It says it all about what kind of manager he is that he went 5 at the back and completely parked the bus when England went 2-1 up. I'll give up my season ticket if this guy ever gets the United gig, he'd do so much harm to the club.
Gareth Southgate
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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I reckon he had his "I'll make you think I'm taking the blame whilst I throw the players under the bus" speech in one pocket, and his resignation letter in the other.
Maybe next game Gareth.
Maybe next game Gareth.
Potter is levels above Southgate - many levels.
Unpopular opinion, but maybe, just maybe, someone who has worked with this team for so long and is clearly respected by his own players and was one penalty kick from Rashford/Saka/Sancho away from winning England their first silverware in decades knows what he's doing and why he's doing it. You may not like how it looks, but you have to admit he's getting the job done.
bite
bite
Bit late for the troll, but more effort in the fight than Kane or Southgate ever shows.
1 Foden baby out of 3 for the effort.
But it's not through getting a couple goals and parking the bus. It's by getting goals near the end and scrapping through
Quite comfortably one of the worse ‘head coaches’ I’ve experienced watching football. This England team is winning ‘in spite’ of him.
The persisting with things that don’t work, the horrific use of substitutions, the defensive football, everything is just so bad.
We went 2-1 up and immediately his first thought wasn’t to kill the game (against what was an absolutely shite team btw) it was to drop into a 532 system and completely give the impetus back to Slovakia.
Persisting with that lacklustre left hand side just makes absolutely no sense.
And why did he bring on Konsa (the player who plays right back) and put him left back but then keep Saka right back. Like this is a man being paid 5 million pounds a year to make these decisions.
And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a manager seek to deliberately sabotage his own team just so he doesn’t have to make a decision that would be popular with what pundits/media and fans want. When everyone wanted Grealish at the last Euros he insisted on not playing him, and kept with Mount who did absolutely nothing that tournament. He’s doing the same at these.
And for all the talk about him being a humble and good guy. He’s actually quite arrogant. And likes to gaslight the fans and media.
The persisting with things that don’t work, the horrific use of substitutions, the defensive football, everything is just so bad.
We went 2-1 up and immediately his first thought wasn’t to kill the game (against what was an absolutely shite team btw) it was to drop into a 532 system and completely give the impetus back to Slovakia.
Persisting with that lacklustre left hand side just makes absolutely no sense.
And why did he bring on Konsa (the player who plays right back) and put him left back but then keep Saka right back. Like this is a man being paid 5 million pounds a year to make these decisions.
And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a manager seek to deliberately sabotage his own team just so he doesn’t have to make a decision that would be popular with what pundits/media and fans want. When everyone wanted Grealish at the last Euros he insisted on not playing him, and kept with Mount who did absolutely nothing that tournament. He’s doing the same at these.
And for all the talk about him being a humble and good guy. He’s actually quite arrogant. And likes to gaslight the fans and media.
There’s being stubborn and there’s being an idiot. Southgate is 99% idiot.
Defend, Defend, Defend against teams we should be destroying with these players.
Kane is shot. He would have got the same goal and helped the team better if he’d stood in that goal scoring position for 90 minutes. Stayed on more than an hour too long.
Pitiful as it can get as a ‘team’ performance
Defend, Defend, Defend against teams we should be destroying with these players.
Kane is shot. He would have got the same goal and helped the team better if he’d stood in that goal scoring position for 90 minutes. Stayed on more than an hour too long.
Pitiful as it can get as a ‘team’ performance
He reeks. Tactically atrocious.
100%
Just the thought that he was even remotely considered to be good enough for Untied is scary.
English managers are hopeless. The last one to win one of the big 5 leagues was Wilkinson in 1991, back before the premier league era.
I'll bite.
It's been 58 years since the last trophy. And that was the one and only trophy. In the last century. While playing at home, and after the referees did unspeakable things. Anyway, I am not even sure if anyone from that team is still alive.
It is not like England has a winning tradition and was regularly going to finals while playing fantastic football.
It is really shocking for me, as a non-English person, the disrespect shown to Southgate. It's like the English fans believe that their team is Brazil or Germany or something, while they won only one trophy (and they did not deserve it, either!... basically they have won nothing!).
His legs have been going since the last Euros. Can barely walk after an hour in a competitive match.
Still a brilliant finisher but really only useful to a team who can dominate possession without him having to contribute too much.
The same can be said for Sven, but the difference is ofcourse that he never got to stroll all the way to the later rounds before losing to strong teams. In 2002 it was Brazil in the 2nd round and goodbye, in 2004 it was instantly Portugal and out, 2006 Portugal in the 2nd round and out again. Southgate would've lost to all those teams too, but he would've ended up like Turkey in 2002 and faced Brazil in the semis, and beaten South Korea to the bronze.
Yep. I would have alarm bells ringing. I don't think these guys no any more about football than the galzers!! How on earth could that even be considered.
