Gears of War 2

kishankhagram said:
is the footage you have seen of both those games in-game?
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Nothing has been shown of R2 in terms of the campaign. Comparing GeoW2 to Killzone 2 in terms of its graphical prowess on the technical level is best not done on a forum such as this to be quite honest, but if someone wants to do such a comparison, I would suggest they make a thread about it rather than hijacking this one.
 
Redlambs said:
Really? I would ask to point out what's better in those two above games, but I can't be arsed to get into that debate.
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Looks like a slightly beefed up version of the original at first glance to me, however, why is it that only Epic seems to be able to get the best out of their own engine? I thought that their main focus in this game was physics though, destructible environments and flesh damage etc. isn't that what the focus was for the additions made to UE3.5?
 
WeasteDevil said:
Looks like a slightly beefed up version of the original at first glance to me, however, why is it that only Epic seems to be able to get the best out of their own engine? I thought that their main focus in this game was physics though, destructible environments and flesh damage etc. isn't that what the focus was for the additions made to UE3.5?
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I don't know about supposedly destructible environments (you'd think someone would have done it properly by now), but going by the videos there's a hell of a lot more going on than in GeoW 1. Also, the physics do look much better than the stiff feel of the first, but of course that's going only on the video again.

Interesting you mention AA, in the XNA they state that with the 360 version you get 4x AA "for free", which was a known thing from the start. Now I can tell you that not all my 360 games use 4x AA. Once I've thrown around a few dynamic lights (I have animated models up and running), I'll do a test and let you know what I find ;)
 
The for free thing depends on the resolution you are using doesn't it amongst other things? You can only fit so much data into that 10MB of eDRAM. The ROPs are on the same die, thus the 256GB/s and "free" AA (Halo 3 HDR solution for example didn't fit in there).
 
WeasteDevil said:
The for free thing depends on the resolution you are using doesn't it amongst other things? You can only fit so much data into that 10MB of eDRAM. The ROPs are on the same die, thus the 256GB/s and "free" AA (Halo 3 HDR solution for example didn't fit in there).
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I believe it's "free" at native 720p, or that's supposed to be the case. For the UE, the developers are pretty much saying that they go without it because of "next generation" rendering techniques. By that I presume they mean using other effects (like HDR), then coming up with some other way of getting rid of the jaggies. Don't a lot of developers do some kind of fogging on the PS3 to help reduce them, rather than AA?


Here's another statement from MS:

Enabling antialiasing on the Xbox 360 will have a small performance impact. Enabling antialiasing on PCs may have a large impact on your game performance.
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I'll do some testing soon.
 
Redlambs said:
I believe it's "free" at native 720p, or that's supposed to be the case. For the UE, the developers are pretty much saying that they go without it because of "next generation" rendering techniques. By that I presume they mean using other effects (like HDR), then coming up with some other way of getting rid of the jaggies. Don't a lot of developers do some kind of fogging on the PS3 to help reduce them, rather than AA?
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Third party developers do the fogging a lot yes. RSX has AA support in hardware, but as far as I recall off the top of my head, you can't do AA with FP16, thus why Marco Salvi came up with NAO32 (no alpha blending here though). The big first party titles all use AA, normally 2x. GT5 for example does 4x in 720p and 2x in 1080p - how Polyphony get their striking HDR I do not know.

Flip side, XB360 does not do FP16 because it can't fit into the eDRAM without tiling and has no blending support, so instead of doing the NAO32 trick in Halo 3, they do tone mapping as found in photography by rendering the scene twice at high and low exposures then mapping them. Great, gives alpha blending, but no AA and a 640p resolution (again, not enough eDRAM).

This generation of consoles came 2 years too soon, it's all still very fiddly because of cost.
 
IGN Preview

"This is where the magic happens." For some reason this truism rattled unshakably around my head like beans in a tin can over the entire day spent at Epic Games. We'd been flown to the US to be the first journalists in the world to get hands on with Gears of War 2 multiplayer. My strange mantra was often a reminding prompt – there's absolutely nothing cool whatsoever about Epic's HQ.

