That joint man of the match stuff is a joke.
Gary Neville
- Thread starter jymufc20
- Start date
Of course he did... Foden must have been fecking godlike in the first 30 minutes then.
What you can’t pick 2! That’s cheating!
Foden's game was made to look better by the fact Milner should be retired.
The English media is obligated to jerk off over everything Foden-related. Salah could have scored a bicycle kick from 30 yards out in overtime to seal the win and he'd still probably have to share it with Foden
Also, wasn't Foden's goal mainly down to brilliance from Jesus? The finish was nice, but Jesus made that goal.
I haven’t seen it to be honest, but you cannot pick 2!The English media is obligated to jerk off over everything Foden-related. Salah could have scored a bicycle kick from 30 yards out in overtime to seal the win and he'd still probably have to share it with Foden
Also, wasn't Foden's goal mainly down to brilliance from Jesus? The finish was nice, but Jesus made that goal.
This guy will always be a fraud until he does something special with a non-artificially doped club. Where he goes next after the City gig will reveal a lot about his true greatness.
I reckon he goes back to Barca. Perhaps Spanish job, then calls it quits. Dont think he goes to psg. I do think this is his last contract at City, though.
Whilst all his success has came with ridiculous money, there's an argument to be made no coach, maybe in history, could get more out of a ridiculously talented squad than he does. The guy builds ridiculous teams that break records.
That being said, whilst I don't think it's a stupid argument, I still prefer SAF. What he did at United was unprecedented. I think a good way to see it is SAF being the best manager of all time, Pep arguably being the best coach of all time.
If he did go back to Barca and restore them to greatness with all the constraints they're currently under, he would definitely get some props from me.
I'm a fan of GNev, but come on, SAF is actually in a league of his own, and by a distance.
Pep, Klopp etc. all class but just not close to SAF in the PL.
Pep, Klopp etc. all class but just not close to SAF in the PL.
A bit OTT don't you think? I rate Klopp higher than Guardiola as a manager and coach. Pep would need to go to an Arsenal, Spurs, Dortmund, AC Milan, Napoli, Lyon type club and turn them into world beaters to prove what he's really about.
Agreed. It's not a serious award anyway. It typically is given to whoever scored the winner so maybe he misunderstood that part.
I disagree about him being a fraud but I don't think he can be called the GOAT until he actually builds a club into title winners like Klopp has.
I thought the same about Barca but they're in free fall right now. They don't have the patience to go a couple of seasons without a title and not sack the manager.
When the graphic for MOTM came up twice, I actually shouted "Come on" out loud. That made it official.
I don’t know about that. SAF is the best in sheer numbers of leagues won at united with 13 and 2 European Cups in 28 or so years. Pep has 9 leagues in around 13 years at 3 top leagues and 2 European Cups. So for the PL of course SAF is the one with the longevity and success. Pep has done more than anyone though overall in a condensed amount of time. If he goes ahead and wins the league again or two out of the next three seasons I believe most pundits and the general consensus will have him as the best Mgr ever.
My opinion is SAF basically built the PL as much as I hate to give him credit but Pep might well be known as the best after all is said and done unless a team stops City in their tracks. I think it’s time to root for any team rivals or not to beat Pep from gaining this stature.
@njred I take your point, but I doubt Pep will stick around long enough for that to be a prospect.
Again, I'm just talking PL here.
Obviously he is fantastic overall.
Again, I'm just talking PL here.
Obviously he is fantastic overall.
*Persons of the match*
You guys have to calm down that are critical for Neville for taking his United homer glasses off and giving his true opinions in studio.
He’s a fan at heart but as a pundit he has to give unbiased takes as he’s not just talking to United supporters, he’s talking to all football fans. And he tries his hardest to vouch for United, it’s been clearly noticeable over the years he gives them the benefit of the doubt even when they were pretty terrible. He’s always been positive but doesn’t mean he can’t compliment other teams as well. This European religion of sports is pretty absurd when a legend like Gary gets shit on for being a regular pundit. Like be quiet already. It’s not a cult. Sorry that some view it as that but I’m glad Gary isn’t a Neanderthal who has that sort of mentality when it comes to his punditry. Just because he calls it how he sees it (gives props where it’s due to others) doesn’t mean he’s down on all fours and somehow disrespecting United or not behaving like how a club legend should. Get out of here with that none sense, honestly…..
He’s a fan at heart but as a pundit he has to give unbiased takes as he’s not just talking to United supporters, he’s talking to all football fans. And he tries his hardest to vouch for United, it’s been clearly noticeable over the years he gives them the benefit of the doubt even when they were pretty terrible. He’s always been positive but doesn’t mean he can’t compliment other teams as well. This European religion of sports is pretty absurd when a legend like Gary gets shit on for being a regular pundit. Like be quiet already. It’s not a cult. Sorry that some view it as that but I’m glad Gary isn’t a Neanderthal who has that sort of mentality when it comes to his punditry. Just because he calls it how he sees it (gives props where it’s due to others) doesn’t mean he’s down on all fours and somehow disrespecting United or not behaving like how a club legend should. Get out of here with that none sense, honestly…..
I think this is a very narrow criteria of judging coaching/managerial ability.
