Gareth Southgate

Here are England knockout results since 96. You could argue that the some of the earlier managers could've preform as good as Southgate if they had gotten the same easy draws as he has, but I'm not sure that they would've preformed better than him.

---Venables---
1996: Spain - W
Germany - L
---Hoddle---
1998: Argentina - L
---Keegan---
2000: 3rd in group after Portugal and Romania
---Sven---
2002: Denmark - W
Brazil - L
2004: Portugal - L
2006: Ecuador - W
Portugal - L
---McClaren---
2008: NA
---Capello---
2010: Germany - L
---Hodgson---
2012: Italy - L
2014: Last in group after Costa Rica, Uruguay and Italy
2016: Iceland - L
---Southgate---
2018: Colombia - W
Sweden - W
Croatia - L
Belgium - L
2020: Germany - W
Ukraine - W
Denmark - W
Italy - L
2022: Senegal - W
France - L
2024*: Slovenia - W
Switzerland - W
 
AshRK said:
Not really. Swiss had better chances and should have won. They were more in control especially in latter part of the game. The xgs also show the same.

England (0.68) 1-1 (1.51) Switzerland
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xG doesn't win you games... Southgate does!
 
Give the man some credit his subs this tournament have been spot on
 
In a group where England is expected to win all games, it's 1W and 2D. Very conservative manager indeed.
Definitely not a league manager. He does this in PL and they'd be sitting near the bottom of table.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
And he's unquestionably the best England manager in over 50 years
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It’s one of those weird ones. I often don’t agree with his tactical set-ups, his selections, and find his style of play quite insipid. But on the flip side, most national teams with talented squads are often quite insipid in major tournaments because of how little time coaches get with all the players together. They tend to all resort to pragmatic football.

The fact is that people can say a coach has this player or that player or how good the squad is, and England have been in that position loads of times. A great squad but not great results. Regardless of how good the players supposedly are, you still have to get it done. And of all the managers we’ve had since 1970, Southgate is the one who had gotten it done most consistently.

WC 2018 - Semis
Euro 2020 - Final lost on pens
WC 2022 - QF
Euro 2024 - Semi and still in.

He’s on the verge of back to back Euro finals. That’s a heck of an achievement when viewed in the context of the actual results of our history.

I don’t particularly like the way he plays and I have a bug bear with some of his selections but…..the results speak for themselves. He might not be the “best” England coach of my lifetime but he’s certainly the most successful. And that kind of consistent, last four or finalist performance at major tournaments can’t be boiled down to pure luck as some want it to be. Not when his worst performance across four major tournaments is a QF loss to France, many people’s favourites.

If anything, he’s had his share of bad luck too. Losing a final on penalties, his captain missing a penalty in normal time in the WC QF. He’s gone into this tournament with one of the weakest back fours an England team has put out in 20 years, with no proper left back, arguably his first choice right back injured, his first choice CB injured. Anyone getting to the semi with a back four of Walker, Stones, Guehi/Konsa, and Trippier, is doing okay.

I’m not a Southgate fan, not by a long stretch, but some of the vitriol spouted in his direction, is just fecking stupid. In the match thread today more people were shit talking and moaning than they were celebrating, or being excited, about being in another semi final. It’s fecking weird.
 
They’re going to win it. Thankfully it’s just the Euros and not the WC.
 
GMoore23 said:
2nd best England manager in history.

You won't know what you had until he's gone :lol:.
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Yeah. Watch them get drawn in a group with Uruguay, France and an inexplicably extraordinary Nigeria at the next WC and they flame out at the group stage with 0 wins
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Intuitively, it makes sense. You don't get a lot of time to train national teams to play together, and it's easier / it takes less time to effectively coach defensive phases of play than attacking ones.
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Yep. Set pieces too. Those are the areas managers have the ability to influence the most. Southgate was pretty great at both. Until this tournament. They've been trash in this tournament. It hasn't mattered :lol:
Idxomer said:
Don't know if Switzerland were better but they definitely had the better chances.
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Ergo were the better team?
simonhch said:
I’m not a Southgate fan, not by a long stretch, but some of the vitriol spouted in his direction, is just fecking stupid. In the match thread today more people were shit talking and moaning than they were celebrating, or being excited, about being in another semi final. It’s fecking weird.
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The english don't want to win, they want something to complain about :lol:
 
