I remember him being very impressive obviously not to this extent. He was and is always a clean striker of the ball he changed his technique due to these new balls and being able to get good movement on them. Not because his technique was failing IMO.
Gareth Bale Transfer Speculation | Done
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I remember him being very impressive obviously not to this extent. He was and is always a clean striker of the ball he changed his technique due to these new balls and being able to get good movement on them. Not because his technique was failing IMO.
Yes but still 25 games (more than 2 years) without winning a game when he played in the league was a hilarious stat.
I genuinely wasn't being obtuse. I think you're jumping the gun by saying Bale produces more moments of magic on the basis of one season. We are yet to see whether he goes on to replicate last season in the future. For all we know, he may follow Ronaldo's career trajectory and become gradually less jaw-dropping and more efficient.
Just my view, but producing a moment of inspirational magic to win a game 1-0 is no different to bundling one in at the back post from two yards - the impact on the team is the same. I agree that a lot of Bale's goals last season were of real high quality, and that Ronaldo has become a far more functional goal scorer, but Ronaldo's still by far the greater match winner, by virtue of him scoring an insane amount of goals.
As I said originally, people generally accept that he's a special player, however they're (rightly) ridiculing the transfer fee involved - it is absolutely ludicrous.
Of course there's difference between scoring a brilliant goal to win the game with little of help from your partners and scoring a tap in after the whole team has contributed. When you're doing poorly you could expect the former when you know player's capable of it, you cannot expect the latter unless the whole team raises their game for a moment which is more rare at such times.
I disagree regarding Ruud. Although he probably wouldn't be worth £60m, I'd say he'd be £40m+. He was just coming off back to back seasons of being top goalscorer and player of the year in a far, far superior league 12 years ago than the Dutch league is currently in. I would say it was similar to the transfer of Falcao to Atletico Madrid (going from a poor league), which was around £40m.
Comparing Continental players is a bit more difficult because of the exchange rate. Anderson for instance cost us around £17m, despite the cost being €30m (which would be £26m nowadays). The cost of Figo back then was £37m, so if you multiply that by 3 you are looking at around £110m - when Gareth Bale is being touted at £90m I wouldn't say that was outrageous. Likewise Zidane cost around £50m whilst being the best player in the world - I'm sure the current best player in the world would command a similar fee if he was available. I agree regarding Crespo, although there is always transfers that occur way above market value ()see half of Liverpool's squad).
My point was about the going rate for World Class players and that it's not a case of "oil clubs inflating the market", it's that they are paying market value. You're point about Baines/McCarthy is like me saying: the price of 5 star holidays to Dubai has increased rapidly and your retort being: 3 star hotels in Blackpool are still cheap.
I don't get the transfer fee obsession personally. Never have. I just don't get the impression people do "accept" he's a special player from the way he's been talked about on here over the last couple of months.
All I know is he came with a reputation of a set piece specialist and then went on to score about 2 free kicks in 3 years before he changed his technique.
I take your point. But if you score a tonne of tap ins, it tends to be because you've got great skill in terms of finding space, making good runs and 'being in the right place at the right time'.
In any case, Bale needs to produce last season's form for a greater period until he is comparable to Ronaldo, IMO.
I notice Wenger's had a say on this recently...and he's perfectly right in what he's saying too.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/02/gareth-bale-transfer-arsene-wenger
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/02/gareth-bale-transfer-arsene-wenger
He's talking absolute bollocks.
Real Madrid comfortably make what they are spending on Bale every year as profit. If they choose to spend it on players that is their prerogative.
That's the entire point of the FFP regulations.
You have to wonder if Bale really knows what he is getting himself in for? You cant begrudge him for wanting to join Real, but hes possibly going there to replace one of the great players ever, he will have the tag as the most expensive player ever and anything less then what Rolando has done, from a personal point of view will probably be deemed as a failure.
I have to say however, as much as i would like Rolando to join this summer, i would love to both of then playing in the same team. The counter attacking would be immense.
I have to say however, as much as i would like Rolando to join this summer, i would love to both of then playing in the same team. The counter attacking would be immense.
Erm no.. For a start you are ignoring inflation with these deals, not sure why seeing as you clearly know about it.
