Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Sylar said:
Dany built up the army and lost them (and her dragon) to the dead. She put on hold her claim for the throne which is what she wanted from the beginning.
None of them had a chance without her. Jon helped put all this together, but given the story we had. without Dany its absolute annihilation.
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Debatable.

Lets say Daenerys doesnt exist. No Dragons, no Unsullied, no Dothraki. But... in the same token, the Night King wouldn't have got an undead Dragon to burn down the wall. Thus the first genuine battle would have been at the wall itself. The North would have been far more prepared to deal with that threat. Whether they'd have had enough troops to deal with that initial army is debatable though. I guess they would have had to smash their way through one of the wall entry points with a few of those undead giants. The battle itself would therefore have been pretty similar to the Wildling attack.

The size of the White Walker army would have been a bit smaller too given that they killed and resurrected a sizable number of people between the wall and Winterfell.
 
RedSky said:
Debatable.

Lets say Daenerys doesnt exist. No Dragons, no Unsullied, no Dothraki. But... in the same token, the Night King wouldn't have got an undead Dragon to burn down the wall. Thus the first genuine battle would have been at the wall itself. The North would have been far more prepared to deal with that threat. Whether they'd have had enough troops to deal with that initial army is debatable though. I guess they would have had to smash their way through one of the wall entry points with a few of those undead dragons. The battle itself would therefore have been pretty similar to the Wildling attack.
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Maybe, but again, it goes back to that stupid mission where they are getting a wight to show Cersei. Without that mission, Dany doesnt go and save them (and thus sacrifice a dragon). If she had listened to Tyrion, she would have left them as they 'knew the risk''

And if it was similar to the wildling attack, they would have been done. Im guessing the giants open up the gates again, but this time they add to their army (without the aerial assault of wiping out hundreds of the undead army in seconds).
 
RedSky said:
Debatable.

Lets say Daenerys doesnt exist. No Dragons, no Unsullied, no Dothraki. But... in the same token, the Night King wouldn't have got an undead Dragon to burn down the wall. Thus the first genuine battle would have been at the wall itself. The North would have been far more prepared to deal with that threat. Whether they'd have had enough troops to deal with that initial army is debatable though. I guess they would have had to smash their way through one of the wall entry points with a few of those undead giants. The battle itself would therefore have been pretty similar to the Wildling attack.
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Bingo. As I said before Dany should just have taken KL first, then had a much stronger army for the WW's. 3 dragons, no scorpions, minimal madness.

Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Bran are fecking idiots that screwed the entire world up for the living.
 
I wish they had used Kinvara more. :drool:



"The dragons will purify non-believers by the thousands, burning their flesh and sins away.”
"Terrible things happen for a reason"
 
Redlambs said:
Bingo. As I said before Dany should just have taken KL first, then had a much stronger army for the WW's. 3 dragons, no scorpions, minimal madness.

Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Bran are fecking idiots that screwed the entire world up for the living.
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BTW, can Bran see the future? as far as I can remember, hes had visions, but since being 3ER he can only see past and present. Dont remember him mentioning future.

Also is it possible, if he does know the future, he cant say anything to interfere? Hence he knows whats coming but allows it to fall into place?
Wouldnt be surprised if we get nothing else from Bran in the finale which would be annoying.
 
Sylar said:
Maybe, but again, it goes back to that stupid mission where they are getting a wight to show Cersei. Without that mission, Dany doesnt go and save them (and thus sacrifice a dragon). If she had listened to Tyrion, she would have left them as they 'knew the risk''

And if it was similar to the wildling attack, they would have been done. Im guessing the giants open up the gates again, but this time they add to their army (without the aerial assault of wiping out hundreds of the undead army in seconds).
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Well, personally if I had the time to prepare for an assault. I'd have blocked up the gates with as much debris as I could to prevent them using them. That way the only way to get through the wall would be over it.

The mission was dumb as feck, what did it actually achieve? Night King got a dragon and destroyed the wall. The humans got Jaime Lannister, who despite killing a number of wights did feck all. Not a good trade and a pretty silly plot device. Had Jaime actually done something substantial in the Winterfell fight it might have mattered (like saving Arya for example).

I'm not even really sure that they even needed the Lannisters help anyway? Had they just all manned the walls with the unsullied, northerners, 3 dragons and dothraki then surely that would have been enough? It's not like the wights built any siege equipment to man a huge fecking wall.
 