Southgate has done a decent job with England. His philosophy is to be extra cautious and create a team which is very hard to beat; then rely on individual moments of magic from the team to win. This philosophy is working because England have the best national team in the world alongside France.
Whether England have world class players in every position or not is irrelevant to him. If England had 11 James Milners or 11 Messis he would play the same way. This philosophy is not bad at international tournaments.
We already know how the semi final is going to go. Netherlands will have more of the ball and will likely be the better team. The score will be in binary and England will win due to the sheer talent advantage they have.
Saying all that he will get relegated with most teams (position 8-20) in the PL.
 
I do honestly think people are going to get a shock if they suddenly expect the next manager to get England playing great football.

Southgate is by no means perfect but shithousing our way to a final is probably the best chance we have.
 
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Dr. StrangeHate said:
Southgate has done a decent job with England. His philosophy is to be extra cautious and create a team which is very hard to beat; then rely on individual moments of magic from the team to win. This philosophy is working because England have the best national team in the world alongside France.
Whether England have world class players in every position or not is irrelevant to him. If England had 11 James Milners or 11 Messis he would play the same way. This philosophy is not bad at international tournaments.
We already know how the semi final is going to go. Netherlands will have more of the ball and will likely be the better team. The score will be in binary and England will win due to the sheer talent advantage they have.
Saying all that he will get relegated with most teams (position 8-20) in the PL.
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This is very much what he does. He kind of mirrors whatever team he plays, extra cautious and then relies on quality. Particularly when you look at the game last night, the overall bench quality of subs was so lopsided even ignoring the first team should be good enough to win in extra time. We weren’t as bad as previous games but we create so little.

The issue with playing how we do though is once you play France, who do the same cautious approach as us, we probably lose.
 
Look, this is maybe how you get deep into international tournements. He’s proved he can do that and found a formula to do it. Much respect.

But to win them you actually have to try and create a few chances.

Everyone can see the issues.

Case in point vs Switzerland.

Happy with the first half, controlling the game , expecting to build on the dominance and push on.

At about the 60th minute mark it was obvious to everyone and their dog Switzerland had figured us out and were putting three men on saka to neutralise our only attacking outlet.

It was at that point he should have made the three subs he did to get back on top and give us some options on the left for them to think about. But no, he is reactive and only makes the changes once they had pressed home their tactical advantage.

We have to start creating chances if we want to bring home the trophy or we will lose by trying not to lose.
 
The way he has the team playing feels like an absolute gamble, playing conservatively and relying on individual moments.
 
AndyMUFC said:
I do honestly think people are going to get a shock if they suddenly expect the next manager to get England playing great football.

Southgate is by no means perfect but shithousing our way to a final is probably the best chance we have.
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Why do you think this? Player for player we have one of the best 11s in the world. Why is shithousing the best chance we have?
 
rpitchfo said:
Look, this is maybe how you get deep into international tournements. He’s proved he can do that and found a formula to do it. Much respect.
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Nah, this is a new narrative people are spinning but it's not true.

France are laying down the blueprint for this tactic. They play ultra defensive and are looking for moments of magic. With that said, they never really look in danger of being beat and are managing to beat decent teams this way, without even scoring goals :lol:

England were an overhead kick in the 95th minute away from being eliminated and then also saved by the woodwork in the dying minutes against Swiss. Sir Gareth was very lucky this tournament, where he hasn't faced a single top team.

With that said, he doesn't pick the draw and England are in the semi so fair play. No one will give a shit about the draw of England win.

I just don't want a France v England final. Finals are usually cagey and if these two anti-football merchants make it there, it will genuinely be a horrible advertisement for the beautiful game.
 
