Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

[B20]

Spoiler

Jon was resurrected, no way he would die.

But I think you are half-right. Jon will kill Greyworm, Arya will kill Dany and probably Jon will use Drogon to burn away the iron throne as it is the symbol of bloodshed. Then he will split the seven Kingdoms with Sansa being Queen of the North and perhaps go North of the Wall to live with Tormund and the free folk.

Spoiler

in a sense he's already dead from the resurrection. Look at how beric describes life after being resurrected. Grmm recently referred to him as being basically a kind of "fire wight".

He was brought back because the red god needed targaryens to defeat the Others. Job done, no more divine direction and help for either targaryen and the new world order won't have a place for them either. The Seven are taking back their kingdoms.

Also, Jon isn't smart enough to to think outside the box to come up with something like this. It'll be tyrions idea and his cerebral nature is what gets to have a lasting impact on the seven Kingdoms

 

[kouroux]

That shitty Bronn scene never should’ve been part of the show.

He would’ve been better utilized being part of King’s Landing for the seige and probably dying or even dying at Winterfell protecting Tyrion against the army of the dead.

There are plenty of scenes in those 5 episodes we could have done without. All the scenes including fat Sam for starters, the Bronn scenes, the Brienne scenes.
All utterly pointless

 

[Kapardin]

That shitty Bronn scene never should’ve been part of the show.

He would’ve been better utilized being part of King’s Landing for the seige and probably dying or even dying at Winterfell protecting Tyrion against the army of the dead.

They just wanted Bronn to get a scene as they didn't know what to do with him. So what to do but chuck in some nude chicks and a dialogue with his best mates, the Lannister brothers. I expect he will make an appearance in the final episode.

I thought it was pretty dumb that Yara had no hand in Euron's death anyway. Another wasted character, like Bronn.

 

[Andy_Cole]

To be fair this episode was the lowest rated in Rotten Tomatoes history for the show. Widely panned by critics. Hardly just the caf being overly negative. The one before wasn't received much better either. The episode was certainly a spectacle but the disappointment in the writing is well justified.

I think lowest rated as so many fans were heartbroken that Dany turned evil.

 

[GhastlyHun]

After reviewing the bells scene, I don't even think she's going mad. It's all about the rule through love or fear thing she says to Jon. So for some reason westeros people will never love her.
(Which doesn't make a lot of sense, since the common folk surely have a lot of sympathy for the Targaryen rule, who on the whole have brought long phases of stability and prosperity to the realm, and even the mad king's madness was mostly constricted to killing his advisors and councillors. The only hints of interaction between the people and her as a queen we have seen were in the north, but the northerners are little accepting of anything from the outside, so their reaction is not a good measure of the realm as a whole. So as with most things in this abbreviated last season, we only have a line of dialogue to establish that people do not love her.)
In the same conversation with Jon, she makes the conscious decision to establish her rule by fear. When the battle is won, she is waiting for the bells in tears, because she has decided to commit horrors to instill fear as a basis for her rule, and she is aware of the monstrosity of the action.
Either way, the way it has been portrayed in the show is unsatisfactory as they simply didn't spend enough time to prove the necessity for rule through fear.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

When was the last tit we saw?

Euron has had a pretty prominent role these last couple of seasons.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Why didnt John just bone her?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

After reviewing the bells scene, I don't even think she's going mad. It's all about the rule through love or fear thing she says to Jon. So for some reason westeros people will never love her.
(Which doesn't make a lot of sense, since the common folk surely have a lot of sympathy for the Targaryen rule, who on the whole have brought long phases of stability and prosperity to the realm, and even the mad king's madness was mostly constricted to killing his advisors and councillors. The only hints of interaction between the people and her as a queen we have seen were in the north, but the northerners are little accepting of anything from the outside, so their reaction is not a good measure of the realm as a whole. So as with most things in this abbreviated last season, we only have a line of dialogue to establish that people do not love her.)
In the same conversation with Jon, she makes the conscious decision to establish her rule by fear. When the battle is won, she is waiting for the bells in tears, because she has decided to commit horrors to instill fear as a basis for her rule, and she is aware of the monstrosity of the action.
Either way, the way it has been portrayed in the show is unsatisfactory as they simply didn't spend enough time to prove the necessity for rule through fear.

