

I'm sure there are better examples of lying, but that isn't one of them. Everything that's in that poster is true (although not sure about the benefits given I couldn't be arsed to research that).
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
No, but the tone of the very people who are supposed to be progressive and moral appears to be getting increasingly hateful.
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Of course there's hate and frustration. People are fed up of the disgusting policies and tactics employed by the tories.

Where the hell is this idea that liberals have to be pleasant and aren't allowed an emotional reaction come from?
 
RedSky said:
- It doesn't say he received the grant at all? It's poor choice of wording but it never states he owns it. It's ambiguous though.
- A fondness of the building which his family used to own does mean he is biased towards that building.
- His family is involved in the campaign.
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Sorry you're right, it doesn't say he was awarded the grant...

...but his family never lived there. His wife's family used to live there, several generations ago. This isn't about 'doing up' his 'wifes home' - it's about renovating a public building of which they have a particular affection for.

I don't see how campaigning in aid of a building you have a fondness for is such a bad thing? The implication is that he's somehow crooked, and like I said, the comments section has a bunch of people who all seem to think he's pocketed the cash for himself.
 
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Smores said:
Of course there's hate and frustration. People are fed up of the disgusting policies and tactics employed by the tories.

Where the hell is this idea that liberals have to be pleasant and aren't allowed an emotional reaction come from?
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I never said they had to be, but blind hate isn't really very objective is it? I don't find it very open minded to cast all of your Conservative voting friends as 'sub-human Tory scum'
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
Sorry you're right, it doesn't say he was awarded the grant...

...but his family never lived there. His wife's family used to live there, several generations ago.

I don't see how campaigning in aid of a building you have a fondness for is such a bad thing? The implication is that he's somehow crooked, and like I said, the comments section has a bunch of people who all seem to think he's pocketed the cash for himself.
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Literally two generations ago! His Mother In Law is on the board to preserve the building, her father owned the building! His kid has been named after the building. It's a conflict of interest.

But there is basically nothing wrong with that poster, it's all fact. I personally don't care, I don't mind buildings like that being preserved. But given the corruption charges flying around the Tory Government his word doesn't unfortunately mean a great deal for me.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
I never said they had to be, but blind hate isn't really very objective is it? I don't find it very open minded to cast all of your Conservative voting friends as 'sub-human Tory scum'
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But you're talking about reactionary behaviour so openmindnesses doesn't really come into it. I'm certainly not unpleasant to tory/ukip family and friends but using indirect hostile language towards a group indirectly whose ideals you hate is hardly shocking. Heck we have a whole musical genre for it.
 
RedSky said:
- It doesn't say he received the grant at all? It's poor choice of wording but it never states he owns it. It's ambiguous though.
- A fondness of the building which his family used to own does mean he is biased towards that building.
- His family is involved in the campaign.

I'm sure there are better examples of lying, but that isn't one of them. Everything that's in that poster is true (although not sure about the benefits given I couldn't be arsed to research that).
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'Poor choice of wording':lol:Come on, you know it's inflammatory shit designed to give the impression that he personally trousers the money to get new wallpaper etc...
 
Not entirely sure BBC are justified in postponing tonight's Question Time. Especially after showing Shop Well For Less and Points of View earlier.
 
Oscie said:
Not entirely sure BBC are justified in postponing tonight's Question Time. Especially after showing Shop Well For Less and Points of View earlier.
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National campaigning is suspended for the day, so surely they had no choice?
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
No, but the tone of the very people who are supposed to be progressive and moral appears to be getting increasingly hateful.
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Not sure it's hateful. Angry it is most definitely.

Don't be under the illusion that we're supposed to join hands and sing songs when differing significantly on how to take the country forward. Even more so, differing massively on how we treat the most vulnerable in society.

I never and will never look at the Tories or their voters as evil. I will, however fight (even if just in conversation) against Tory nonsense. Frankly, I would be against any political party that holds the policies they do. Their toff-like sound and appearance actually never concerned me - there's plenty of them in Labour. I do think the typical Tory politican hasn't a clue about how to relate to the middle and working classes but I'll leave that for another day.

Here's a short story. I used to vote Conservative, but after 2015, joined the Liberal Democrats for a short time, because at heart, I'm very socially liberal. I went to three meetings before I realised just how out of place I was, all I heard was "Right wing prick this" and "Conservative cnuts that" - these people were far more hateful than anybody I'd met from the right.
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The right literally will call people who lean left (at all) mentally ill, immature, slowflakes who ideally want to live in Narnia (or a safe space, whichever is available).

Now I'm not saying that there aren't pompous Tories that look down on those they consider beneath them, but what I am saying, is that some younger modern liberals appear to be losing sight of the very thing they're supposed to be championing - free speech itself! Everywhere on social media, I see visceral hate towards Conservative politicians, members and even voters. There's a guy I work with, who, at work seems like a likeable, reasoable bloke, but last night made a status update ranting on about how Corbyn has to win and any 'Tory voting cnuts' in his friend list will get deleted.
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Free speech never meant you could be a beast without having the mob with torches at your door. As much as I've alluded to mob violence there, provided it doesn't reach that stage I don't see what the problem is. The best arguments rarely involve calling someone a cnut anyway.