Zen86 said:
That’s always been the case with England teams to be fair.
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Definetely but GS, and as much as I don't rate him or the type of football he gets his teams playing, still had a good eye for team balance.
That's gone completely out of the window now.
I don't know wtf he's doing.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Definetely but GS, and as much as I don't rate him or the type of football he gets his teams playing, still had a good eye for team balance.
That's gone completely out of the window now.
I don't know wtf he's doing.
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Getting England ready for the final, that's what!
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Getting England ready for the final, that's what!
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Getting ready to lift the trophy and then cup his ears to the camera and just keep shouting ‘where are you? I can’t hear you! Let’s be having you’ when he does his post match after winning the final.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Getting ready to lift the trophy and then cup his ears to the camera and just keep shouting ‘where are you? I can’t hear you! Let’s be having you’ when he does his post match after winning the final.
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He'll lower the trophy and say "put your tears in here, i wanna taste them"
 
AndyMUFC said:
I do honestly think people are going to get a shock if they suddenly expect the next manager to get England playing great football.

Southgate is by no means perfect but shithousing our way to a final is probably the best chance we have.
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England were better in the last World cup though. US performance was poor but dispatched Iran and Wales very easily and in second gear pretty much. Then Senegal in last 16 looked as tricky as Swiss but were 3-0 up by an hour I think. France loss was a very tight margin defeat rather than being outplayed. Just Southgate finally getting a favourite in the QF for once and just not having enough on the day to win it.

I think that's what the more measured fans and pundits are asking, why have things regressed in terms of style so quickly again in 18 months and it's more just hit and hope and relying on individual moments?

I assume people saying he's getting his subs spot on are typing it with tongue fairly in cheek. Second half yesterday Swiss were getting on top from hour mark and were building up to the goal for 15 minutes and yet again Southgate did nothing until the goal went on so no different to me to Croatia and Italy apart from Swiss just didn't have enough themselves to get over the line.
 
Pickle85 said:
Why do you think this? Player for player we have one of the best 11s in the world. Why is shithousing the best chance we have?
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The quality of the defenders and midfielders on the ball mainly. That bit isn't a Southgate problem.

Personally think it's a really similar situation to United, where we're suited to being a moments team because our attacking players are better than most teams, or we could try and become a high pressing team but 1. you'd likely have to drop Kane and 2. it's difficult to do that against a low block which is mainly what we've played against so far.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Definetely but GS, and as much as I don't rate him or the type of football he gets his teams playing, still had a good eye for team balance.
That's gone completely out of the window now.
I don't know wtf he's doing.
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With the way he sets his teams up I am baffled why he didn't take Grealish or Rashford. He probably only plays Foden because he won the player of the year this year when Palmer is much more suited to England style of play.
 
AshRK said:
Not really. Swiss had better chances and should have won. They were more in control especially in latter part of the game. The xgs also show the same.

England (0.68) 1-1 (1.51) Switzerland
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Yawn, xG is so boring. They scored a tap-in, Saka scored from outside the box - so of course that heavily skews things for a start.

What about when Saka skins their wing-back and we should have a clear chance if Kane can be bothered to make a simple near-post run rather than stand there like a statue? There's no xG value for that, but it''s a clear example of us being dangerous going forward.

Was there any xG value for the brilliant block Xhaka made on Mainoo's shot?

We were much more in control of this game than they were other than for a 20 minute spell in the 2nd half to be honest. Not that we great, but it was better and we were just about the better team. I know what I saw over the course of 120 minutes and can say that confidently with zero bias considering how critical I and most have been of us so far.

Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to judge the game off what you've ACTUALLY witnessed, not a couple of data analytics measurements.
 
It's so similar to watching United. Never control matches despite having better players (usually) than the opposition and relying on individual brilliance
 
DannyCAFC said:
Yawn, xG is so boring. They scored a tap-in, Saka scored from outside the box - so of course that heavily skews things for a start.

What about when Saka skins their wing-back and we should have a clear chance if Kane can be bothered to make a simple near-post run rather than stand there like a statue? There's no xG value for that, but it''s a clear example of us being dangerous going forward.

Was there any xG value for the brilliant block Xhaka made on Mainoo's shot?

We were much more in control of this game than they were other than for a 20 minute spell in the 2nd half to be honest. Not that we great, but it was better and we were just about the better team. I know what I saw over the course of 120 minutes and can say that confidently with zero bias considering how critical I and most have been of us so far.

Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to judge the game off what you've ACTUALLY witnessed, not a couple of data analytics measurements.
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But now you are acting like Austria only had one chance with that tap in. What about those moments (3 times?) that CB playing RB Schar decided to shoot from difficult positions? Shaqiri hitting the bar from a corner. I agree that England was better than their earlier matches though. The first half they started quite well and i convinced that Saka would get an assist.

I think the teams were about equal. Austria created a bit more through good team play and England created through Saka his individual quality. In the end England won because Akanji took the worst penalties this tournament and the Austria goalkeeper could as well have stayed home during the penalty serie.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Definetely but GS, and as much as I don't rate him or the type of football he gets his teams playing, still had a good eye for team balance.
That's gone completely out of the window now.
I don't know wtf he's doing.
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He did a good job when it was a clean slate and he had license to bring in the new generation of untested players. But he’s fallen into the same trap of shoehorning names in at the expense of creating a functional XI that his predecessors fell into. I see a lot of parallels between this team and the Golden Generation at the moment.
 
It’s very simple with him. Play very conservative football by playing not to lose while knowing you have the talent on the pitch and on the bench to change the game in one moment. The added benefit of knowing you have probably the best set of penalty takers in the tournament also gives him the ultimate joker.

To everyone else a 0-0 game at 80mins is a borefest and a reason to get frustrated but he’ll be extremely happy with that. If he’s down like we were yesterday, he can let go of the handbrake for a few minutes knowing the talent is there.

It’s chicken shit football, especially against sides you’re better than. I would get it if he did this against teams on the other side of the draw but it just speaks to his mentality.

His career so far has to labour deep into the knockout phase of competitions beating teams that we should and failing the moment we face a team of similar quality (except for Germany). This Dutch team is a weird one in deciding which side of that they fall on.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
It's so similar to watching United. Never control matches despite having better players (usually) than the opposition and relying on individual brilliance
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United play much better than England and have much more attacking intent. England would kill for a manager like ETH.
 
Stadjer said:
But now you are acting like Austria only had one chance with that tap in. What about those moments (3 times?) that CB playing RB Schar decided to shoot from difficult positions? Shaqiri hitting the bar from a corner. I agree that England was better than their earlier matches though. The first half they started quite well and i convinced that Saka would get an assist.

I think the teams were about equal. Austria created a bit more through good team play and England created through Saka his individual quality. In the end England won because Akanji took the worst penalties this tournament and the Austria goalkeeper could as well have stayed home during the penalty serie.
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I'm not sure I trust your observation of the game if you can't even remember who the other team was. ;)
 
Zen86 said:
He did a good job when it was a clean slate and he had license to bring in the new generation of untested players. But he’s fallen into the same trap of shoehorning names in at the expense of creating a functional XI that his predecessors fell into. I see a lot of parallels between this team and the Golden Generation at the moment.
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Oh most definitely.
Maybe there could be interference from above?
 
DannyCAFC said:
I'm not sure I trust your observation of the game if you can't even remember who the other team was. ;)
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Whoops :lol:

Neighbours and both mountain countries. Both speak German. Same colours in their flags. What is the difference anyway? I have been mixing them up the whole tournament...
 
FootballHQ said:
England were better in the last World cup though. US performance was poor but dispatched Iran and Wales very easily and in second gear pretty much. Then Senegal in last 16 looked as tricky as Swiss but were 3-0 up by an hour I think. France loss was a very tight margin defeat rather than being outplayed. Just Southgate finally getting a favourite in the QF for once and just not having enough on the day to win it.

I think that's what the more measured fans and pundits are asking, why have things regressed in terms of style so quickly again in 18 months and it's more just hit and hope and relying on individual moments?
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We were better overall but I still remember most of those games being similarly frustrating until the first goal. I also think we're playing against better and more well organised sides in the Euros.

I will put the balance of the side not being right on Southgate. I'm not saying he's perfect at all. I just don't think we're suddenly going to play like a a Spain or Germany without him either.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Oh most definitely.
Maybe there could be interference from above?
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I think it’s just media pressure and feeling compelled to play the “star” names. This country bigs up its players too much to the point where they’re undroppable. If Southgate dropped Kane or Bellingham and lost, he would be crucified. Same as the Golden Generation, every man and his dog knew Gerrard and Lampard weren’t working but the fallout from getting rid of one or both would have been ridiculous.
 
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