I guess not? Was it meant to be a joke?
Gareth Southgate resigns as England Manager
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
I guess not? Was it meant to be a joke?
That game was embarrassing. Italy team was good and we had no divine right to beat them but they weren't good enough for us to only have 34% of the ball for any other reason than after going up 1-0 we decided we didn't really want the ball that much.
You can say pressure caused the players to drop deep and want to turtle, but it is up to the coach in these situations to change that attitude and for the players to have faith in continuing to play his way. The reality being that Southgate doesn't really have a way at all, he is a politician masquerading as a football manager who relied on individual quality and vibes throughout his entire England career. He most suited the team when he could adapt a very simple defensive system and kick long to Sterling to dribble his way through teams or Maguire to bully teams on corners. Because that's his limit as a coach.
I think he's a gentleman who was genuinely well liked by the players and I salute his work in turning around the terrible vibes around the NT but the time to step down was after that Euros. He isn't suited to the squad we have now nor is he capable of producing performances from it. Less expected goals this tournament than Croatia who went out of the groups. That isn't a personnel problem its a coaching issue. We were never going to beat Spain because under Southgate we have at no point remotely improved our fundamental issues with keeping the ball or playing our way past a press.
It would be a shame if our good luck period ended but oh well, that's life.
Please ban this user
If it wasn't for a bicycle kick saving him in the 94th minute we'd have hilariously lost a round of 16 game .. against Slovakia.
Southgate wasn't the difference between a final and a quarter. Individuals scoring wonder goals and a great selection of penalty takers was. Nothing about the Watkins, Saka or Bellingham goals was down to coaching, it was just quality players doing incredible things.
England teams of the past had harder draws and a psychological block on penalty shootouts. Those are the only difference, Southgate isn't a miracle worker. England were completely diabolical during this tournament, you can't have Foden, Palmer, Saka, Bellingham, Mainoo, Wharton, Trent etc and look like a team for whom stringing three passes together or getting a shot away is a challenge.
Doubt Klopp. Poch or Tuchel will go anywhere near it. They’re all in the £12m+ salary bracket. Potter current favourite, but not sure why? We’ve got 6 Nations League matches before the end of the year, starting early September. Wonder if they will appoint an interim until end of year.
It’s an easy narrative to make. I’m sure there is just as much pressure on managers in Germany, France etc. Surely better to look at what can England improve?
I look back at past mistakes made by England compared to other nations and we continue to be one step behind. Going back from not practicing penalties, the psychological aspects of tournament football, even basics like retaining the 4-4-2 formation way beyond other nations.
St George’s Park and the youth set up has been a vast improvement but we are still behind the likes of France and Spain. Until we are the country ahead of nations in development I don’t think we win a trophy. Even if we end up with a manager that makes the right decisions, unlike Southgate this tournament.
We need someone with Southgate's man management skills, the players turned up for him, in the past some took any reason not to play for certain managers, but better tactically and in decision making.
It was a joke.
But also, the reality is that England never did well against top teams. It is not just the manager, here is a list of the best players in this Euro, please count how many of them are from England:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...portugal-georgia-slovenia-germany-netherlands
Doubt he’ll want it.
It’s like a death wish to future club management, besides which he’ll want too much money.
Southgoat seems like a nice guy but lacked top level experience and balls to take important decisions.If he only would have had Kalvin Phillips available this Euros!
Well, yeah, obviously England player's don't appear on this list; literally everybody has complained the entire time that England's best players are being stymied by Southgate's tactics.
I get where @giorno is coming from in a way. Our press, pundits and social media 'influencers' love throwing world class about, there is an arrogance with them and then other sections of the media, not sport, love to throw dirt around to unsettle the camp as best they can. We have a potential world class player in Bellingham, we have some really good players who play for teams with world class players in them, which makes them look really good. If I hear It's coming Home again I will fecking scream. I hate the song. I hate Sweet Caroline as well. Neil Diamond did better songs than that.
Carsley played a very different brand to Southgate and unlike Southgate (who finished bottom of his group at the Euros before he got the seniors) he has won something. England won the U21 Euros without conceding a goal and he turned to very un-English players like Angel Gomes in order to actually be comfortable retaining and playing with the ball. This is something we massively need to work on as a nation, even if Carsley is another step towards that but achieves worse results than Southgate, long term if we want a path to success it requires not being reduced to booting it long, panicking and withdrawing in to a low block whenever we come against a technical nation.