Look there's still a significant portion of the Tories who want to bring back fox hunting for fecks sake. They are cnuts! Yes taring them with all the same brush is wrong but generally it's difficult to not sympathise with the anger.

Oh and just delete the self-important prick off Facebook. Who the hell is still making soapbox statuses about removing people from their friends list in 2017? Maybe I'm getting old...
 
Jippy said:
Fair enough on that instance. There is a level of vitriol, even in this thread though, which is unpleasant.
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I have a major problem with a Government Cutting services to Hospitals, Social Services, schools and the Emergency Services while giving tax breaks to big business.
I remember going to a school where the roofs leaked, the wind blew in through the windows and the heating was broken more often than not. We used to wear outdoor coats in the classrooms. I remember hospitals that had paint peeling off of the walls and signs of damp and decay on every wall and window.
Do I have a problem with a Government that historically underfunded Essential services? Yeah you bet I do and I'm not going to apologise for it.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I have a major problem with a Government Cutting services to Hospitals, Social Services, schools and the Emergency Services while giving tax breaks to big business.
I remember going to a school where the roofs leaked, the wind blew in through the windows and the heating was broken more often than not. We used to wear outdoor coats in the classrooms. I remember hospitals that had paint peeling off of the walls and signs of damp and decay on every wall and window.
Do I have a problem with a Government that historically underfunded Essential services? Yeah you bet I do and I'm not going to apologise for it.
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Some of our lectures at Durham were in a 13th century building with a broken window and it was fecking freezing.

I understand all of that- one of the class rooms at the primary I went to was a temporary prefab building and it's still there now, 30-odd years later. Doesn't necessarily explain the vitriol. I agree with the poster earlier bemoaning that some aspects of the left seem the most hate-filled of all.
 
What are the thought in the UK now, especially after these last two attacks so close to the election? Will that swing undecideds more to Tories or the other way?
 
utdalltheway said:
What are the thought in the UK now, especially after these last two attacks so close to the election? Will that swing undecideds more to Tories or the other way?
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My guess is neither. The first attack didn't seem to change things. The murder of Cox didn't seem to change things. I think we're reasonably good at not being shocked by external events, when it comes to the ballot box.
 
Jippy said:
At least he's not politicising the attack, unlike 'despicable' May, I guess:rolleyes:
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I thought they had a non campaign agreement which May broke this morning? For what it's worth, I think May had to say something this morning, where she went wrong was critising Corbyn in her speech which seemed like trivial point scoring when she should have risen above and instead done her job as the PM and not as an Electoral Campaigner. Tonight was the time to point score if they felt the need to attack Labour policies.

I'm probably biased though as I can't stand her. :)
 
RedSky said:
I thought they had a non campaign agreement which May broke this morning? For what it's worth, I think May had to say something this morning, where she went wrong was critising Corbyn in her speech which seemed like trivial point scoring when she should have risen above and instead done her job as the PM and not as an Electoral Campaigner. Tonight was the time to point score if they felt the need to attack Labour policies.

I'm probably biased though as I can't stand her. :)
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Peddling her policies in a speech when she wasn't supposed to was where she went wrong.
 
Jippy said:
Some of our lectures at Durham were in a 13th century building with a broken window and it was fecking freezing.

I understand all of that- one of the class rooms at the primary I went to was a temporary prefab building and it's still there now, 30-odd years later. Doesn't necessarily explain the vitriol. I agree with the poster earlier bemoaning that some aspects of the left seem the most hate-filled of all.
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They are never going to replace a 13th century building the best you will get is new glass in the windows.

Yeah I remember the prefab classrooms. We need to make sure that all pupils have a positive environment that enables them to be engaged in learning not chattering at the cold. You don't achieve that by cutting the funding to schools.

I try not to spew vitriol though. I have always said that once you raise your voice you have lost the argument. That doesn't mean that I have never raised my voice though just that I have always regretted doing it.
 
Fergies Gum said:
There is a culture among quite a significant pro-Corbyn support on social media which has turned into a cult like and hateful movement.

The fake news being spread, harassment of journalists, calling polling companies fake and propaganda, claiming certain polls are rigged, antisemitism.

Scarily seeing a lot of similarities between these Corbyn fans and what Trump fans were doing last year during the election campaign.
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You must be on a completely different one to me.
 
I'll be keeping an eye out for the South East Cornwall result on Thursday night.
 
RedSky said:
I thought they had a non campaign agreement which May broke this morning? For what it's worth, I think May had to say something this morning, where she went wrong was critising Corbyn in her speech which seemed like trivial point scoring when she should have risen above and instead done her job as the PM and not as an Electoral Campaigner. Tonight was the time to point score if they felt the need to attack Labour policies.

I'm probably biased though as I can't stand her. :)
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What did she say? That's appalling.
 
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