He's the living embodiment of its better to be lucky than good.
The England team have my respect because the players are getting the job done in spite of him.
The England team have my respect because the players are getting the job done in spite of him.
Exactly.
Sven only lost to very good teams, he was just unlucky with the draw and penalties. Southgate is lucky to have an even more talented English team in a time when the quality of other national teams declined considerably, and he gets easy draws on top of it.
Also Sven accumulated many impressive victories of the like that Southgate never had. In 2002 he beat and eliminated a very strong Bielsa-led Argentina (who were among the favorites to win the WC) in the group stage. He then breezed past Denmark in the round of 16 with a 3-0 demolition job, finishing the game in first half. In 2004 his England team made it look easy against Croatia (4-2 win) and Switzerland (3-0) in the group stage, and he was on the verge of beating France before Zidane scored 2 goals in stoppage time.
He lost to an all-time great Brazil team in a tight match and to a legendary Portugal generation twice on penalties. All of these losses are "better" than the losses Southgate had as well.
People saying that Southgate is the best England manager in recent time is ridiculous. Sven was clearly better once you compare their best victories. I don't see how Southgate gets out of the group of death that has Argentina, Sweden and Nigeria in it (the 2002 version of those teams).
The reason why Southgate gets (rightfully) criticized so much is because England is one of the rare national teams that has just as much or even more quality than in the 00s, while pretty much every other national team in Europe declined significantly since then, including the likes of France and Spain.
With the quality advantage that England has over almost any team, their fans should rightfully expect a Spain 2008-12 level of dominance or at least something similar to 2008-2014 Germany. Instead you get horrible defensive football and barely beating teams like Slovakia.
To claim that England has no "tradition of winning" is ridiculous too, because it's completely irrelevant. Teams change in football, the English teams that failed had completely different players. Spain had no tradition of winning before they went on their 2008-2012 run either, they were seen as even bigger bottlers than England now. It's all about the generation you have.
Yes they are bad. But still better than Colombian managers, those are absolutely worthless.
Yeah it just takes on generation of players to change that. Look at Spain, they were a bit like England. Big footballing nation that kept flattering to deceive and then it all just clicked and they went on a tear, winning game after game in dominating fashion. You don't need a history of winning to become a winning team.
Edit: I didn't read your last sentence before posting
but essentially, agree with your post.England are the new Moments FC or that might be Southgate in a nutshell
I watched Spain . Regardless of what style of football they play , they engineered about 5 opportunities to shoot from centre of goal some just outside the box , some just inside . We don't seem to create those .
Spain create multiple other ways aswell . We just make very hard work of it .
Spain create multiple other ways aswell . We just make very hard work of it .
I genuinely think that was the worst managerial performance I’ve seen in my lifetime. England have dodged a bullet completely. What kind of a coward waits till the 92nd minute to bring on a second striker? It’s like he doesn’t actually realise England are going out if we don’t manage a goal. Just unbelievable. Fergie used to throw the kitchen sink at scoring late goals, he should be finishing that game with one CB and get every bit of firepower he can on. It’s baffling.
As a few have said the real worry outside of us just being crap is Southgate literally, once again, decided to sit in and defend the one goal lead against bloody Slovakia who then basically took control of the game and created some chances. That was his conscious decision, even after what happened in previous tournaments, he just won’t change.
I just cannot see Southgate managing a club team.
He will stay at the FA in some capacity.
He won’t want the media hating treatment once the Euros are over.
He will stay at the FA in some capacity.
He won’t want the media hating treatment once the Euros are over.
I agree – and was also picturing SAF on the sidelines if we ever sat back like Southgate's teams did. He would be livid and shouting at the players to push forward. Whereas Southgate seems to encourage this retreat.
Y'know, I wonder if Klopp would be a option for the FA once this tournament is over.
We can't continue with GS.
We can't continue with GS.
There are not many managers as awful as Southgate, the guy is truly calamitous when it comes to England's chances of winning these big tournaments.
Potter would be an absolute massive upgrade on Southgate.
If England had gone out last night, the onslaught on Southgate would have been massive.
It takes a special type of manager to get that squad to play so poorly on a consistent basis.
Potter would be an absolute massive upgrade on Southgate.
If England had gone out last night, the onslaught on Southgate would have been massive.
It takes a special type of manager to get that squad to play so poorly on a consistent basis.
It’s really mental that we always look so tired. Especially looking at our squad. Just do the Madrid thing they often do with Kroos and Modric. Start one, bring the other on after 60 or so, then switch it the following game.
Foden / Jude in the 10
Saka / Palmer wide right
Kane / Toney up top
Gordon on the left. Play Gomez left back. Walker/TAA at right back depending on who’s fittest. Wharton/Mainoo depending on the oppo and form.
This idea that we need players to play for 90 minutes is stupid. Loads of our players are interchangeable. We have a really strong squad. Flogging Saka/Kane/Bellingham when they’re clearly not in top condition is madness.