Based in the beautiful, but nothingy backwoods of Cary, North Carolina (Wiki it: there's lashings of green, wide roads and naff all else), it's a bland, beige building nestling amongst similarly uninspiring science park real estate. But the mantra also came back as a whooping endorsement when we finally picked up a controller and the fragging began.

Some flavour: Epic truly is indistinguishable from just about every other developer we've visited. Two storey, science park monochrome blahchitecture. A reception bristling with heavy, crystal blob game of the year awards and life-size character figure detritus. The desks of the developer staff are strewn with comic book, anime and geek movie vinyl figures. There's a kitchen creaking at the seams with free sugar and caffeine-rich snacks – the ADHD-inspiring engine room. A rank of arcade machines line up next to the most pristine gym I've ever seen in my life (make of that what you will) and positively cathedral-like, gargantuan loos, with magazine racks of game mag serving as "inspirational" reading. It's tidier than most, but that's no great endorsement. And they knew we were coming, so nagging had probably ensued.

But then, of course, bouffant-haired lead games designer Cliffy B bounds into the room, and the Gears of War hype machine roars into life like the mighty V12 of the brand new burgundy Lamborghini convertible he just parked outside. Which, for the record, not a single man in the room begrudges him.

"New. Better. More. That's not the sexiest way to sell Gears of War 2 to the press, so we came up with this: Bigger! Better! More badass!" goes Cliffy's opening gambit. And when he adds: "Gears 2 is just an absolute f**king blast!" we know today's going to be fun. We're of course here to play multiplayer, but first up is a quick briefing of the campaign, which was news then, but most of which you've probably heard by now. Mankind is past the brink. The Locust's boreholes are swallowing entire cities and only Jacinto remains. Not only did the Lightmass Bomb triggered in Gears not wipe out the Locust, its fallout has infected the remaining human population with a debilitating disease – rust lung – and the Locust have returned with a scarier new force. It's going to be, if you pardon the pun, epic. " We want this to be an entire war, not just a four man squad behind enemy lines," embellishes Cliffy.

The game's famous cover system's been improved, so when you tremble behind stone blocks, you're moved off the corner so are less open to flanking shots. "The system of cover was effective," explains Cliffy, "but we wanted to add the final ten per cent to turn it from really, really good, to phenomenal." Then he adds: "Hands down, this is the best cover system in the business." That's my boy. They've even got a handily bullet-pointed slide: "Campaign: improved visuals. Grander in scope. More intimate violence. New characters. New player vehicles. New monsters. New weapons." Sweet.

Then the multiplayer chat begins. We'll be playing four game modes – War Zone, Meat Flag, Wingman and Guardian – across three of the eventual 12 maps Gridlock, River and Security. So to break it down. War Zone is classic team fragging. Now maps will host five-on-five match-ups, an extra player a team. Why? "People are used to teams of five. And they seemed to work better on the maps."

Meat Flag is particularly Epician take on traditional Capture The Flag game types, in that the 'flag' is a person. Who really doesn't want to be captured. These will consist of yet-to-be-decided characters from the campaign (we had Franklin, the service station attendant from Gears, but that could change) and having a live flag is a genius touch. Barreling towards the focus point of a map, there's usually an amusing scrap between teams attempting to control the flag, but add into the mix a tooled-up flag that's also trying it darndest to kill you, and it spices up proceedings no end. Manage to nab your man and he'll struggle, kick and trash talk you till you score, or you're forced to drop him, i.e, you're dead.
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Wingman is another new take on multiplayer. Consisting of five teams of two, you have to balance the aggressiveness of going after the other teams, while protecting your partner. If you go down, he can revive you. If he dies, you're on your own and you've let your man down. It's a brilliantly inspired tactical bout. Five teams jostling on a medium-sized map keeps the battles interesting and continual, and the nature of the match-up forces you to work as a team and co-ordinate a measured combination of concerted attack, while trying to watch your partner's back. Simple aggression will certainly result in at least one teammate's casualty. Then you're stuffed.

Finally, Guardian is another five-on-five throwdown, only one player is the Guardian. As long as he's alive, you can respawn. Once he bites the dust, you're on your last life. And if your Guardian survives, you've still got to clean up the opposition, who may well take your man out. Then it gets frantic. The key here is for the Guardian to keep back in the more protected rear, but as the Guardian is the best player from the last round, just you try holding him back.