RedSky said:
Well, personally if I had the time to prepare for an assault. I'd have blocked up the gates with as much debris as I could to prevent them using them. That way the only way to get through the wall would be over it.

The mission was dumb as feck, what did it actually achieve? Night King got a dragon and destroyed the wall. The humans got Jaime Lannister, who despite killing a number of wights did feck all. Not a good trade and a pretty silly plot device. Had Jaime actually done something substantial in the Winterfell fight it might have mattered (like saving Arya for example).

I'm not even really sure that they even needed the Lannisters help anyway? Had they just all manned the walls with the unsullied, northerners, 3 dragons and dothraki then surely that would have been enough? It's not like the wights built any siege equipment to man a huge fecking wall.
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Not disagreeing at all. As I said, im going based on the story we were provided. Dany sacrificed a lot and wasnt given a thanks and Jon was made to be the hero by Tormund (and the others in ep4)

in fact, I was expecting them (bran) to make a mention that since hes marked, the NK will be able to follow through and get past the magic of the wall. Dont think this was even said. (and link it to the CoF scene from Hold the Door).
 
On a different note., I saw a screen of Jaime hugging Cersei where his right hand grew back. More silly mistakes.
 
RedSky said:
Well, personally if I had the time to prepare for an assault. I'd have blocked up the gates with as much debris as I could to prevent them using them. That way the only way to get through the wall would be over it.

The mission was dumb as feck, what did it actually achieve? Night King got a dragon and destroyed the wall. The humans got Jaime Lannister, who despite killing a number of wights did feck all. Not a good trade and a pretty silly plot device. Had Jaime actually done something substantial in the Winterfell fight it might have mattered (like saving Arya for example).

I'm not even really sure that they even needed the Lannisters help anyway? Had they just all manned the walls with the unsullied, northerners, 3 dragons and dothraki then surely that would have been enough? It's not like the wights built any siege equipment to man a huge fecking wall.
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It's a world in which no one understands how walls or castles work. They did it again in the last episode, had Lannister men outside the walls to meet the Dothraki charge. When if they just went inside and closed the gate what are the Dothraki going to charge at?

If the trip north didn't happen and the NK didn't get a dragon, then Jon, Dany and their armies probably would have all just stood north of the wall waiting for The White Walkers anyway. Surprised they actually had the sense to build their castles on the south side of it given how they inexplicably can't understand the fundamentals of getting behind walls.

Jaime went north because they wanted him to feck Brienne and then go back to Cersei, it's as rushed and poorly thought out as anything else this season. What was he even going to do with one arm and no one trusting him?
 
Sylar said:
BTW, can Bran see the future? as far as I can remember, hes had visions, but since being 3ER he can only see past and present. Dont remember him mentioning future.

Also is it possible, if he does know the future, he cant say anything to interfere? Hence he knows whats coming but allows it to fall into place?
Wouldnt be surprised if we get nothing else from Bran in the finale which would be annoying.
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I've asked this over and over.

Seems like he can, but only glimpses is the best response I've had.

Even so, he's done nothing at all to help the story. Best case scenario, he has actually fecked it by being Sam's sidekick in figuring out who Jon is. And people think Euron was the most pointless character, Bran is a lot worse :lol:
 
Redlambs said:
Isn't that a reddit fake? Those crazy guys over there :)

I hope you didn't wander into the leak thread though, by accident of course!
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Ah really? Someone posted it in whatsapp. The caption seemed reddit-y now that you mention it.
 
Sylar said:
Not disagreeing at all. As I said, im going based on the story we were provided. Dany sacrificed a lot and wasnt given a thanks and Jon was made to be the hero by Tormund (and the others in ep4)

in fact, I was expecting them (bran) to make a mention that since hes marked, the NK will be able to follow through and get past the magic of the wall. Dont think this was even said. (and link it to the CoF scene from Hold the Door).
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Those details were just ignored by the writers. Just lore fluff. I still think the writers didnt have any real idea how to deal with the white walker storyline and had no idea what to do with Bran. I can see lots of head scratching with the middle of the white board having the words "undead polar bear" and then several arrows with question marks filling the board.

Bran is just a mystery character, it's hard to know what he actually is. He says he isn't Bran Stark any longer and yet he treats himself and the Starks as still his family. So which is it? The mystery to me is his decision to tell Jon his parentage, why precisely does Jon actually need to know this information? It didn't help him stop the White Walkers, he did nothing. Likewise so far he's done nothing to stop Daenerys and why does Bran even care about Daenerys right now? He's said it himself a few times that he's just basically a walking wikipedia.