Foden / Jude in the 10
Saka / Palmer wide right
Kane / Toney up top
Gordon on the left. Play Gomez left back. Walker/TAA at right back depending on who’s fittest. Wharton/Mainoo depending on the oppo and form.
This idea that we need players to play for 90 minutes is stupid. Loads of our players are interchangeable. We have a really strong squad. Flogging Saka/Kane/Bellingham when they’re clearly not in top condition is madness.
This England team at it's worst looks bad in the same ways as Sven and Capello's England teams looked bad at their worst (especially Capello) - midfield full of talent but not connecting. Timing of runs way off. People either congested and running into each others' spaces, or everyone making attacking runs at once, sitting on the shoulder of the defence, with no-one in the middle to pass to. I was watching the space between defence and midfield yday and despite having two and a half (Kane being the half) number 10s in the team, there was regularly no-one in there.
I really don't understand the longing for those years - the best games were good but it was often total dross. Southgate's England have gotten worse in the last ~3 years but it's now just "back to normal" for me - his first five years was the first time I remember seeing an England team with any kind of tactical identity and I'm touching 40.
I don't agree that Southgate is doing a worse job than either of them, it's just not better. I think it feels worse because Premier League football has become so, so good and it's increasingly difficult to replicate that style of play at international level given the need for fairly intensive coaching (though admittedly if we were going to try to do that, Southgate is not who we'd pick).
The best way to do it, which teams like Spain have leaned towards in the past, would probably be to pick the English spine of a club whether or not they are the "best" players and seek to directly replicate their style, with players from other clubs filling in the vacant positions. I often thought in ~2018 it might have made a lot of sense to have all the Spurs players in the starting XI just because there were so many and they were used to playing together - but it's not clear now that we could do something like that in the same way with our best players more dispersed, and fewer from any one club.
I really don't understand the longing for those years - the best games were good but it was often total dross. Southgate's England have gotten worse in the last ~3 years but it's now just "back to normal" for me - his first five years was the first time I remember seeing an England team with any kind of tactical identity and I'm touching 40.
I don't agree that Southgate is doing a worse job than either of them, it's just not better. I think it feels worse because Premier League football has become so, so good and it's increasingly difficult to replicate that style of play at international level given the need for fairly intensive coaching (though admittedly if we were going to try to do that, Southgate is not who we'd pick).
The best way to do it, which teams like Spain have leaned towards in the past, would probably be to pick the English spine of a club whether or not they are the "best" players and seek to directly replicate their style, with players from other clubs filling in the vacant positions. I often thought in ~2018 it might have made a lot of sense to have all the Spurs players in the starting XI just because there were so many and they were used to playing together - but it's not clear now that we could do something like that in the same way with our best players more dispersed, and fewer from any one club.
Spain won the Euros in 1964, so their gap between trophies was 44 yyears. That's a long time.
But not as long as England, who have been waiting FIFTY EIGHT YEARS for another trophy win. A drought quite unprecedented in the annals of European football history amongst the major nations.
Re the the 2 main trophies, the World Cup and the Euros, this is how it currently stands:
Germany - 7
Italy - 6
Spain - 4
France - 4
England -1
England is an anomaly, and it's not clear why. You talk about 'generations', but how much longer will England have to wait? You'd hope only a couple of weeks, given this history of failure.
I'd go so far and argue that England simply can't be called a "major nation" based on this history.
The British version of Greg Berhalter
I mean, I get what you are saying, but they have everything else that you need:
- Strong football history
-Large population
-Strong domestic league
-Great success with clubs in European competitions (even before the league was propped up by foreigners)
Etc., etc. Only one thing is missing
He's totally fecked the balance of the team up. I understand there are different personnel but we used to be reasonably defensively solid under him and now we've totally regressed,
If we're talking all-time, I think they're on that rung below with Netherlands and Portugal. At their best, they're contenders for any tournament (and possibly favourites), but against an Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, Italy or Spain side at their best, they're almost certainly the underdogs (even if slightly).
At their worst, they're struggling to qualify (perhaps not with the tournament expansions), and at the sort of average level, you see them limping through groups and knockout games that (on paper) should have been relatively straightforward.
The anomaly with England is how strong the league has been. The Premier League has been in the top two of the UEFA Coefficient rankings for all but four seasons since it was first used in 2002/03. It's never slipped lower than third.
It's not an anomaly when the majority of the best players are foreign though is it?
Yep. I really see it as such: England is the one (and probably only) country that should be a true major force in international football, but isn't.
Worse than his tactics is his cowardice and man management, which manifests itself in dick moves like bringing on Toney with about a minute to go last night.
I’ll never forgive him for when he brought on Sancho and Rashford for penalties vs Italy after showing zero faith in them all tournament.
I’ll never forgive him for when he brought on Sancho and Rashford for penalties vs Italy after showing zero faith in them all tournament.