Gareth Southgate resigns as England Manager

Gutted. Hopefully Southgate is recognised as a great manager for England, and if Slot doesn't work out for Liverpool they will get a top manager in Gareth to replace him.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Germany pushed Spain all the way and arguably played better, this wasn't some unbeatable Spain side like from the previous decade. England had a superior squad to Germany so any good manager should have been able to challenge Spain, rather than play on the back foot in the hope of getting a lucky goal.
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Spain deffo was not an amazing side that is special, but Germany was not at all better, there is quite a gap.

We didn't have a superior squad.
 
Hammondo said:
Germany wasn't really a threat though. They are not that good.
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They had a much higher xG during the game (2.2 vs 1.4) so you say they weren't a threat is counter to the facts.

Germany matched them throughout the game and for better finishing would've atleast taken to penalties.

Also I would argue that England have better squad. Maybe the first XI, Germany is better, but when you go to the squad level England is far better.
 
Once the tournament starts, you don’t have much time to get the non-performing players performing.

Kane barely looked fit, Foden was better but still poor, Bellingham looked knackered and wasn’t close to performing well. All 3 have had sublime seasons for their respective clubs, but that doesn't warrant the time on the pitch that they were given.

It is absolute fecking madness that Southgate persisted with 3 underperforming players in such key positions.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
They had a much higher xG during the game (2.2 vs 1.4) so you say they weren't a threat is counter to the facts.

Germany matched them throughout the game and for better finishing would've atleast taken to penalties.

Also I would argue that England have better squad. Maybe the first XI, Germany is better, but when you go to the squad level England is far better.
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On paper maybe, but for balance and completeness we don't do well.
 
Id fallen out of love with the England team before Southgate and I think the players hated playing for England. Hes done many things right. Things I’d like to keep with the next manager which Southgate brought.

Be a nice authentic man who cares (it came across and connected the fans with the England set up)
Squad unity - players wanted to play for England again
Man management - the players loved him
Qualifying without any issue. I’m not bothered how we qualify, I hate watching qualfiers. Just get the job done.
No drama, no scandals.

But,

We need someone who also actually understands football and what it means to play football. Whenever I heard Southgate describing a game he always broke it down into moments.

He had got the entire England camp to truely believe winning a tournement was all about the grind and not risking losing. When anyone with any knowledge knows 99% of the time the team playing the best football actually go onto win.

We need someone who wants to be the best team playing the best football.

That might require a bit of failure on the way…
 
Hammondo said:
On paper maybe, but for balance and completeness we don't do well.
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That's where the manager comes in though. Nagelsmann had turned Germany around in terms of performance himself, we weren't playing well in the months before he joined (though I thought we were really good in WC 2022 but had horrible finishing).

Pickford
Walker/TAA Guehi Stones Shaw
Rice Bellingham
Saka Foden Gordon
Kane

This is a pretty good first XI that should challenge any European team.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Germany pushed Spain all the way and arguably played better, this wasn't some unbeatable Spain side like from the previous decade. England had a superior squad to Germany so any good manager should have been able to challenge Spain, rather than play on the back foot in the hope of getting a lucky goal.
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I agree
 
This is great news, hopefully an attacking style manager comes along because England's front 4 should be creating tons of chances.

Could be one of the most fun teams to watch.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
That's where the manager comes in though. Nagelsmann had turned Germany around in terms of performance himself, we weren't playing well in the months before he joined (though I thought we were really good in WC 2022 but had horrible finishing).

Pickford
Walker/TAA Guehi Stones Shaw
Rice Bellingham
Saka Foden Gordon
Kane

This is a pretty good first XI that should challenge any European team.
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Shaw was unavailable until the SF, Bellingham in midfield makes no sense(seriously enough of this. Yes he can tackle and he can jump passing lanes, but he's not a good defensive player unless you ask him to man mark someone. He can be at best a decent defensive player, if he focuses on that, but then you lose him in attack, because he's not at all a natural box-to-box player. He's a fantastic attacking player with the physicality to be useful on defence. BvB were tragic at the back with him in midfield. He's also not a particularly good player on the ball in deep areas either), and Gordon was injured to start with too iirc. But sure, lineups were a big issue and clear sign Southgate had ran out of ideas. There was enough for England to be at least a coherent team with an identity that went beyond "let's hope talent go brrr and we get lucky". This tournament was indeed kind of a failure, despite the final, because england never really gave themselves the chance their talent level deserved, and it was down to the manager first and foremost