Figo would cost just under £50million now, so if you think the market has trippled then it is £150million like I said. Zidane would be around £180million. So it quite blatantly hasn't trippled.
Ruud wouldn't be worth £40million, that's what Arsenal are bidding for Suarez. It's double what Jovetic and Negredo just went for, over triple the fee for Mario Gomez. I remember when we bought Ruud and he wasn't accepted as the current best striker in the world or anything like that, which he would need to have been to justify a £40million fee.
The Eredivisie wasn't a far, far superior league at all. There was still an element of risk there, as opposed to buying a striker from Serie A or La Liga. PSV were winning their league but doing nothing in Europe, whereas Porto just won the treble with Falcao top goalscorer in Europe two seasons running. The Falcao example isn't even a good one because pretty much everyone was puzzled by the fee for one, but more importantly there was some blatant third party nonsence going on which means it wasn't a normal deal. I'm not sure how much Atletico themselves paid but it wasn't close to £40million, an investment firm paid a substantial portion.
Not that this is even the point, the only relevant part is your argument at the end.
IMO they quite blatantly are inflating the market, why else would they be the ones bidding unreal fees for Cavani and Falcao. James Rodriguez just went for £40million to Monoco, but are you going to tell me "that's his market value"?
Do you think PSG were the only team who wanted Thiago Silva? Of course they weren't, but they were willing to pay just under £40million for him which other teams recognised as overpriced. The exact same with Lucas, we were in for him as well but Ferguson wasn't going to compete with PSG because they were offering way over his value.
Witsel and Hulk went for around £80million to Zenit, was that their market value? Of course it wasn't, its an absolutely insane set of transfers and it does inflate the market.
Sure, it takes a great amount of skills and awareness to score goals on a regular basis and Ronaldo is clearly a superior player. He was also a superior player when Madrid paid £80m for him.
Bale's ability to produce something out of nothing is undeniable but it's debatable whether its value will be as high at Madrid as it is at Spurs. They don't find themselves in a difficult position too often, their team is already good enough to challenge for the league if they are consistent enough and I'm not sure if Bale is going to give them that much of an edge in Europe with his lack of experience in big European games. I wouldn't pay £85m for him, he shouldn't cost more than the likes of Falcao, Cavani and Suarez.
Pff Real will make up that 100m in the first week through Bale shoelace sales alone. Wenger is just jelly.
It's also debatable whether he is superior in this aspect at all. Ronaldo has done it at the highest level for years and in the champions league as well. Bale has done it for one season and only on the league. Let him keep it the way Ronaldo has. I personally would put his worth around the same as Suarez. I think the latter is the better footballer but his baggage evens it out?
As for the dribbling comparison with Ronaldo, let's see bale do things like this on a football pitch,
I didn't say that players are "worth" triple the amount after taking into consideration inflation. I said they are worth roughly 3x the value they were (flat). The reason for this is the most profitable clubs in the world turnover double, their net profit is around triple and their wage bill is around triple, so transfer fee's being triple isn't exactly outrageous.
The oil clubs are paying roughly the same price as the rich clubs for top talent, they obviously pay higher wages, but this is because a player would obviously not go to Chelsea, PSG, Monaco or City over Real, United, Barcelona etc if they weren't remunerated far better to compensate.
My point wasn't that Ruud was one of the best strikers in the world (although he was very, very highly rated). It's that you don't have to be one of the best players in the world to command a £40m fee (Rodriguez anyone?). Whether you choose to ignore all the evidence and deem it "over inflated" is your prerogative.
The fact is City, Chelsea, PSG, Monaco wouldn't pay more than they had to in order to sign players. If Torres was available at £35m you can bet that's what Chelsea would have paid, likewise Cavani, Falcao etc. Your example of Thiago is probably quite a good one because it was widely reported that other teams were in for him, but dropped out once the price hit a certain level. It follows then that PSG didn't just decide to offer £20m more than everyone else because they can. There was interest up to a certain level and PSG went just above that level to secure the deal. Something we'll have to do if we want to sign a top class player. Merely saying Fabregas "isn't worth £40-50m" is wholly irrelevant if that's the price of all similarly talented players.