It's an odd character. I'm finding Jons character more bizarre by the episode as well.
 
RedSky said:
Those details were just ignored by the writers. Just lore fluff. I still think the writers didnt have any real idea how to deal with the white walker storyline and had no idea what to do with Bran. I can see lots of head scratching with the middle of the white board having the words "undead polar bear" and then several arrows with question marks filling the board.

Bran is just a mystery character, it's hard to know what he actually is. He says he isn't Bran Stark any longer and yet he treats himself and the Starks as still his family. So which is it? The mystery to me is his decision to tell Jon his parentage, why precisely does Jon actually need to know this information? It didn't help him stop the White Walkers, he did nothing. Likewise so far he's done nothing to stop Daenerys and why does Bran even care about Daenerys right now? He's said it himself a few times that he's just basically a walking wikipedia.

It's an odd character. I'm finding Jons character more bizarre by the episode as well.
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Sometimes a lot of bad stuff has to happen to get to the positive resolution I’m guessing. Kind of like Enigma in WW2.
 
D&D stated that Dany's idiot actions were not planned. So there's that theorry debunked, which to be honest wasn't reflected by the on screen events either.
 
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RedTiger said:
I accidentally did, now I don't know whether to stay up on Sunday for the finale.
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Commit. Even if it ends in a disappointment you were there. Part of us.

It's like staying up for a United game despite the teamsheet being announced to have a partnership of Jones and Smalling. Inevitable disappointment but it's your team right? Through thick and thin.
 
"Now I don't know whether to stay up or not."

How hard is it just to say nothing about leaks? Implied disappointment is just fecking annoying
 
amolbhatia50k said:
D&D stated that Dany's idiot actions were planned. So there's that theorry debunked, which to be honest wasn't reflected by the on screen events either.
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I said I thought they were. That her craziness is a lack of a conscience and moral compass that has been there all along. she didn't just suddenly snap but did what she would have done if she had no advisers to stop her. She now has no advisers to stop her.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
First 3 centuries is irrelevant as no one would remember all those years except Bloodraven and Bran and anyway Targaryen was definitely NOT 3 centuries of some imaginary golden age where all the small folk loved the Targs. You had all sorts of things Duskendale, Ninepenny Kings, Blackfyre rebellion, etc.

Its 25 years since Robert's rebellion and at least 45+ years since the last sane Targaryen king. You can't just invent fan fiction that there are "lots of people who remember the stability of Targaryen rule".
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Aerys' descent into madness began not before the death of his firstborn son, and became serious only around 5 years before the rebellion. And even then, the common people didn't suffer from Aerys' rule itself, but from the acts of war that came with the rebellion, like the sacking of king's landing. There are definitely people alive with nostalgic memories of better times under Targaryen reign. Opposed to that we have Cersei who was forced to a naked walk of shame through the city under the eyes and jeers of all the common folk, and who not too long afterwards blew up the religious center of the whole realm. It makes no sense that she should command more loyalty or be better loved than even a complete stranger.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I said I thought they were. That her craziness is a lack of a conscience and moral compass that has been there all along. she didn't just suddenly snap but did what she would have done if she had no advisers to stop her. She now has no advisers to stop her.
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Well it clearly wasn't planned. It was an emotional spur of the moment reaction. They've clarified it.

And you're just making stuff up now, and pretending Dany was this complete idiot all along who couldn't tell black and white apart without her advisors. And who are these famed advisors? Melsomething and dourface? Incredibly high quality of advisors right there. And who are needed to tell her to not to kill babies.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Well it clearly wasn't planned. It was an emotional spur of the moment reaction. They've clarified it.

And you're just making stuff up now, and pretending Dany was this complete idiot all along who couldn't tell black and white apart without her advisors. And who are these famed advisors? Melsomething and dourface? Incredibly high quality of advisors right there. And who are needed to tell her to not to kill babies.
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Jorah, Barristan, Tyrion, Varys and Jon all at some time or other talked her out of burning something to the ground. It's all there if you are willing to look for it.
 
golden_blunder said:
Yeah but his homes in rubble
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Doesn't matter, Tyrion will have to cough up the keys to Highgarden or he's getting this badass through his chest.

D54gza1XsAE7vXW.jpg
 
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