And a team that was mediocre, devoid of ideas, options and flexibility for a month wasn't suddenly gonna change all that in 4 days and become good enough to have more than a puncher's chance against a team of Spain's caliber
 
giorno said:
Shaw was unavailable until the SF, Bellingham in midfield makes no sense(seriously enough of this. Yes he can tackle and he can jump passing lanes, but he's not a good defensive player unless you ask him to man mark someone. He can be at best a decent defensive player, if he focuses on that, but then you lose him in attack, because he's not at all a natural box-to-box player. He's a fantastic attacking player with the physicality to be useful on defence. BvB were tragic at the back with him in midfield. He's also not a particularly good player on the ball in deep areas either), and Gordon was injured to start with too iirc. But sure, lineups were a big issue and clear sign Southgate had ran out of ideas. There was enough for England to be at least a coherent team with an identity that went beyond "let's hope talent go brrr and we get lucky". This tournament was indeed kind of a failure, despite the final, because england never really gave themselves the chance their talent level deserved, and it was down to the manager first and foremost

And a team that was mediocre, devoid of ideas, options and flexibility for a month wasn't suddenly gonna change all that in 4 days and become good enough to have more than a puncher's chance against a team of Spain's caliber
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I don't think it's a horrible idea to play Bellingham in midfield, ofcourse it's not his best position but he can still contribute very well. For Dortmund I think a large issue was also their lack of a true number 6 alongside Bellingham, Rice would be much more capable.

Mainoo isn't bad to play alongside Rice himself (talented but still raw). As I said the first XI for Germany can be said to be better but overall the squad is much better, I would kill someone to have the striking options England have.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
That's where the manager comes in though. Nagelsmann had turned Germany around in terms of performance himself, we weren't playing well in the months before he joined (though I thought we were really good in WC 2022 but had horrible finishing).

Pickford
Walker/TAA Guehi Stones Shaw
Rice Bellingham
Saka Foden Gordon
Kane

This is a pretty good first XI that should challenge any European team.
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Not any better than what we used.
 
He did a great job in those 8 years. I liked him, he really brought a real togetherness in the England team and actually made the media and fans somewhat love the team again.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Di Matteo won Chelsea's first UCL when previous managers couldn't, so he should be regarded as one of their best managers. Right?
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If Di Matteo changed the culture at Chelsea and made them competitive over several years, then yes. Anyone can do a one off, consistency is what makes you one of the best.
 
I think England resembles Manchester United in a sense. It's deeply ingrained in the culture to not value possession and look for vertical play. It's not impossible to change that but it's much harder to do it than say Spain, where even a guy no one has heard of can come in and get them to play on the front foot as the foundation is already there with the way these players think and are encouraged to play at almost every stage of their development. Southgate is definitely not good enough a coach to change that but again, you have to ask, why does England need the very best to be able to play like that? It's just like when we act here like we need Xavi and Messi at their prime to be able to play pro active football.
 
Thought Lineker's and Shearer's take on Southgate was spot on. The gist of it was that he was the correct man to take over England at the time, did well to get people behind England and get some cohesion within the group after the Iceland defeat. Stayed 1, maybe 2 tournaments too long as the current group of players are too technical and attack minded for him to figure out. The current group need someone that plays proactive football.
 
Should never have started Kane. Only made changes after Spain scored.

Awful manager, glad he’s finally gone.
 
Theonas said:
I think England resembles Manchester United in a sense. It's deeply ingrained in the culture to not value possession and look for vertical play. It's not impossible to change that but it's much harder to do it than say Spain, where even a guy no one has heard of can come in and get them to play on the front foot as the foundation is already there with the way these players think and are encouraged to play at almost every stage of their development. Southgate is definitely not good enough a coach to change that but again, you have to ask, why does England need the very best to be able to play like that? It's just like when we act here like we need Xavi and Messi at their prime to be able to play pro active football.
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Yeah, there's a big element of this. Obviously the stark difference is that we can sign the best players fitting of such inclination from wherever while England have to do with what they have from their pool of talents.
 