All-new is the much vaunted chainsaw duel. Both COG and Locust characters pack chainsaw-equipped hardware, and melée at the same time and the duel animation kicks in. The whole battle – hitting the B button like mental – lasts around three seconds, long enough to challenge and find a worthy victor, but short enough to not leave you vulnerable in an enemy's sights for too long. Then the death animation begins. We saw Locust cut cleanly in half, crossways and the classic meat drenching the camera, straight down the chest, messy incision.

Yup, we can confirm, the violence has remained intact. Something, in our sensitive Manhunt and prostitute-swording times, Cliffy's quick to defend: "The violence is slapstick. It's fun, not nauseous. These are ridiculously large space marines cutting lizards in half!" Locust now have individual finishing animations, and they are cool and varied. Rather than just stepping on heads, you get COGs kneeing enemies in the chest, flipping them over and curb stomping. Sometimes a downed enemy takes multiple fists to the face till it's just meat, and "meat fest" is the only way to describe grenade sticks – which you can also now do in a retaliatory nature from beyond the grave. Nice touch. Get downed, and you can beg for mercy from your opposition. Hmm… what do you think?

In line with the improved cover system, maps now feature portable shields. These are Viking-like protecting screens which you either hide behind and advance, pistol spitting, or pick up and slam down into the ground for a respite from hot lead.

Our first play is the new Gridlock map: by a country mile the most popular map from Gears. "Gridlock is the one de facto map to play Gears Of War on, the map by which all other maps will be judged," reckons Cliffy. "So here's Gridlock 2.0." And 2.0 actually comes to define our day. Epic may well have cunning extras up their sleeves, but the experience, without stating the bleedingly obvious, is Gears 2.0. That's not to say it's not impressive. Everything's flexed to vein-bulging tenseness and you can see the fruits of Epic's toil in a glance.

The graphics are a clear improvement on the last outing, which is no mean boast – Gears was a supermodel amongst console games, with a rare and lasting beauty. This one is Agyness Deyn to Gears' Kate Moss: the next big thing. And that's because, contrary to established thinking, they've moved away from realistic lighting, to what Cliffy described as "movie lighting" – a look which concentrates on making characters look better as opposed to realistic. Duh. Water now responds to footfalls in a beautifully realistic way and shoot a sandbag and it leaks sand till it empties. Still, clearly graphically, pictures speak louder than words, so drool over the comparison shots while remembering, this is multiplayer, not even campaign shots. And wonder.
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Gears multiplayer wasn't broken, so in that aspect they haven't fixed it. But neither have they thrown the baby out with the bathwater. The experience is tighter, sharper and more concentrated. But also very familiar. But that's the thing - innovate too much and you can spoil the experience. But don't innovate enough and fans looking for new thrills will feel disappointed and short changed. The best barometer is sitting back and watching the rest of the party playing. And Epic can breathe a sigh of relief. This works. From expressions of pained concentration, through constipation face, vinegar face to whooping like a lottery-winning macau monkey, no geek left unsatisfied. Including IGN.

The slightly rubbish party system of the last has been improved, so you can now play ranked and unranked matches with your buds, maps can be vetoed in the lobby - a welcome nod to Halo 3 - while the spectator camera is now actually useful. Security cameras have been removed in place of "battle cameras" – a series of cams you can switch between which either follow the action in an eerily human-like edit, or you can switch between, to learn maps quicker. Or failing that, switch to "ghost cam" and zoom, god-like and disembodied around the levels. There should also be some kind of screen grab camera, with shots rated by the game based on framing, gore and action, which you should be able to post online. Epic were coy about this, so we'll no doubt hear more about that interactive aspect of the game soon.

So, the levels. Gridlock you know. It's the same, only purdier. Security we didn't like so much, but mostly because its complicated layout requires study and practice – something difficult to do when you're thrown into a game against Epic's best. It certainly has potential. Hit buttons to lower laser walls and you can get at the tastier hardware – rocket launchers and flamethrowers, mostly. Yup, squealing, bedwetting fanboys: flamethrowers – before heading to the central area to, you know, do your stuff.

