Weird.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Theory about whodunnit
I think it was the grandmother and Margaery. They've been sowing the seeds of that for a while and the Grandmother seems the type. Wouldn't be surprised though if Littlefinger and Varys were also involved in some way. Cersie seems to me to love Joffrey despite knowing he's a monster, don't think she'd do it.
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The important thing is he's finally dead
A look of sympathy for what Tyrion was being put through, if I recall correctly.
I think most fans of the show wanted a painful and humiliating death at the hand of someone connected to the Starks.
Arya, yes.
The Theon Greyjoy treatment would have been nice.
Where was Rickon in the Bran part? Was he there somewhere or did something happen to him that I must have forgot of?
I spoiled the episode by myself by accidentally clicking on the thread. Was still quite surprised at Joffrey's death though. I expected more of a confrontational spectacle. I hope he changes his mind on acting and eventually returns as he is great at it.
Iwan Rheon's character is great too, I could definitely see him fecking a melon.
I spoiled the episode by myself by accidentally clicking on the thread. Was still quite surprised at Joffrey's death though. I expected more of a confrontational spectacle. I hope he changes his mind on acting and eventually returns as he is great at it.
Iwan Rheon's character is great too, I could definitely see him fecking a melon.
IIRC, Bran sent him to seek shelter with one of the Stark's allies whilst he and the others went North of the Wall. Rickon left with Osha and his wolf.
It might not have been as gruesome as some would've liked but it definitely looked painful.
Don't know if it was CGI or make-up but they did a great job messing up his face at the end.
I figured it out, I think. It all adds up in the end. It's too convenient to not be linked together. None of my other theories make as much sense.
Clue/spoiler/hint as to where you need to look to find out who did it:
Clue/spoiler/hint as to where you need to look to find out who did it:
Sansa's necklace. Just keep looking at that necklace.
One of his eyes has gone so far east in the final shot, so it's got to be CGI with his facial expression and make-up with his complexion.
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Remembering the king, only the good die young
Was it Jack Gleeson singing at the end too? It sounded like him, and I know he wants to go into theatre.
FFS Ive watched it on repeat and Im clueless again. So frustrating in a good way.
You could interpret events at least 3 ways I'd say. And that is good.
I just can't piece it altogether: who did it, how they did it, and if they did it what were their motives, were they working with someone. I try putting it together piece by piece then come across a roadblock because it doesn't link up. This is truly fascinating and something I cannot wait to find out about.
I have no idea what the motives are. At all.
I'm almost certain of who did it and how, and I suspect I know whether they were working with someone, and if so, who.
The only thing that doesn't make sense is the motive at this point. Joffrey being a little shit isn't a bad motive, but it doesn't apply any more to my suspects than anyone else. There are other people than the people I suspect that have clearer motives, but from what has been shown, I can't see how they did it unless they're in league with my prime suspects.
Next week better deliver answers.
I'm almost certain of who did it and how, and I suspect I know whether they were working with someone, and if so, who.
The only thing that doesn't make sense is the motive at this point. Joffrey being a little shit isn't a bad motive, but it doesn't apply any more to my suspects than anyone else. There are other people than the people I suspect that have clearer motives, but from what has been shown, I can't see how they did it unless they're in league with my prime suspects.
Next week better deliver answers.
I watched the last scene again, and I didn't notice anything in particular in regards to the necklace. Why don't you spill the beans instead? Since you claimed you had it figured out and all.
Right, my theory:
At first, I had two prime suspects. During the wedding there's a shot that shows, as we've seen from a picture in this thread, Olenna Tyrell and Oberyn Martell in the audience while the priest says the words "Cursed be he who would seek to tear them asunder." That little bit of foreshadowing made me think that Oberyn in particular had something planned before I even knew what was going to happen afterwards. After all, the Martells hate the Lannisters with a passion.
At the very beginning of the wedding feast, however, Olenna Tyrell goes over to Sansa and delivers the very telling line "...killing a man at a wedding. Horrid." while stroking her hair and conspicuously picking the gem furthest towards Sansa's left shoulder. You can see it missing when the camera angle changes. The necklace that just happened to be given to Sansa only a mere episode ago. Convenient, isn't it? Combine that with Ser Dontos acting cool as a fish and telling Sansa that she has to escape in order to live immediately after the commotion starts and it surely means that Ser Dontos is in on it too. Varys was also looking fairly suspicious in every scene, but then again, he always does. After Margaery announces the pie Joffrey's goblet is put fairly close to Olenna, giving her the opportunity to put the gem in Joffrey's wine. That's the only window of opportunity to poison Joffrey, given that his wine has been spilled beforehand, and only the people sitting close to Margaery and Margaery herself are close to the goblet. I can't see it being the pie, unless they wanted to risk dozens dying from eating it at the same time.
I'm positive that little gem on the necklace is poisonous itself or a vessel for some sort of poison and that it is the murder weapon. Olenna Tyrell and Ser Dontos are definitely in on it. Margaery too, being so close to Olenna. I can't speculate on who else. It could be anyone, especially if Varys is also a part, given his connections. Joffrey's such an insufferable shit, after all, so anyone could want to kill him. I also listened to all of Olenna's lines afterwards, and there are some seriously fishy ones if you try to connect them with what happened. Basically, the evidence stacks up against Olenna, moreso than anyone else.
Apart from putting Cersei squarely in her place, Oberyn didn't really seem to be up to much, so despite my initial suspicion I can't find any evidence that it was him.