It makes a lot of sense. Aerys was feared and hated by the peasants for years at the end of his reign because its implied he would kill anyone on his whims and paranoia. No one living would have any memory of the last stable, good Targaryen King (which would have been Aegon the Unlikely). Most people would probably have the fond nostalgia for the peace years of Robert Baratheon. Mad King would be mostly an evil, scary legend to spook your kids with for decades. Plus everyone was scared of the legends of Aegon the Conqueror burning people in castles. So to the common folk, Daeny is simply a scary foreigner with dragons.

 

[RochaRoja]

They just wanted Bronn to get a scene as they didn't know what to do with him. So what to do but chuck in some nude chicks and a dialogue with his best mates, the Lannister brothers. I expect he will make an appearance in the final episode.

I thought it was pretty dumb that Yara had no hand in Euron's death anyway. Another wasted character, like Bronn.

Euron was just a mistake who should never have been part of the show in the first place. Same with the Sand Snakes.

Imagine if all the time wasted on their scenes throughout the show had instead been used to further build the main plots so we didn’t have the war against the white walkers and the war against Cersei crammed into one season.

 

[Wumminator]

I think lowest rated as so many fans were heartbroken that Dany turned evil.

It’s because it was awful!

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That shitty Bronn scene never should’ve been part of the show.

He would’ve been better utilized being part of King’s Landing for the seige and probably dying or even dying at Winterfell protecting Tyrion against the army of the dead.

Bronn has spin off written all over him. 'Jon and Bronn do Westeros' or 'Dude, where's my Dragon?!'

 

[Drifter]

Both writers have been rewarded with being involved in the next Star War movie.

 

[Drifter]

Awful video

Awful season

 

[GhastlyHun]

It makes a lot of sense. Aerys was feared and hated by the peasants for years at the end of his reign because its implied he would kill anyone on his whims and paranoia. No one living would have any memory of the last stable, good Targaryen King (which would have been Aegon the Unlikely). Most people would probably have the fond nostalgia for the peace years of Robert Baratheon. Mad King would be mostly an evil, scary legend to spook your kids with for decades. Plus everyone was scared of the legends of Aegon the Conqueror burning people in castles. So to the common folk, Daeny is simply a scary foreigner with dragons.

You have 3 centuries of Targaryen rule with long times of peace before that. And as I said, the mad king's rule per se did not bring war to the kingdom, so for the common people all was still well until the rebellion. Taking Robert's rebellion, rule, and the Stark-Lannister aftermath together, we have ~20 years without a Targaryen king of which only 10 went without major acts of war. There are lots of people alive who remember stability under Targaryen rule, and on top of that the stories that are handed down from one generation to the other.

 

[Buchan]

I think lowest rated as so many fans were heartbroken that Dany turned evil.

 

[Slevs]

It’s not just a show about tits and dragons is it? It was a well written fantastic show at the start. Now it has become a parody of what it once was, but it was once a good show.

Okay, but you won't be fined if you stop watching it cause you don't like it anymore.

I get it, it was better before, now it is worse, still 1 episode left. Is it that hard to watch it without having medieval battle veterans talking about military tactics or why the ballistas hit 1 dragon instantly but missed the other with all their shots?

I haven't watched the walking dead but I heard the writing went to shit after a few seasons and everyone stopped watching it because it was shit. Why can't it be the same for this series?

It's obvious, the writers ran out of source material (the books), fecked up massively, and now we have this. It's not good that it has happened but constantly complaining week in week out about an already shot TV show will not change its ending or anything.

This isn't really aimed at you Wumminator but you just happened to quote me giving me a platform for a reply. I don't like the fact that I have to trawl through 10 pages of hate posts to find a theory about what might happen.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Euron was just a mistake who should never have been part of the show in the first place. Same with the Sand Snakes.

Imagine if all the time wasted on their scenes throughout the show had instead been used to further build the main plots so we didn’t have the war against the white walkers and the war against Cersei crammed into one season.

Euron was a brilliant character in the books. They just totally fecked him up in the show. Didn't bother to flesh him out at all and made him the most stereotypical villain imaginable. I know the actor wasn't great either but I do feel bad for him because he had zilch to work with. People can talk about not having source material as a reason for the writers ballsing things up but they left out a hell of a lot of the best source material, or changed it for the worse, too.

 

[kouroux]

Jon was resurrected, no way he would die.