To be honest it's a superfluous argument. The fact is World Class players are now worth £50m+ unless there is a contract issue or a release clause (or the players wages are so high as to offset the fee). Whether you feel this is because every team out of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea, City, Zenit, Monaco, Anzhi and probably Liverpool and a few others have now decided to inflate the market, or whether (as I believe) that players value has in fact increased in line with revenue and profitability is quite irrelevant.
The one thing I would say is that if every team was magically given £500m tomorrow you'd be seeing a lot of player's bought for stupid fee's, I'd imagine Bale's price would instantly double or triple for instance and mediocre players would be getting bought and sold for £50m. This scenario is just an over exaggerated version of what has happened in the last decade. The Champions League gives you £40m more than it did for essentially turning up, the Premier League gives you £50m more likewise and Commercial sponsors are now gifting these teams another £75m. Basically this means that every season for doing nothing we are getting over £150m extra, even deducting a pro-rata wage structure you are left with around £80m. Of course people are going to be paying sky high fees (otherwise known as "the new market value" when they've been gifted an extra £80m.
You mention that world class players are now worth £50m+ but when you look at transfer fees then Cavani, Neymar and Falcao are the only players to have moved for that amount recently (although I'm pretty sure Neymar cost around £45m), before them Kaka, Ronaldo and Zidane were the only ones. Falcao and Cavani went to two sugar daddies clubs too, it cannot be a norm.
He as good as gone.
Glaston you're such an idiot. Why are you always so cocky and arrogant when a club come in for Spurs players? They ALWAYS leave. Spurs are a medium sized team with a great tradition and style of play but ffs there is a food chain, and you're middle at best.
Glaston you're such an idiot. Why are you always so cocky and arrogant when a club come in for Spurs players? They ALWAYS leave. Spurs are a medium sized team with a great tradition and style of play but ffs there is a food chain, and you're middle at best.
If there's a caf food chain you're plankton.
If the reports are true and Real only want to pay £20m up front and the rest on the drip, no wonder Spurs are stalling, I think that is a shit deal.
Yeah, good luck AVB. "Bale is not for sale". It's past the point that saying that becomes believable.
Look at the other transfers of players that are a level below and it'll become apparent.
The transfers of Gotze and Martinez are also quite illustrative. Their release clauses was met on both occasions of around €40m; you can bet that figure would be €10-15m higher (probably much more in Gotze's case) without the clauses. Likewise the price of established (or relatively established) top class players such as: Cavani, Torres, Falcao, Hulk, Lucas, Thiago, Pastore, Fernandinho, Bale, Jovetic, Witsel, Rodriguez, Suarez tells you all you need to know,
You can still sign unknown players with potential on the cheap, as we have done with Hernandez etc. But to buy established quality now costs more than £30m, and to buy top, top level (particularly midfield and forward players) players such as Falcao, Cavani, Suarez, Torres (at the time), Bale etc costs £50m+.
As an aside this is the kind of figure I'd assume Barecelona are looking for Fabregas, possibly a little cheaper as he hasn't been at his best these last 2 seasons (for whatever reason).
It is a shit deal. It means Spurs would have to do the same with any potential deals they use conduct after selling him. Getting £60 million upfront would allow them to conduct their transfer business a whole lot easier. It isn't in Spurs interest at all to sell him, using an installments scheme.
They need at least half the money to buy replacement, I would not sell unless the full amount way paid.
Did we get all the money up front for Ron or was it a large portion up front and some on the drip?
1) The fact that you used Rodriguez as an example of non-world class players going for £40million demonstrates that you don't understand the argument. In the exact post that you posted I used Rodriguez as an example of oil clubs distorting the market - Rodriguez not being world class is the entire point! He was bought by the exact clubs I am talking about, the ones that are prepared to pay inflated values for players.
The market has been distorted by transfers exactly like that, abnormally run clubs purchasing players for way above their market value for inflated fees. Hulk going to Zenit for £50million, Pastore going for £40million etc etc.
If you want to see how that inflates the market then look at Brendan Rodgers press conference today - "If Bale is worth £100million then so is Suarez" - This is how it gets inflated, players get sold above their value and it impacts the entire market.
2) It's ridiculous that you try and explain the higher transfer fees by increased revenues, when the likes of Monoco, PSG, Chelsea, City and Zenit have absolutely not been spending huge sums due to their revenue. It's completely absurd.