Fergie was unique in that he was on top of the game for 3 decades, something unheard of in a profession where coaches tend to burn out after 15 years or so, but he wasnt a tactical pioneer, who Guardiola is, but then also himself the disciple and heir of a football school stretching all the way back to to 70s with Rinus Michels, actually voted multiple times as the greatest coach of football, who revolutionized the way the game can be played, to Johan Cruyff, whose legacy at Barca kept them running for 3 decades now. Then you have Arrigo Sacchi, who was a nobody, not even good enough to play proffesional football, yet created one of the most dominant team of all time from the ground up, retained the European Cup, something Guardiola yet failed to do, and whose tactical legacy influenced coaches of the current generation who are hailed for their tactical brilliance like Tuchel, who himself admitted that he studied Sacchi's team and applied those principles in his own team. Then the like of Luis Aragones or Del Bosque, who had great success at both Madrid and Spain NT, with much the same team Guardiola had for his most succesful period, sans Messi. If we are talking condensed amount of time, Zidane won 2 Ligas and 3 CLs over 5 seasons, surely on par with any period of 5 years in Guardiola's career? Yet no one would accord the same praise to him, even though if there is any difference in quality between Madrid 16-19 and Barca 09-12, it would be negligible. Jose Mourinho tarnished his standing in the game a fair bit in the last 10 years with his career post Madrid, but in, say, 30 years, who's to say people wont put his achievement on par with Guardiola?
I think unless Guardiola goes on to do something truly extraordinary like winning a couple more European Cups, or a WC with Spain, he will just be one in that pantheon of all time greats, and not the stand out GOAT Neville is touting him as, which is pretty much just recency bias.
It’s the 9 leagues in 13 yrs in 3 different countries that is going have him as the best when all is said and done. Add a CL in England to it and a few more leagues then he will go down as the best in most people’s eyes. Again he’s had the luxury of unlimited money and players of the best caliber so IMO that does go a little bit against him. Yes, there’s a lot of coaches who won in condensed time like Zidane or even Paisley who might have the best short period of coaching ever with 6 leagues and 3 European Cups in 9 yrs. But Pep did it in 3 major powerhouse leagues.
Funny how this isn't the same for the player.
The new landscape of football, in addition to his own brilliance, enabled that sort of achievement. Again, looking at purely trophy count is a skewed way of judging a manager's pedigree. There were a 10 years interval between PSV, United and Barcelona's treble. Since then, that has happened 4 times, thrice in the same decade. Italy and Germany saw one club monopolizing domestic title to the degree unseen since the 70s. No coach have failed to win the BL at Bayern after Guardiola, and 2 have won a treble at his former club since his departure while he is still chasing that elusive 3rd CL.
I'm not one of those who think he must win the PL with Stoke or he is a fraud, but his achievement to date while extremely impressive, still hasnt yet surpassed those of many great coaches that came before him.
I wonder if winning trophies at some clubs will become devalued in the future as some clubs basically turn their leagues into monopolies. For example, surely winning a bundesliga with Dortmund is more impressive than winning two with Bayern?
Football doesn't have judges, just fans that make their own mind up by linking certain things together.
For me, that kind of thing you say does count. Where someone won something, for who, who did they play for, who did they play with, what tactics, what leagues, what opposition, what opposition tactics faced and so many more.
Players and managers all the same.
Different people do it differently though.
Fergie is the greatest of all time because he was able to make the leap between the old era of football into the current new era(And to do this mostly with one club is the cherry on the cake). His achievements go far beyond cup wins and league titles. Which is unfair on everyone who followed him but tough shit thats how history works!
If league titles and European cups are the barometer, Pep still has a bit to do to catch Ferguson.
SAF - 16 leagues, 2 CL
Pep - 9 leagues, 2 CL
SAF - 16 leagues, 2 CL
Pep - 9 leagues, 2 CL
SAF 1986-2013 28 yrs England top flight
PEP 2008-2021 13 yrs Spain- Ger- England Obviously Pep’s rate is more prolific.
Pep's been managing for half the time SAF did.
Keep up this rate and he'll surpass Sir Alex.
Whether he will keep this rate and level of performance is another matter entirely though.
That's the virtue of SAF. To keep winning for 28 years and retiring winning.
Mou faded around his 13th year (world class manager around 2003-2015)
Pep is now in his 13th year so we'll see if he keeps his level or starts dropping as Mou did.
It’s hardly a fair comparison, if Pep had taken over a mid table team then you might have a point. Don’t forget Sir Alex had to build so much more.
Pep isn’t half way through his career, he won’t last as long as SAF.
Also Pep has the advantage of not having rebuilding years lower his hit rate. If Sir Alex went from top side to top side then his trophy haul would be scary.
to put Sir Alex into context, If Pep doesn’t win the title this year he will have 3 titles in 6 years.Sir Alex shits over that
I think we mgiht present that challenge you're talking about!
His podcast was interesting.
“Ole was a great bridge”
In other words, time to go Ole.
“Ole was a great bridge”
In other words, time to go Ole.
The English media is obligated to jerk off over everything Foden-related. Salah could have scored a bicycle kick from 30 yards out in overtime to seal the win and he'd still probably have to share it with Foden
Also, wasn't Foden's goal mainly down to brilliance from Jesus? The finish was nice, but Jesus made that goal.
Agreed, the finish by Foden was excellent but the run by Jesus was fantastic and made the goal.
Number of years versus number of titles is surely a flawed and biased metric - considering the starting point of both managers?
Neville also criticized Ronaldo for storming off the pitch muttering under his breath. It is putting undue pressure on Ole, apparently.
A snippet:
Imagine a Manchester United manager being under pressure. Poor Ole.
Fergie is the best ever. Even factoring in to everything he did at United, what he did with Aberdeen was nothing short of remarkable. Beating Real Madrid with Aberdeen and the way he smashed the Old Firm monopoly is one of his greatest achievements.
A joint man of the match. What a clown.
Salah was MOTM. Foden was class, but Salah was better. But he had to give it to Foden as well, local lad and all that.