Our favourite was actually River, which takes the circular benefits of Gridlock to new levels. A river runs through the middle under a bridge (under which the sweet hardware resides) for instant flash points, but on each corner there's a barn-like structure for sniper positions and long range shooting which really threw up the best combination of hiding, sniping and all out chainsaw gore splatter. Certainly a future classic.

Later we had a bit of a (frustratingly brief) sit down with Cliffy, to pose some specific questions. Like, how on earth do you cope with the pressure of making a sequel to a five million-selling game? "To be honest, it's fun because in it's own unique way, there's no pressure. We completely ignore it and follow our hearts." What lessons did you learn from the first game? "We wanted a blockbuster pace, and in doing so, we lost the story a bit. So that's one of the lessons we learned. This time round there's more repetition. Games aren't movies and aren't consumed in a single sitting. So secondary characters will remind you about stuff, which is re-established in plot cues. Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we're not doing. Passive entertainment is on its way out – you need to hook up with this web 2.0 stuff."

You still squeezing good stuff from the Xbox 360 hardware? "Oh yeah, we're going from the bowels of the earth to the highest peaks of Sera, producing those beautiful environmental money shots. We want to create places where you'd want to make your home, and sip coffee in the morning."

One final question: where's the semi-colon? It's the universal law of sequels. "I really fought that one. It wasn't going to be Gears 2: Attack At Jacinto. That's cheesy and it's cheap. There are certain instances where it's okay to go for something a little pulpy, like the Star Wars movies, but every time it came up, I said, what do you want to call it? Gears Of War 2: Electric Boogaloo?"
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Good graphic does not equal good gameplay. Although the original GoW worked so it should be good. It is just so scary to see so many people equal good games with good graphics.
Design is king
 
Yeah Epic is one of the few good developers out there, although Unreal one and two werent that great....
 
I can't wait till this game comes out. I'll admit I'm something of a GeoW fanboy. I fecking loved the first game, played the singleplayer and co-op campaigns through on all difficulties. It looks absolutely stunning. I have to try and downsize my expectations a little though. I'm always afraid that if I expect too much it will only end up as a disappointment.
 
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C&VG Preview

It was painful. We wanted to tell you about all the never-before-seen Gears of War 2 levels, modes and gameplay features we sampled at Microsoft's Redmond office recently, but we couldn't because of those bloody embargo thingies.

Breaking the embargo would probably have gotten us all killed, but now the chains are off we can finally reveal Gears of war's E3 secrets.

First up is a new mode that had us sat in front of the screen, wide-eyed and unflinching for hours: the brand new five-player co-op mode called Horde. You and up to four other players, in any multiplayer map, get to fight against waves of CPU-controlled enemies.

Microsoft described it as Gears of War meets Geometry Wars. The various beasts in the single-player campaign spawn into the map, coming at you and your team from all angles and forcing you to work together to defeat them, with each wave being tougher to beat. Like co-op in the first game's campaign, players can revive each other an unlimited number of times, but if you all die in a single round it's over.

It sounds simple but it's more ingenious than you think. It's all about working together and staying close to each other, but you're each individually scored on the number of enemies you kill, giving the hot-headed players a competitive element to enjoy.

It's bloody tough though. In earlier waves you'll only have small groups of Locust Drones and Wretches to deal with. But a few waves later you'll start to feel the strain. Imagine taking on two Boomers, a pack of explosive Lambent Wretches, three or four Torque Bow-wielding Theron guards and the odd Drone or two packing a flame thrower or sniper rifle. It's mental without including the new enemies (more about that later).

An enemy count in the top left corner of the screen tracks how many beasts left in the current wave - usually between the 15 and 20 mark at the most. When you kill the last enemy of a wave, you hear that distinctive victory chime and it all goes quiet for around a minute before the next wave turns up.

We loved these parts the most. It's tense - you have no idea what might appear next, or where it'll attack from, but you have no choice but to break off and scout around for ammo. It's a moment of both calm and uncomfortable vulnerability.

You'll soon know when someone has wondered too far from the pack though - first you hear the grunt of an enemy who's spotted his prey, followed by screams of your pals on XBL headset as the four of you rush to their rescue.