3) Your example of the clubs attatching inflated values is completely wrong, Barca, Bayern and Liverpool don't do that - at the moment it is IMO confined to the oil clubs and Madrid, though the latter has always spent lavishly.
Barca for example didn't sign Thiago Silva because they recognised he was overpriced, Liverpool made a shite signing in Carrol but that was just an awful transfer which was also based on the sale of Torres i.e. Newcastle used the Torres sale price as a benchmark for their valuation of Carrol - there is another example of how oil clubs inflate the market, if Torres had been chearper then so would Carrol.
Bayern you have just claimed are attatching inflated valuations because they have bought expensive players, and its an awful argument, If you cant see the difference in Bayern spending £35million on Javi Martinez and PSG spending £40million on Pastore then there is no point having this discussion. That wasn't an inflated value, he is that good and justfies the fee.
4) It also isn't irrelevant because the whole market hasn't yet adopted inflated fees.. But they could soon do. Arsenal bidding £40million for Suarez is a fair bid, but Rodgers wants around far more than that due to comparison with inflated transfers. Wigan want £20million for McCarthy and Everton want the same for Baines. But those transfers haven't yet materialised (and probably won't).
Cavani - Oil club
Torres - Oil club
Falcao- Oil club
Hulk - Oil club
Lucas - Oil club
Thiago Silva - Oil club
Pastore - Oil club
Fernandinho - Oil club
Bale - Madrid
Jovetic - Oil club
Witsel - Oil club
Rodriguez - Oil club
Suarez - Nothing has yet happened.
The only thing that those transfers tell us is that some abnormally financed clubs are distorting the market, which is the whole point that you keep missing.
I seem to remember at the time of the deal that it was one £80m payment.
More like cornering the market.
What are you talking about? You should probably read the thread.
The point is that players are getting sold to these clubs for ridiculous amouts, and that paying inflated fees impacts the rest of the market.
I understand the argument perfectly. Quality players that aren't World Class are being sold for £30-40m (like Witsel, Lucas, Hulk, Pastore, Fernandinho etc) therefore it follows that the market value of World Class players is obviously above this - I put my arbitrary figure at around £50m.
I'm using all clubs that are spending big as an example as to how the value of players has risen. No club is going to spend £20m more than a players value just because they can. "Oil clubs" are paying the market value, which is dictated by the huge revenues of the top teams.
Refer to my example previously - if you gave every club £500m every players worth would increase (you must surely at least agree on this). This being the case why wouldn't transfer fees hugely increase due to an extra £150m+ being "gifted" to top clubs?
Lets turn it around, think of truly World Class player's that has transferred clubs or has had an offer turned down (suggesting a higher market value) in the last 2-3 years (where the price wasn't distorted by contract situations) and the fee that was paid, such as:
Torres - £50m (Oil)
Neymar - £50m (none oil)
Suarez - £40m rejected (none oil)
Bale - Apparently c.£80+m (none oil)
Ronaldo - £80m (none oil)
Kaka - £56m (none oil)
Ibrahimovic - c. £57m (none oil)
There is a pattern that many of these players aren't being bought by the clubs that are apparently inflating the market.
Out of curiosity could you explain to me why Rio Ferdinand, Veron and Rooney were worth £27-30m each 10-12 years ago, but now that our revenues have doubled and profitability tripled that they wouldn't be worth substantially more than this? Unless you believe that United were inflating the market back then just that the "oil clubs" are apparently doing now.
Don't get upset. I have read the thread. You do know what "cornering the market" means don't you? It's exactly what these oil-rich clubs are doing.
If Sky Sports are reporting Gareth Bale is unhappy at AVB's comments, what does that mean for Glastons idea that their relationship is so good? I thought he'd bought into the project and would sign an extension? Is this still the case?
how's this working out for you then? Lulz.
To be fair, I don't think Glaston or Bale could've imagined that Madrid would be so eager
Umm ... last time I checked he was still a Spurs player. But if you know different then I bow to your superior knowledge.
Already wheeling and dealing with Madrid, "we this and us that" indeed. Heh heh heh...
Bale will probably stay this season and go to Madrid the next, similar to what we did with Ronaldo.
Difference is, we had Champions League football when Ronaldo was with us. Spurs don't and with the interest Real are showing, a move could end up being pushed through this season, though Spurs are currently standing firm.
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