Sir Gareth of Southgate
Gareth Southgate
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
Mate, you think he wants to come United? He's gonna be managing City (with Pep becoming the guy who puts out his cones).Still don’t want him at United!
Sorry, but no. ETH has proven himself on club level on dozens of occasions. Southgate has only shown incompetence, awful tactical setups, and one of the worst structural organization with one of the most talented squads, all of this on international level that's lagging 20 years behind club football. Southgate would be one of the worst managers in the PL if he took over a club there, possibly the worst.
Can't believe our luck really.
Should've been out to Slovakia... And then again with Switzerland, and now given an absolute non-penalty.
3 late goals to draw level/win...
What's next against Spain?
Should've been out to Slovakia... And then again with Switzerland, and now given an absolute non-penalty.
3 late goals to draw level/win...
What's next against Spain?
Genius.
Next United manager
Next United manager
Feck me. Some wild takes in here
Off to bed I go.
Off to bed I go.
Questionable - ETH just delivered the most pathetic league campaign I’ve ever seen from a United manager with abysmal tactics.
But still won a cup - back to back with the first one he won in his first season.
2 finals and a semi final and yet some in here know better. Knockout football isn’t about your systems and your attacking football, it’s about moments and staying in the game. He’s done a great job, it’s been 60 years since we saw anything remotely like this. If you’re still not happy ask yourself why you’re such a miserable git
Not at all questionable in club management.
Southgate was a dramatic failure at that level, albeit he now has greater experience to try his hand again.
ETH has won multiple trophies.
There is real value to a manager that can put together a spirit over 6 years and three tournaments like he has for England.
He isn’t a great manager in terms of tactics and play style, which means he wouldn’t transfer into a top coach at club level, but he has serious skills as a man manager and leader.
He isn’t a great manager in terms of tactics and play style, which means he wouldn’t transfer into a top coach at club level, but he has serious skills as a man manager and leader.
First good performance England have had all tournament. The route they've taken has been extremely kind to them and that's not a criticism of the players. Every other major nation hasn't had time to adapt like Southgate has, and from a neutral it seems this 3-5-2 formation is working wonders late on, allowing players like Foden to drift into positions he's more comfortable in. Mind you I still don't think they get the job done over Spain.
Don't forget the monumental injury crisis, and the fact he won another trophy.
If you want to replace him with Southgate (or even Deschamps), go right ahead.
Southgate has not actually won anything with England. This is despite favourable routes and an excellent pool of talent to choose from.
United do not need 'serious skills as a man manager and leader', they need a coach who can deliver consistent silverware.
Southgate is not that person.
Bizarre how lucky he is with both draws in tournaments and matches. If he wins the Euros I'm going to write to him for some lottery numbers.
If they get away with all the cheating that would be some form of justice.
What's more successful winning the Eredivisie or winning the Euros though. Club level may be ahead of International, but you have to prove it at a big league, which ETH hasn't yet.
The contrast between this post, and your take on ETH (who has actually won trophies) last season is stark. I don’t disagree on this particular point, but it’s a shame more people don’t apply this kind of common sense logic to club football too.
So he’d be great in Australia then?!
But in reality would have been knocked out by a bloody championship side in the semi, everybody conveniently forgetting Coventry's clear winning goal on the last second of extra time.
Southgate with two Euro finals and WC semi already made England the second best and most consistent tournament team in Europe, only France were bigger achievers in his reign.
ETH won a third-grade EFL cup and a second-grade FA cup while failing big time on other fronts. There's several teams and managers that achieved more in England during his reign, and even more in Europe.
There's no equivalence in winning FA Cup and back-to-back Euro finals.
You seem to be convieniently forgetting that Torp was offside.
Yeah, with red tinted glasses it was. The offside line went over Bissakas foot.
Southgate has taken so much criticism and shit talking. Some, or even much, deserved. But now is not the time for that. Back to back Euro finals is a wonderful achievement and the man deserves his moment here. If he can get England over the line and actually lift the trophy, he will go from a figure of almost permanent ridicule, to one of ever lasting legend. The margins in football are fine.
Today at least, I am singing his praises.
Today at least, I am singing his praises.
Ten Hag has won two trophies in simultaneous seasons and was a inch away from bringing Ajax to a Champions League final. League form is very much a squad issue, no team can be stable when their 3 main centre backs are injured all season or when their goalkeeper has just signed and is yet to adapt.
Southgate has an amazing squad whom I think are performing in spite of him and not because of. It's very much a team of moments, the first half was the first half of good football played all tournament, after that the Dutch adapted to the game with inferior players and the the individuals England brought on changed the game. Palmer set up Watkins, Shaw made the world of difference on the left side.