There's been a revolution in English football in terms of this change at academy level, but it still needs to be implemented across all levels of our national team. A total change in mindset is required, to the point where the likes of Declan bloody Rice don't continue to start every game in a tournament despite being incapable of receiving the ball under pressure or passing forwards.
There's been a revolution in English football in terms of this change at academy level, but it still needs to be implemented across all levels of our national team. A total change in mindset is required, to the point where the likes of Declan bloody Rice don't continue to start every game in a tournament despite being incapable of receiving the ball under pressure or passing forwards.
Think Lee Carsley will be a decent shout. Comes in with zero expectations and decent reputation with u-21.
This is different kind of pressure but think it will be a shrewd appointment with nothing to lose.
Those expecting Klopp, Don Carlo , Tuchel need to give their head a wobble. Poch is the most attainable target with some decent history in England.
This is different kind of pressure but think it will be a shrewd appointment with nothing to lose.
Those expecting Klopp, Don Carlo , Tuchel need to give their head a wobble. Poch is the most attainable target with some decent history in England.
I don't think we have any fear of Southgate becoming our manager now. Losing the tournament and the manner of the play has put him at odds with most fans, they know he would not be welcome.
I don't think he was as much of a serious candidate as made out to be in any case.
Which of the current squad played under Carsley? I have heard it before that the U-21's play a style that most people thought we would be getting with the seniors as well. It would be a brave decision to choose him, but they might be looking at what Spain have done. You would think there is going to be an overhaul in that England squad soon with a lot more younger players coming in.
Just looking at the odds for his next job and they have Newcastle top at 9/2 
Would be hilarious if he did end up there.
Would be hilarious if he did end up there.
feck. Here's hoping Southgate doesn't end the season as our manager...
The best England manager of my lifetime. No, it's not a high bar, but he gave me a reason to care about England after the misery of McClaren, Capello and Hodgson. When he took over, I don't think anyone thought he'd do as well as he has. History will judge him kindly.
That being said, it's the right decision. He clearly had a ceiling as a manager and we've reached it. It always felt like this was one tournament too many. Yes, we got to the final but this was by far our worst tournament under him.
I just hope whoever's next can build on this because I don't think it's as easy as people are making out.
That being said, it's the right decision. He clearly had a ceiling as a manager and we've reached it. It always felt like this was one tournament too many. Yes, we got to the final but this was by far our worst tournament under him.
I just hope whoever's next can build on this because I don't think it's as easy as people are making out.
Yeah, seemingly all round nice guy (maybe too nice!) who did a fairly solid job in building up the team cohesion and culture into a big positive. At the end, just out of his depth as an actual coach. Did well to reach 2 finals (& a semi final) but in fairness, the fixtures were kind to him as well. Shouldn't have lasted as long as he did either. So yeah, if England appoint a good progressive coach, he has the squad and culture to build on to try and go all the way.
Why are you including Wharton in this list?
In terms of win percentage/PPG, Southgate has done his job well. I think that is beyond discussion.
But his brand of football has been really bad. I'm also not buying the argument that he's a great man manager. If he was, then how come so many good players underperformed? It can't all be because of his tactics.
I also think a good manager would have won something in 4 attempts with the players he's had.
But his brand of football has been really bad. I'm also not buying the argument that he's a great man manager. If he was, then how come so many good players underperformed? It can't all be because of his tactics.
I also think a good manager would have won something in 4 attempts with the players he's had.
And? It was a final against a great team. One in the middle of a 30+ unbeaten run, a record. What, England had some kind of right to win that game? They weren't playing Slovakia for fecks sake. Sure, management of second half and extra time weren't good, so? They were still up against a team that got there by beating Belgium and Spain, that had a way better goalkeeper, CBs and midfielders than England, that had one of the most devastating attacks in transition seen at the tournament...