The problem is the motive. Why would the Tyrells want to kill Joffrey before completing the marriage? I can't make heads or tails of that. It would make sense if Tywin was the murderer or a part of the plot, seeing as he has the opportunity to seize the throne, but not much points towards him. He's his usual cold self.
At the very beginning of the wedding feast, however, Olenna Tyrell goes over to Sansa and delivers the very telling line "...killing a man at a wedding. Horrid." while stroking her hair and conspicuously picking the gem furthest towards Sansa's left shoulder. You can see it missing when the camera angle changes. The necklace that just happened to be given to Sansa only a mere episode ago. Convenient, isn't it? Combine that with Ser Dontos acting cool as a fish and telling Sansa that she has to escape in order to live immediately after the commotion starts and it surely means that Ser Dontos is in on it too. Varys was also looking fairly suspicious in every scene, but then again, he always does. After Margaery announces the pie Joffrey's goblet is put fairly close to Olenna, giving her the opportunity to put the gem in Joffrey's wine. That's the only window of opportunity to poison Joffrey, given that his wine has been spilled beforehand, and only the people sitting close to Margaery and Margaery herself are close to the goblet. I can't see it being the pie, unless they wanted to risk dozens dying from eating it at the same time.
I'm positive that little gem on the necklace is poisonous itself or a vessel for some sort of poison and that it is the murder weapon. Olenna Tyrell and Ser Dontos are definitely in on it. Margaery too, being so close to Olenna. I can't speculate on who else. It could be anyone, especially if Varys is also a part, given his connections. Joffrey's such an insufferable shit, after all, so anyone could want to kill him. I also listened to all of Olenna's lines afterwards, and there are some seriously fishy ones if you try to connect them with what happened. Basically, the evidence stacks up against Olenna, moreso than anyone else.
Apart from putting Cersei squarely in her place, Oberyn didn't really seem to be up to much, so despite my initial suspicion I can't find any evidence that it was him.
The problem is the motive. Why would the Tyrells want to kill Joffrey before completing the marriage? I can't make heads or tails of that. It would make sense if Tywin was the murderer or a part of the plot, seeing as he has the opportunity to seize the throne, but not much points towards him. He's his usual cold self.
It's only just dawned on me that poor Sansa now has/had a traitor father, brother AND a traitor husband, poor bugger 
(Though we're all obviously assuming he didn't do it).
(Though we're all obviously assuming he didn't do it).
I've just re-watched the final scene and more specifically when the pie arrives and this seems the most likely resolution. My initial thought was when Tyrion handed Joffrey his goblet - post pie-eating - Olenna or Margaery might have already prepared the poison in a golden goblet near their table - as I noticed most of the goblets are identical - and switched Joffrey's goblet with the one containing poison during all the commotion from the cake-cutting. However, that could illicit more suspicion as it isn't very subtle, so Olenna or Margaery must have slipped the poison in.
Seems the most feasible explanation.
Seems the most feasible explanation.
Just realised that it was actually his son that died.
I can't recall if it's been mentioned on the show, but does Jamie know that Joffery is his son?
Booktards need not reply.
Pretty certain he does, but he never seems like the most involved father.
Oh feck... yeah! Didn't think of that.
The one disappointing thing about Joffery dying is that the show never got to expand on his sadism from the earlier seasons. It's like he stopped being cruel and just became a nobhead instead.
Obviously he does.... he's been privy to the knowledge that he's been sleeping with her for years and that she rarely slept with the King added to the "Golden" hair...
It's obvious that he also detested the little shit.
This is right, I think.
DO NOT OPEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW
The bead at the far right, Sansa's left, is missing in the last shot.
Ah well that looks like a reasonable explanation.
The granny did it, however looks like Sansa has no role to play in it.
Stannis went to war because he knew he was the rightful heir to the throne in the beginning of season 2, he knew this because it became common knowledge that Cersei was getting boned by Jaime and pumping out incest children [Joff]. I think Jaimes comments in the last episode about Cersei "would kill any child she had with you" are pretty sinister. I'm pretty sure in season 1 when cersei visits Bran, and Catelyn is there looking over him she says she "lost" her first child to Robert.
Speculation:
The issue is... what becomes of Sansa? As of now, she's married to the guy that everyone thinks poisoned Joff, so surely everyone will connect the dots and assume Sansa encouraged Tyrion to poison Joff. The Tyrells I assume are the ones who will now have Sansa, so will they do the honourable thing and get her the feck out of the city. Or will they "find her" and hand her over to Cersei thus putting an end to the supposed plot and clearing their names in the process?
They seem to be an honourable bunch so I think they'll smuggle her out of Kings Landing.
They seem to be an honourable bunch so I think they'll smuggle her out of Kings Landing.
I do wonder when Daenarys will make it over the sea. I feel her story is dragging on far too much now, and her army already look more than capable enough of defeating the Lannisters. She's going to need a lot of ships, mind you.
Bran's vision showed us the shadow of a giant dragon flying over King's Landing. Hopefully this happens in this season.
SPECULATION:
Well don't think Sansa will be effected anyway, the granny seems to be fond of Sansa and I won't be surprised if she was the one who sent Sansa away just after Joffrey was killed. It's Tryion who'll bear the brunt of this kill IMO
That's what I thought too, but that vision is probably in 5 years knowing her journey! But I really hope it's an episode 9 event personally.
Speculation:
They'd be a man hunt for Sansa if Cersei and co believe she was in on it though?
I hope so cause otherwise I think I'll stop watching it. How many slaves will she free/avenge by then ? In all seriousness, the dragon looked fecking massive so maybe they grew even bigger than in episode 1 of season 4 ? They were still pretty big.