Theon
Lord of the Iron Islands
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 13,373
I understand the argument perfectly. Quality players that aren't World Class are being sold for £30-40m (like Witsel, Lucas, Hulk, Pastore, Fernandinho etc) therefore it follows that the market value of World Class players is obviously above this - I put my arbitrary figure at around £50m.
I'm using all clubs that are spending big as an example as to how the value of players has risen. No club is going to spend £20m more than a players value just because they can. "Oil clubs" are paying the market value, which is dictated by the huge revenues of the top teams.
Refer to my example previously - if you gave every club £500m every players worth would increase (you must surely at least agree on this). This being the case why wouldn't transfer fees hugely increase due to an extra £150m+ being "gifted" to top clubs?
Lets turn it around, think of truly World Class player's that has transferred clubs or has had an offer turned down (suggesting a higher market value) in the last 2-3 years (where the price wasn't distorted by contract situations) and the fee that was paid, such as:
Torres - £50m (Oil)
Neymar - £50m (none oil)
Suarez - £40m rejected (none oil)
Bale - Apparently c.£80+m (none oil)
Ronaldo - £80m (none oil)
Kaka - £56m (none oil)
Ibrahimovic - c. £57m (none oil)
There is a pattern that many of these players aren't being bought by the clubs that are apparently inflating the market.
Out of curiosity could you explain to me why Rio Ferdinand, Veron and Rooney were worth £27-30m each 10-12 years ago, but now that our revenues have doubled and profitability tripled that they wouldn't be worth substantially more than this? Unless you believe that United were inflating the market back then just that the "oil clubs" are apparently doing now.
Two points that aren't that important but should be cleared up. Firstly oil clubs is just a convenient way of describing the buyers. I know it sounds stupid but its easier than having to say "by City, Chelsea, Monoco, PSG, Zenit etc". Secondly when you say non oil for Bale, Ronaldo and Kaka the buyer there is Madrid and I included them in the list of those offering huge fees - they have always done this.
1) I'm not entirely sure what your point is when you list those world class players going for huge fees. That isn't really relevant, the issue is non world class players going for huge fees - as you said at the beginning that is what distorts the market.
There was nothing out of the ordinary with the Kaka or Ronaldo transfer fees. Taking into account inflation Zidane was more expensive than Kaka and the second most expensive of all time behind Ronaldo, Figo was around the same amount - so the market for world class players hasn't shifted much yet, but the Bale transfer if it materialises would probably start that process off.
2) You say that you are using all clubs to demonstrate that the entire market has risen, when this isn't true. At its most basic the problem is that certain players are getting sold at inflated values and that this impacts the rest of the market - the teams doing this are predominantly 'oil clubs'.
Look at the list you yourself put up of players getting sold for inflated fees, Cavani, Torres, Falcao, Hulk, Lucas, Pastore, Fernandinho, Bale, Jovetic (not sure why he is in there), Witsel, Rodriguez. Every single one was sold to the clubs I am talking about, the ones that are willing to pay inflated values.
How can you not recognise that? It isn't a coincidence that all these shit deals are being done by clubs with mega rich owners. They aren't 'apparently' inflating the market at all, it's blatantly clear that they already have done so. The Hulk, Witsel, Rodriguez etc etc, transfers affect the price of other players. If Monoco and PSG overpay then that effects the pricing throughout the market.
You are claiming that all clubs are paying these daft prices and that this just represents the market, well find me transfers from United, Arsenal, Juventus, Milan etc that show the same inflated valuations. We dropped out of Lucas because PSG were paying daft price for example.
3) The last paragraph makes little sense, because Rio, Rooney and Veron justified the fees - that is what they were worth. It's like I said before with Martinez, you don't seem able to see the difference between Bayern spending £35million on Javi Martinez and PSG spending £40million on Pastore. United weren't inflating the market when they bought Rooney for £28million because that was his market value. Just because it was a big fee doesn't mean it isn't a players market value - the same it was for Figo, Rui Costa, Vieri, Nedved etc etc.
If you don't like the idea of market value then just ask yourself whether we overpaid for Rooney?
Then ask did Monoco overpay for Rodriguez? Or Zenit for Hulk? Witsel? Pastore?
In the former example it was a big fee but it was in line with what you would expect to pay, Rooney was the best prospect in English football. It doesn't change anything in the market because no inflated fees are being paid.
In the latter example it does exactly that. Look at Brendan Rodgers at the press conference - "If Bale is worth £100million then so is Suarez", in the same way Levy will be saying "If Rodriguez is worth £40million then Bale is worth £80million".