It was in Horde mode that we got our first glimpse of some of the new enemies you'll see in the single-player campaign. If you thought Wretches were a pain in the ass, you'll have to deal with another race of agile little beasts called Tickers, named after a constant ticking sound they make with their teeth.

They're like giant demonic caterpillars with explosives strapped to their backs. One well-aimed shot can make them explode, but they're nippy and dart from one point of cover to another so fast you barely see them. All you hear is that tick getting closer and closer.

On the bigger side of the scale, Boomers mean business in the sequel. There are now multiple variants of Boomer that carry different weapons. We saw Boomers with the flame thrower, which are so tough that you can't always take them down before they get close enough to torch you to a crisp.

Another attacks with a giant melee weapon and a shield, guarding themselves as they slowly move close to you, then charging you at the last moment (and they're scarily quick) to smash your face in.

They're not the biggest enemies either. Bloodmounts are bigger. They're like land versions of Reavers - those tough flying beasts that the Locust Drones ride on in the fifth act of the original game. They stomp around with long legs, the Locust riders shooting at you from the saddle high up. Get too close and their pointy legs double up as spears which stab through you. They're nails.

It's when those guys turn up that you might want to use one of a new class of heavy weapons MS revealed during our hands-on session. They work a little like the gun turrets or laser cannons in Halo 3. Grab the Mulcher (a heavy chain gun) or the Mortar (which lobs explosive grenades into the air) and you'll fend off larger swarms with no worries, but suffer from a loss of speed and the ammo won't last long.

We couldn't talk about the new maps last week either, but now we can and what we saw was awesome. MS debuted two new maps: Day One, set in city streets with an arcade game interior you can enter; and Avalanche, set at the bottom of a snow-covered mountain.

Avalanche was particularly awesome because it contained one of those environmental hazards that Cliff Bleszinski had told us would play a much bigger a part in the sequel.

While playing you'll suddenly hear a siren, which is your cue to get the hell out of the main courtyard outside and into one of the buildings off to the sides. Moments later a rumbling avalanche comes crashing down the slope, covering the level in eight feet of snow.

It's brilliant - even if you make it to safety a blinding white fog descends over the entire stage, making it almost impossible to see opponents until you pretty much bump into each other. Some chaotic shoot-outs come out of that.

And of course when the storm settles, go outside and you'll see that the landscape has been changed by the snow that now covers the stage. It's been cleverly designed so that new areas and weapons, like a Mulcher that's on the roof of a central bandstand-style structure, are only reachable once the snow has crashed down and raised the floor level.

Fantastic stuff. And you won't even need friends (or Xbox Live) to enjoy all this multiplayer goodness because there'll be full bot support for all multiplayer modes too (except Horde), which will be great for getting in some practice before taking on the world.

As we said before, we're super pumped for Gears 2's multiplayer - all the faults of the original have been ironed out and all the new tweaks and additions are coming together to make one incredible game.
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1UP preview

What's new for E3? Online co-op was one of the hooks for the original Gears. Once again, gamers can hop online with a buddy and battle through the entire campaign. For those hoping that the number of co-op players would be expanded, Epic has unveiled a new five-player co-op mode called Horde. Described by design director Cliff Bleszinski as "Geometry Wars meets Smash TV," Horde is similar to the terrorist-hunt mode from Rainbow Six: Vegas. Players jump into a multiplayer level with up to four squadmates and battle against dozens of computer-controlled enemies. Locust attacks are broken up into waves; killing all of the Locust that spawn moves you to the next wave. The match ends when all squad members die. As of press time, there are 50 waves, but don't expect that to be the final number. Bleszinski says that the developers will basically double the highest wave number that they can reach internally. As you progress through the waves, the enemies level up, and more powerful and brutal enemies start appearing. On one level, there were about five Berserkers (the rampaging sightless enemies from the first game) running around and destroying everything in their path.

