You have to take into account the historical context too. Obviously GOT is set in a fictional world but it seems to mostly follow middle age traditions. While Cersie and Jamie aren't married they're essentially an item (only it's kept between the two of them). In middle age morality there's no such thing as rape between a man and his wife.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
No Eboue.
You did not write the book or the extra scene in question on the TV show. It is not your story. No one is asking you to decide if what happened is, by 21st century western legal standards, tantamount to rape. You have decided to make that call yourself which is kind of odd for a fictional situation, especially when the person who wrote the scene has clarified the intention of it.
I can say that I think Jon Snow was fantasising that Ygritte was his Dire Wolf when he was banging her but it won't ever make it part of the actual story.
You don't get to decide what is and isn't rape. A woman said no repeatedly. A man forcibly had sex with her. That is rape. If the director didn't want it to come across as a rape, he shouldn't have had one of his characters rape another one. You thinking that only the intentions of the person creating something are relevant is what is "kind of odd".
Your analogy is ridiculous. A better comparison would be if the director instructed John Snow to call out the name of his wolf while having sex with the girl. In that situation, the director would not then get to claim that it had nothing to do with it.
Nobody was raped Eboue. It was two actors in a scene that was not intended to portray rape. Jamie having raped Cerci will not be part of continuing narrative.
I do not decide if it was rape and neither do you. The writer creates the narrative and he has clarified that it was not rape.
It is fiction.
I do not decide if it was rape and neither do you. The writer creates the narrative and he has clarified that it was not rape.
It is fiction.
But surely the director of the show makes the reality and if he says it wasn't rape, then it wasn't. Regardless of real life and what we all think, by the mouth of the show god himself it wasn't rape.
EDIT: And I'm willing to wager that it won't be referred to as rape in any future episode, meaning it wasn't rape.
EDIT: And I'm willing to wager that it won't be referred to as rape in any future episode, meaning it wasn't rape.
Thanks for clearing that up with a condescending tone. Allow me to respond in a similar vein. Of course no one was raped, just like the actor that plays Jamie still has both of his hands and Sean Bean is still alive, you lunatic. The director does not get to decide what rape is. If he directs something that has all the criteria of rape, it is rape. If he directs Die Hard, he doesn't get to "clarify" that it isn't an action movie.
Are you sure? Sometimes it's weird to imagine him actually being alive.
This thread's certainly padded out my ignore list. Christ.
It doesn't matter what the director meant it to be, his job is to portray it as he wants it. If he cocks it up and makes it look like something he didn't want, then he can't come out afterwards and tell people what it was supposed to be and expect it to just change what it was he actually let go to air.
Besides, I'm not sure "not consenting to consenting" is actually a thing. He's essentially telling people that Jaime raped her until she liked it.
It doesn't matter what the director meant it to be, his job is to portray it as he wants it. If he cocks it up and makes it look like something he didn't want, then he can't come out afterwards and tell people what it was supposed to be and expect it to just change what it was he actually let go to air.
Besides, I'm not sure "not consenting to consenting" is actually a thing. He's essentially telling people that Jaime raped her until she liked it.
It is essentially a bad take on marital rape.
It was a bit of a rapey scene, but there's been plenty worse broadcast at the end of the day.
It shouldn't have been rape but it was, because the director is an idiot. No doubt, what we saw on screen was rape.
However, it's very unlikely that it will ever be regarded as rape on the show as it apparently wasn't meant to happen. So, for the purposes of character developments and future plot lines it's probably best to pretend the director did his job properly.
However, it's very unlikely that it will ever be regarded as rape on the show as it apparently wasn't meant to happen. So, for the purposes of character developments and future plot lines it's probably best to pretend the director did his job properly.
This put what I meant to say better than I did. Thank you.
Anyone got a stream for the last episode? Can't seem to find one working.
Murder, child killing, torture, amputation - fine.
One dodgy character raping an extremely unlikable one - OMG feckING SEXISTS feck THIS SHOW
One dodgy character raping an extremely unlikable one - OMG feckING SEXISTS feck THIS SHOW
Don't forget the guys who offered to trade chicken for a go at an underage Arya.....but they got killed so it all ended ok.
What is interesting is that I have asked 4 females who I know watch the show if they thought it was rape, and not one of them has said yes. Now granted a very small sampling, but interesting.
Of course they are all 4 pretty smart and the fact that they were watching a TV show not a real life incident may be playing on how they viewed the scene.
This is the sort of thoughtful analysis I've come to expect when I see your name
You get upset by everything, honestly. Probably get all your political ideals (not to mention fashion tips) from Reddit.
oh, btw. Nice arguing mode you got there, just keep ignoring the point I put forward.