Kopral Jono said:
Yeah, there's a big element of this. Obviously the stark difference is that we can sign the best players fitting of such inclination from wherever while England have to do with what they have from their pool of talents.
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English players are for the most part made for vertical football though. They really don't have the players right now for slow, methodical build up and possession. A manager who is really good at coaching that might get them to be decent at it, but it's kind of a waste imo. You're not getting the best out of those players doing that.

From a purely tactical/skillset perspective the best manager for England would be someone like Conte
 
Overall did a good job despite having a few major flaws to his tactics. Luck of the draw helped but it's not like England before that were sweeping lesser teams aside.
 
giorno said:
English players are for the most part made for vertical football though. They really don't have the players right now for slow, methodical build up and possession. A manager who is really good at coaching that might get them to be decent at it, but it's kind of a waste imo. You're not getting the best out of those players doing that.

From a purely tactical/skillset perspective the best manager for England would be someone like Conte
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Mourinho or tuchel
 
Wilt said:
Should never have started Kane. Only made changes after Spain scored.

Awful manager, glad he’s finally gone.
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It is not so easy. Imagine the backlash if he had not started Kane. Hindsight right?
As for Southgate, as long as he stays far away from United, I couldn't care less
 
Escobar said:
It is not so easy. Imagine the backlash if he had not started Kane. Hindsight right?
As for Southgate, as long as he stays far away from United, I couldn't care less
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This statement is true in isolation with Kane in some semblance of form.

Off the back of how he's played in the tournament I don't think he'd have faced much backlash
 
Kopral Jono said:
Yeah, there's a big element of this. Obviously the stark difference is that we can sign the best players fitting of such inclination from wherever while England have to do with what they have from their pool of talents.
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I think it's reflected by how important Mainoo has been to both so quickly at 19 years old.
 
Escobar said:
It is not so easy. Imagine the backlash if he had not started Kane. Hindsight right?
As for Southgate, as long as he stays far away from United, I couldn't care less
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He said literally right after the final that he knew Kane was struggling for fitness after his injury.

England also looked far better without him on the pitch.

Not starting Kane only receives backlash if England play shit, and even then, it can be mitigated by explaining Kane's lack of fitness before we'd lost the final.
 
Alex99 said:
He said literally right after the final that he knew Kane was struggling for fitness after his injury.

England also looked far better without him on the pitch.

Not starting Kane only receives backlash if England play shit, and even then, it can be mitigated by explaining Kane's lack of fitness before we'd lost the final.
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Southgate is a proud Englishman. You have to understand that. He loves the fans and he was 100% committed to serving them and wanted nothing more than to win the a trophy for them.

The one caveat being that he was actually more loyal and committed to Harry Kane than anything else. Ultimately he chose Kane’s interests over England’s interests.
 
ErikElevenHag said:
This statement is true in isolation with Kane in some semblance of form.

Off the back of how he's played in the tournament I don't think he'd have faced much backlash
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He would, for sure. One way or the other, it would be the old what if and how could you....
 
Alex99 said:
He said literally right after the final that he knew Kane was struggling for fitness after his injury.

England also looked far better without him on the pitch.

Not starting Kane only receives backlash if England play shit, and even then, it can be mitigated by explaining Kane's lack of fitness before we'd lost the final.
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England would still have played shit. So the pundits and fans would have hunted him anyhow
 
Escobar said:
England would still have played shit. So the pundits and fans would have hunted him anyhow
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England literally looked at least semi-decent without him.

The problem was that they played 2/3 to 3/4 of every match handicapped by Southgate's insistence on starting Kane.
 
Alex99 said:
England literally looked at least semi-decent without him.

The problem was that they played 2/3 to 3/4 of every match handicapped by Southgate's insistence on starting Kane.
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In the last 5 minutes of the gsme, pushing for a goal
 
Escobar said:
In the last 5 minutes of the gsme, pushing for a goal
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...yes. We looked far more dangerous when we had a mobile striker, playing with energy, making it difficult for the opposition centre-backs, rather than one lumbering about the midfield, not doing much of anything. It's a massive shame that said strikers only got a chance to play at the very end of matches, while Kane got to start seven on the bounce, only for Southgate to come out after we'd lost the final and go "yeah, Kane was shit because he's not fully fit."

What are you even arguing at this point?
 
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