But I think you are half-right. Jon will kill Greyworm, Arya will kill Dany and probably Jon will use Drogon to burn away the iron throne as it is the symbol of bloodshed. Then he will split the seven Kingdoms with Sansa being Queen of the North and perhaps go North of the Wall to live with Tormund and the free folk.

Drogon has to die too, the end of dragons and the end of magic

 

[Kapardin]

Both writers have been rewarded with being involved in the next Star War movie.

That's their level. Star Wars movies don't actually have real depth in characters, they are more a rehash of the old movies. These guys write some great cinematic set-pieces but struggle with characters who have depth, so Star Wars falling in the former category should be fine with them.

 

[Wibble]

It’s not just a show about tits and dragons is it? It was a well written fantastic show at the start. Now it has become a parody of what it once was, but it was once a good show.

Course it is. Things have focused down to the finale and lacking source material for the later season they have done a decent job.

And it isn't like the books are great literature. Fun and convoluted but Tolkein it ain't.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Okay, but you won't be fined if you stop watching it cause you don't like it anymore.

I get it, it was better before, now it is worse, still 1 episode left. Is it that hard to watch it without having medieval battle veterans talking about military tactics or why the ballistas hit 1 dragon instantly but missed the other with all their shots?

I haven't watched the walking dead but I heard the writing went to shit after a few seasons and everyone stopped watching it because it was shit. Why can't it be the same for this series?

It's obvious, the writers ran out of source material (the books), fecked up massively, and now we have this. It's not good that it has happened but constantly complaining week in week out about an already shot TV show will not change its ending or anything.

This isn't really aimed at you Wumminator but you just happened to quote me giving me a platform for a reply. I don't like the fact that I have to trawl through 10 pages of hate posts to find a theory about what might happen.

This is exactly the thing. It's not their story. They have to finish someone else's story. That's pretty much impossible. They're not George R.R. Martin and they were never going to catch the EXACT same feeling that guy did.

I also doubt it was their decision to only make 6 more episodes. And to be fair, there's no way you can smoothly cram so much stuff into 6 episodes without making it feel rushed.

Also I like Danaerys with bags under her eyes and disheveled hair. She can light me on fire any time.

 

[Redlambs]

Okay, but you won't be fined if you stop watching it cause you don't like it anymore.

I get it, it was better before, now it is worse, still 1 episode left. Is it that hard to watch it without having medieval battle veterans talking about military tactics or why the ballistas hit 1 dragon instantly but missed the other with all their shots?

I haven't watched the walking dead but I heard the writing went to shit after a few seasons and everyone stopped watching it because it was shit. Why can't it be the same for this series?

It's obvious, the writers ran out of source material (the books), fecked up massively, and now we have this. It's not good that it has happened but constantly complaining week in week out about an already shot TV show will not change its ending or anything.

This isn't really aimed at you Wumminator but you just happened to quote me giving me a platform for a reply. I don't like the fact that I have to trawl through 10 pages of hate posts to find a theory about what might happen.

To be honest mate, there's not a whole lot of "hate" posting, that's way blown out of proportion. Most of us seem to have accepted it's not the same show and there's plenty of tongue in cheek stuff.

Of course you get a couple of people taking it way too seriously, but that goes for both extremes

 

[Fully Fledged]

What is Dany's full title after her recent antics?

Queen of The Ashes.

 

[Redlambs]

This is exactly the thing. It's not their story. They have to finish someone else's story. That's pretty much impossible. They're not George R.R. Martin and they were never going to catch the EXACT same feeling that guy did.

I also doubt it was their decision to only make 6 more episodes. And to be fair, there's no way you can smoothly cram so much stuff into 6 episodes without making it feel rushed.

Also I like Danaerys with bags under her eyes and disheveled hair. She can light me on fire any time.

Agreed

 

[Massive Spanner]

To be honest mate, there's not a whole lot of "hate" posting, that's way blown out of proportion. Most of us seem to have accepted it's noy the same sgow and there's plenty of tongue in cheek stuff.

Of course you get a couple of people taking it way too seriously, but that goes for both extremes

It's mostly those defending the show who are taking it too seriously though, which is the funny thing.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Dunno why everyone is acting surprised. It's been foreshadowed that this season wasn't going to be very good since about season 5.