I'm not upset. I'm dumfounded by the stupidity of some people in this thread. I don't visit reddit either, so 0/2.
"That's stupid!"
"Oh typical coming from someone without your name"
Nice debating skills you got there kiddo.
You've misunderstood. This isn't a debate.
Explain this without changing the subject
What makes rape worse than any of those?
What is to explain? You're being hysterical.
What makes rape worse and more offensive than murdering men, women, children, pregnant women. torture, amputation, slavery, implied child abuse?
Now answer that without a "you're being hysterical" or one of your 15 gif macros. You were the one offended by the scene and arguing with everyone else who wasn't.
Now answer that without a "you're being hysterical" or one of your 15 gif macros. You were the one offended by the scene and arguing with everyone else who wasn't.
Where did I say it was?
Clearly you think it's worse seeing as I've never seen you brew up half as much of a shitstorm for those aforementioned incidents.
For feck sake you even said it was worse than the attempted murder of a child!
For feck sake you even said it was worse than the attempted murder of a child!
No one was saying that attempted murder of a child was anything less than attempted murder of a child. People were saying that rape was not rape. The fact that you can't tell the difference is worrying to me.
Well it clearly was rape, that's not even an issue for me. The gripe I have, is the shitstorm this has kicked in news outlets and amongst fans. I can understand if people get annoyed at book material being changed, but genuinely being offended by on screen rape when there are much worse things kicking around this show? Baffles me. Tumblr-age grade 1 feminists it seems.
See, this is where we have a miscommunication. I have no desire to discuss the incredible amount of violence against women in popular culture with someone like you, who has proven himself incapable of nuance or subtly and resorts to insults about Tumblr and Reddit and evil feminists.
A show based on middle age society features violence and oppression against women! Holy shit how dare they be this inaccurate!
q.e.d.
Look, the pie!
Again, this is not a debate. This is me saying to you "Lynk, you are stupid".
Why is the rape scene still being discussed so much?
In terms of the story they've already cleared up that it wasn't meant to be rape in the storyline, even though that's how it came across on screen to the viewers. Given the story follows the storyline and not viewer perceptions you just have to note that Jamie hasn't actually raped her when watching their future scenes.
In terms of any uproar about rape actually appearing on the programme, it's not the first scene in the show to involve rape and it won't be the last. Rape has been implied at some stage in every season, numerous times. Just because it's the main characters doesn't make it any worse, though no other scene has filmed it so closely. The show is packed with sensitive subjects that people have chosen to ignore, in just about every episode I'd say.
In terms of the story they've already cleared up that it wasn't meant to be rape in the storyline, even though that's how it came across on screen to the viewers. Given the story follows the storyline and not viewer perceptions you just have to note that Jamie hasn't actually raped her when watching their future scenes.
In terms of any uproar about rape actually appearing on the programme, it's not the first scene in the show to involve rape and it won't be the last. Rape has been implied at some stage in every season, numerous times. Just because it's the main characters doesn't make it any worse, though no other scene has filmed it so closely. The show is packed with sensitive subjects that people have chosen to ignore, in just about every episode I'd say.
Been a while since I watched the first season but wasn't Danaerys' wedding night very rapey too?
Anyway, I don't think there's really a problem having a rape scene in a tv show. Problems only arise if a) there's confusion as to whether it was supposed to be a rape scene, b) there's confusion over whether the director actually understands what is rape and what isn't, and c) it feeds in to perceived enthusiasm for unnecessary violence against female characters.
Plus people saying "there is way worse on the show" are sort of missing the point. All the murder, torture, child cruelty and everything else is indeed worse but at least everyone accepts that it is what it is. Nobody argues that the Red Wedding wasn't really murder, or that it only started out as murder before turning into something else.
Unfortunately there is much more ambiguity around what people consider to be rape and what they don't though, so it's hardly surprising there's more of a reaction when the TV show (inadvertently) reflects that ambiguity.
Anyway, I don't think there's really a problem having a rape scene in a tv show. Problems only arise if a) there's confusion as to whether it was supposed to be a rape scene, b) there's confusion over whether the director actually understands what is rape and what isn't, and c) it feeds in to perceived enthusiasm for unnecessary violence against female characters.
Plus people saying "there is way worse on the show" are sort of missing the point. All the murder, torture, child cruelty and everything else is indeed worse but at least everyone accepts that it is what it is. Nobody argues that the Red Wedding wasn't really murder, or that it only started out as murder before turning into something else.
Unfortunately there is much more ambiguity around what people consider to be rape and what they don't though, so it's hardly surprising there's more of a reaction when the TV show (inadvertently) reflects that ambiguity.