Why is it that so many english fans talk about that game as if it was a given that England should have won? That's sheer insanity to me
France, Germany? Italy? No. Not now. Won too recently for that. There is pressure and expectation of course, but nothing like what england faced coming into this tournament. One of the reasons England did so well under Southgate until now was less pressure and expectation. After losing to Iceland, and then making their first final in 50 years, they'd been playing with house money. This tournament was the first time they came in with actual pressure to win, and it clearly had a negative impact on them, starting with the manager, who turned into exactly what his detractors accused him of being. They need to find a better balance of expectation vs hope. And less toxic medias - in this their only equal is Brazil -
Alternatively, produce a Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Romario, get a manager who knows how to set up a strong defence, and hope they get enough chances together, or an hilariously corrupt tournament aimed at making them win(2030 Saudi Arabia looks like a good bet for that btw, if the PL can swing it. It's all about making FIFA more money)
I want fat Sam back
Is the correct answer. An awful lot of revisionisim going on with regard to Southgate. Sure you can only beat what's in front of you but as said above Southgate was 90 seconds away from being knocked out in the last 16 by Slovakia.
We could fail to make the tournament itself and I still wouldn't want him back
Nailed on for the MU job once Ten Hag is sacked.
Can see Eddie Howe distancing himself from this also, plus he would cost too much compensation. Really think this will boil down to Potter v Carsley, with perhaps Lampard thrown in as an outsider. All are available to start straight away.
I’d bet good money that he does not either get offered or take on a club managerial role. He will spend the rest of his working career working in various roles within the FA.
This is a very good post, and touches on something that's annoyed me a touch with all the 'Southgate reset expectations' guff. The points you make about the ground up changes are pretty much common knowledge, and Southgate has largely been in the right place at the right time to reap those benefits.
That said, I'm not sure England are ever going to produce DMs who are not like Rice. And that it’s a bit of a forlorn hope. In truth, I'm not sure many countries do. You have to be a phenomenally well drilled side to get away with Rodri as your DM (it probably has largely been forgotten how ropey City were when he first came in to replace Fernandinho until they got used to each other) and I think those sorts of players will largely get weeded out of the English youth system in favour of players who are more mobile and can mask structural weaknesses by running around more. On the off chance you get a player who does have the requisite athleticism and technical ability they'll be moved forward.
I think the challenge for the next England manager is simply to define a style of play that suits Rice (or whatever 6) a bit better. The development of Kobbie should help that, and if Southgate had had a bit more about him he’d have recognised Mainoo had something his other players didn’t straight away and built a plan around him rather than chucking him in last second when the (bad) idea of Trent failed.
Nah, I'm Welsh.
With the general quality of international teams going through a bit of a low, I think their chances of actually winning something are pretty good with a less shit manager. All of his "success" apart from that one game against Germany was built on jammy draws and results in other fixtures, and he had almost every player playing way below their club level.
It would genuinely be horrific to have to put up with them winning a tournament and having scrotes like Foden, Grealish and Bellingham spoken of with the hushed tones of reverence otherwise only reserved for the likes of Moore and Charlton for the rest of their lives - and they're definitely closer to that with someone more qualified than the bloke whose managerial CV consisted of relegating Middlesbrough and who got the job on the basis of not being as crooked as Big Sam.
Still don’t see this. Whatever brand of football Wilcox is trying to lay down, Southgate will not be the answer to it.
Really worried about how ETH starts the season now. This is terrible news for us.
Good grief, I hope not!
In the Manchester United tweet thread it says Tuchel is top of the list if ETH fails, not Southgate.
Are you still banging on about this?
It's because the Italy side that was apparently so great failed to qualify for the World Cup before (losing to Sweden in the play-offs) and the one after (losing to North Macedonia in the play-offs).
This unbeaten run you've mentioned contained just one win of note prior to the Euros, and that was against a not-too-great Netherlands.
After the final, and before the end of 2021, Italy drew with Bulgaria, Switzerland (twice) and Northern Ireland, and lost to Spain. Within a year of the final, they'd added a defeat to North Macedonia, a 3-0 defeat to Argentina and a 5-2 defeat to Germany.
England should have won because England had a better team.
Didn't Sir Jim interview Tuchel and decide he didn't want him to replace Ten Hag? Why would that be any different in a few months?
Gerrard's keeps getting thrown in, Gerrard and Lampard as co-managers, Wayne Rooney. Obviously if you were a top players you are going to be a world class manager to some deluded people.