There were also several new classes of enemies on display as my squad made its way into double-digit waves in one match. The oversized Boomer enemy class now comes in several varieties: the Butcher runs around with very large and nasty looking meat cleaver, and he's aided by the Mauler, who carries a large shield and wields an explosive flail that kills on contact. Since the COG now has the Scorcher flamethrower, it's only fair that Locust get their very own fire-spewing fellow as well. Also for the first time, there are enemies who travel around using animals and machines. The squid-like Reavers that were shown in the Assault gameplay footage from earlier this year will eventually land and start attacking on foot... er, tentacle. Gamers looking for a stylish way to take one down can try to get close to the Reaver and grenade-tag its tentacles and then attack its soft underbelly. Finally, if you survive long enough, you'll run into the Bloodmount, a fast-moving, pale reptilian beast with a Locust riding on top. If you take the Bloodmount out first, the Locust gets thrown off, yet if you take out the Locust first, the Bloodmount then charges toward you in rage. Horde was a significant timesink, with one match lasting about 45 minutes when my squad made it all the way to wave 15. Epic also took this opportunity to officially announce bot support in all competitive multiplayer modes. The bots are being designed by Steve Polge, who's created some of the best multiplayer bots from Quake and Unreal Tournament.

During our time with the game, we were also able to check out two new levels and play around with a brand-new weapon type. The first new level is a dilapidated (it's Gears of War -- what were you expecting?) human city with an emergence hole in the middle of a four-way intersection. The E-hole isn't just there for decoration; at certain times a Seeder will rise up from the hole and thrash around. Fortunately, it's mainly there for aesthetic reasons and can't hurt you. It can also help shield you from cross-map weapons fire. A boarded-up movie theater and an arcade that players can actually walk through are at the corners of the intersection. Eagle-eyed combatants will spot a Thrash Ball table in the game room that plays Cole Train quotes.

The other new map is a first for the series, both for its location and because it features an environmental hazard. As its name suggests, Avalanche is set on the side of a snowcapped mountain retreat. Much like Day One, at random intervals a horn starts sounding, warning players of a wall of snow approaching from the side of the mountain. Players caught in the wave as it crashes through the middle of the map are instantly killed. The center of the level, a grassy courtyard with a gazebo, gets completely covered in snow. Visibility drops dramatically, as it takes about 30 seconds for the snowy fog to dissipate. The addition of snow mounds to the level allows players to quickly traverse the area -- and even helps players grab a previously unreachable power weapon.

The Mauler is one of Gears of War 2's new heavy weapons. It's a minigun that spits a stream of bullets that destroy pretty much everything in its path. You can set it up as a portable turret on the ground or in cover, but the weapon's temperature must be monitored, or it will overheat. When it does, you'll need to stop firing and eject steam into it to cool it down. This overheating mechanic will also be used with turrets in single-player as well. The other heavy weapon we were able to check out is the Mortar, a launcher that fires a number of explosive rounds into the sky. Unlike the grenades, however, there isn't an arc or range finder visible in the HUD at this time. Players must discover the range for themselves, turning this very powerful weapon into an instrument that only skilled players will be able to fully utilize.

What's our take? Running on an updated version of Unreal Engine 3, Gears of War 2 is still one of the best-looking games around. The addition of new lighting filters really adds depth to the world. It's also nice to see some variety in the color palette and environments. While the lack of four-player co-op through the story campaign is very disappointing, Horde is a blast and will most likely provide hours of fun with friends who coordinate effectively. Ultimately, all of the tweaks that have been made to the game (improved party system, balanced shotgun, and bullets slowing down opponents) are transforming the shotgun-dancing, bullet-lagging, weapon-sliding online atmosphere of the first game into the strategic and brutal experience it was supposed to have been all along.
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I wouldn't call myself a hardcore fan, but I enjoyed the first one. Especially in co-op mode.

Raging around with your mates whilst chainsawing the head of people is great.
 
Right, you bunch of freaks...


Old, but not posted... looks INSANE!!!!






Can't wait :drool::drool::drool:
 
£32 in Asda tomorrow - 1 day only I think

I'm going at midnight before it sells out - woop woop woop
 
9.5 on IGN

I'm very suprised by the lack of hype on here for this...it's going to be fecking awesome
 
kishankhagram said:
apparently 29 in sainsburys
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Supermarkets are the best places for console games, and dvds and albums.

I find it disgraceful somewhere like gamestation will be charging £50 for this tomorrow, and idiots will pay it...like they did for Fifa and Pro evo.
 
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