Fair play to Gareth, England looked bereft of anything in the first few matches but after a few tweaks in personnel & shape he's dragged us to another final.
There comes a point where you just can't point at luck being the deciding factor, whatever Gareth's been doing behind the scenes since 2018 has worked wonders.
There comes a point where you just can't point at luck being the deciding factor, whatever Gareth's been doing behind the scenes since 2018 has worked wonders.
England were better then Switzerland and even better todau then the Netherlands (should have been 3-1 up by half time). GS rides his luck as he has the best team imo but lets not exagerate
Shit manager and an incredibly lucky one. No one can convince me otherwise. Deschamps is far more successful than him beating some actual tough opponents over the years and he’s also shite. International football is completely different. You can’t judge a manager based on that. Make Southgate and deschamps club managers right now and I can guarantee they both get found out within months.
Look, I think Southgate is shit, so I'm not defending him as a good coach or anything. But if he wins the Euro after back to back finals he will be a more successful manager than ETH who was an inch away from a CL final but got knocked out by bloody Tottenham don't forget.
"League form is very much a squad issue, no team can be stable when their 3 main centre backs are injured all season "
Have a look at Liverpool the year they had their 3 main centre backs injured all season, third in the league. Not 8th.
ETH had a season worth sacking, but all was forgotten after one game.
Works both ways. Some club managers wouldn't work out in international football, where you work with your players three or four times a year instead of training with them every day.
He's done a great job. Why some people think England are guaranteed to do as well under any manager is beyond me. It's knockout football ffs, the margins are so small.
As it will be if Southgate and England win on Sunday.
So...
2018 WC - reached semi-final
Euro 2020 - lost on penalties in the final
WC 2022 - reached last 8 and lost to France who would go all the way to the final and lose to Argentina on pens
Euro 2024 - reached the final and possibly going to be the winners
All that after some terrible performances in 2008 (didn't even qualify that time) until 2016 and losing to Iceland. This England team is really filled with talent and except against Netherlands tonight they've been average in terms of performances but just imagine if they win it - everything will be forgotten. I actually don't think another Euro final defeat will happen like 3 years ago, as good as Spain are. Perhaps stars aligned for England after so many decades.
2018 WC - reached semi-final
Euro 2020 - lost on penalties in the final
WC 2022 - reached last 8 and lost to France who would go all the way to the final and lose to Argentina on pens
Euro 2024 - reached the final and possibly going to be the winners
All that after some terrible performances in 2008 (didn't even qualify that time) until 2016 and losing to Iceland. This England team is really filled with talent and except against Netherlands tonight they've been average in terms of performances but just imagine if they win it - everything will be forgotten. I actually don't think another Euro final defeat will happen like 3 years ago, as good as Spain are. Perhaps stars aligned for England after so many decades.
Cant wait to see Tiki Taka-Nap being implemented in City
Two Euro finals in a row, hats off to him.
Roberto di Matteo won the Champions League and FA Cup over consecutive weekends. In his first season as Chelsea manager.
Context is imperative. That's the point being made.
We lost half our games last season, England haven’t lost a game yet.
Knockout football is totally different to league football. League football is about implementing a system (when you have a system manager) and getting the team to play as a cohesive unit. Knockout football is about getting through the game while being hard to beat and relying on moments to get you through the fixture. The FA cup was a great example of that actually. You don’t play these games of football, you win them, it’s that simple.
I’ve got no problems with winning games, I know some people on here will complain that the football isn’t good enough but I’ll take the trophies all day long.
As for Ten Hag, I’ve already said he gets a relative clean slate going into next season. Not because he won a trophy, but because they’ll be new players and new staff around the place so maybe now he’ll learn something from his past mistakes, and the reality is that he won’t see out the season if it goes anywhere near as badly as last season so there’s nothing to lose really.
You deserve slaps to wake your brain if you are invested in conflating international ball with club ball. They are almost two different sports.
Absolutely.
In club football, fortune favours the richer entities and their vast resources. Major championships are seeded to service their needs and promulgate their progress. Whereas international football...um...
The reality is Sir Gareth of the Favourable Route. Congratulations to the man, but him being anywhere near the United job is a dangerous Ole-style folly.
We need to watch what we say lest Ineos do something incredibly stupid.
Spain have beaten a very strong Germany team and France on the way to the final. Holland aren't that good of a team, nowhere near as strong as either France or Germany.
We're about to go up against the best international side in world football at the moment. As much as it would be good to see England win it. I think we will simply get blown away by them.