 

[Wibble]

The main faults are Martin's - the bitches be evil/mad - sane men be good thing is down to him. They could have dealt with Danyrs' descent into mad king contry a bit slower given how invested so many viewers seem to be but that is a fairly minor quibble.

 

[Slevs]

To be honest mate, there's not a whole lot of "hate" posting, that's way blown out of proportion. Most of us seem to have accepted it's not the same show and there's plenty of tongue in cheek stuff.

Of course you get a couple of people taking it way too seriously, but that goes for both extremes

I liked your horse theory! Made me spill me coffee!

 

[GhastlyHun]

The main faults are Martin's - the bitches be evil/mad - sane men be good thing is down to him.

What
Have you read anything by Martin?
I'm not saying Daenerys won't turn destroyer in the books, it's possible, but you can be 1000% certain that the reason for it won't be 'bitches be mad'.

 

[2cents]

People can talk about not having source material as a reason for the writers ballsing things up but they left out a hell of a lot of the best source material, or changed it for the worse, too.

This this this. They made a conscious decision to omit a load of interesting stuff and alter a load of other interesting stuff. Post season 4 they deliberately pandered to what they believed were fan expectations, not understanding that it was the show’s defiance of those expectations which made it so intriguing in the first place. The original material they introduced in the first four seasons proves that they can write well when they feel like it, so the only conclusion to be drawn is that they lost interest in the show after season 4.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Dunno why everyone is acting surprised. It's been foreshadowed that this season wasn't going to be very good since about season 5.

The "you want a good girl but you need a bad pussy" line was definitely a prophecy relating to Dany's insanely sudden descent from good girl to bad pussy. Genius writing.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I preferred the show over the books I read honestly (read the first 3).

Now burn me at the stake.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

That's their level. Star Wars movies don't actually have real depth in characters, they are more a rehash of the old movies. These guys write some great cinematic set-pieces but struggle with characters who have depth, so Star Wars falling in the former category should be fine with them.

They're basing it on KOTOR, though aren't they? Imo the characters in that are incredibly rich and probably Disney's best chance at creating a character driven Star Wars trilogy, so you just know that they're going to feck them up.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I preferred the show over the books I read honestly (read the first 3).

Now burn me at the stake.

They're a strange collection for sure. One minute they're incredibly adult themed, filled with beautiful flowing poetry, and the next minute Tyrion is doing front flip handstands off of mantle pieces and Patchface is shouting "ho ho ho, I knoooooowwww!"

 

[RobinLFC]

It's mostly those defending the show who are taking it too seriously though, which is the funny thing.

The other end of the spectrum is equally as annoying - there seem to be people on here and Twitter who have decided that they hate the show now and will nitpick on every single small detail.

I can see why people are annoyed with the show, but basically you just gotta enjoy it for what it currently is and don't hate it for what it is anymore. If they want to go back to the initial intrigues and plotting of the first series, they should just grab the damn books because they're ten times better than what the show currently has to offer.

 

[Oldyella]

This is exactly the thing. It's not their story. They have to finish someone else's story. That's pretty much impossible. They're not George R.R. Martin and they were never going to catch the EXACT same feeling that guy did.

I also doubt it was their decision to only make 6 more episodes. And to be fair, there's no way you can smoothly cram so much stuff into 6 episodes without making it feel rushed.

Also I like Danaerys with bags under her eyes and disheveled hair. She can light me on fire any time.

Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)

 

[KirkDuyt]

Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)

Entertainment people are so fecking precious. Oh boohoohoo it's taken up some of your adult life. That's what a job does. My job has taken up all of my adult life and I never get to ride a dragon or murder a king in the face.

they should be good court jesters and give us our fecking entertainment.



Interesting read that by the way.

 

[2cents]

Interesting thread on the change from grrms plotting to the switch to tv writers.

Also by all accounts hbo were happy for this to get 10 seasons to finish off. D&D wanted it to end as it has(sure some cast are glad too, it's taken up some of their adult lives)

Very interesting, nails the problem really.

 

[Redlambs]

I liked your horse theory! Made me spill me coffee!

That was perhaps the one thing I wasn't joking about

 

[Redlambs]

It's mostly those defending the show who are taking it too seriously though, which is the funny thing.

There'a a touch of delicious irony in people reading a thread they hate telling people to stop watching a show they hate.