Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

So much for a Lannister always paying their debts I suppose. Does Tyrion get Cersei's bill after all this. Season 9 take place in court with the Iron Bank coming to collect?

Dany going insane after seeing the Westeros balance sheets, now that would have been believable.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I genuinely think that the rest of this season, especially the last episode, has made alot of folk go over the deep end with this one. Because the season has been so disappointing, anything other than a totally perfect episode was going to be seen as a failure.

I've already said that I loved it, purely because it's been clear that Dany was always teetering on the edge between ruthlessness and insanity. As someone who has met a few crazies in his life her arc seems familiar, it's just that most people don't have a flying scaly tank at their disposal.

Hell, I even liked Cersei's end. Show Jaime is different from his you know what counterpart so to see them together in their final moments was beautiful. It's funny to see people complain about how Do&D tried to make Cersei seem more human at the end when they've probably also complained about the lack of grey characters who reject the good/evil stereotypes.
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An interesting part of the way people have reacted to this online (though less so here) is the way fan culture impacts on their willingness to shift perspective on a particular character.

A lot of the people I've seen reacting on twitter are very much #teamdany, as in they had previously adopted her as something of a mascot over previous seasons, cheering approvingly as she enacted violent revenge on those who hurt her. That makes it difficult to then accept her switch from protagonist to antagonist, especially as a lot of the things they saw as empowering moments for her before now suddenly look much worse in this new context.

Whereas people reading a book don't tend to nail their colours to the mast of a particular character in the same way, so there's less resistance to the subversive character twist.
 
Redlambs said:
Maybe it was just the tone of the bell resonanted in Targ brains sending them crazy. It would make just as much sense as anything else for people looking for some.

I do get the complaints about how it has been handled this season, but as you say and I was arguing in the early hours this morning, she was clearly always going this way. Perhaps it's why I enjoyed the spectacle and shock of how it happened way more, because I fully expected it.

Especially when Tyrion mentioned the bells for the 100th time in 5 mins :lol:
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:lol: to be honest I was waiting for the bells to somehow break before the armies just marched in and smashed feck out of everyone. The episode was spoiled for me so I knew going into it that there was going to be carnage. I'm glad they went with the insane angle instead though.
 
Redlambs said:
And I still think Bran is the most pointless character ever in anything, even more so than the sandsnakes for sure.

I mean his shit powers aren't even defined, can he see the future or not? If so, what possible reason could he have for not telling Jon? 1 in 14million?
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He can clearly see into the future given they used the exact shot he saw in one of his visions for this episode. He must have seen Drogon burning the city and decided to do and say nothing. In fact, he did the opposite, he started this whole turn of events by telling Sam Jons parentage. He's ultimately the catalyst.
 
sullydnl said:
An interesting part of the way people have reacted to this online (though less so here) is the way fan culture impacts on their willingness to shift perspective on a particular character.

A lot of the people I've seen reacting on twitter are very much #teamdany, as in they had previously adopted her as something of a mascot over previous seasons, cheering approvingly as she enacted violent revenge on those who hurt her. That makes it difficult to then accept her switch from protagonist to antagonist, especially as a lot of the things they saw as empowering moments for her before now suddenly look much worse in this new context.

Whereas people reading a book don't tend to nail their colours to the mast of a particular character in the same way, so there's less resistance to the subversive character twist.
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Top post, would bang 10/10.
 
Redlambs said:
And I still think Bran is the most pointless character ever in anything, even more so than the sandsnakes for sure.

I mean his shit powers aren't even defined, can he see the future or not? If so, what possible reason could he have for not telling Jon? 1 in 14million?
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Yeah he went through the process of becoming omniscient so he could tell jon that is his the true heir to the Iron throne so he could turn dany against him and make her paranoid.
 
Shamana said:
Yeah he went through the process of becoming omniscient so he could tell jon that is his the true heir to the Iron throne so he could turn dany against him and make her paranoid.
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But even then, it still needed Sam to work it out for him. He actually did nothing at all ever to affect the outcome.

If he suddenly has a role in the last ep, we riot.
 
Redlambs said:
But even then, it still needed Sam to work it out for him. He actually did nothing at all ever to affect the outcome.

If he suddenly has a role in the last ep, we riot.
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Well, he needed Sam to tell him that they were married. Therefore Jon wasn't a bastard. But likewise without Bran Sam wouldn't ever have known Jon was their kid.
 
RedSky said:
Well, he needed Sam to tell him that they were married. Therefore Jon wasn't a bastard. But likewise without Bran Sam wouldn't ever have known Jon was their kid.
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And whichever way you look at it, Dany was always going to need fear to rule.

So at very best case scenario, Bran's entire arc was being the other half of fat Sam's amazing double act.
 
Shamana said:
It's still a pretty infantile way to explain her actions. She's literally made it her quest to learn how to rule throughout the series. If westeros doenst love her maybe she should spread the word that she was key in saving the world and if she feels threatened by Jons heritage maybe they should just marry since they are fecking anyway and she needs chilđren to continue her legacy. Her burning the entire city she wants rule and all the civilians after the enemy surrendered is so out of character and non sensical that its comical. Even Joffery the cnut never did something like that.
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Jon doesn't want to marry her, she tried that, she threw herself at him last episode. Jon can't deal with screwing his aunt, Varys was pretty blunt about this in the last couple of episodes. Jon is a northerner, he's not cool with incest.

The point though is she has tried to get past her nature but when shit hits the fan, she is still a Dragon. She can't change that. I'd be stunned if George doesn't go that way too, especially given his "this guy gets it comment". The more pressure she comes under the more she will be a dragon, the more she'll alienate people and she's stuck in a spiral to becoming Aerys.

Infantile, pretty much but Aerys already did the same.

I think behind all the drama and good writing George has two pretty simple typical fantasy stories which are coming out at the end, the hidden reluctant King vs his power hungry relative. And the humans vs the monster they created (by fighting the children of the forest).

Looks like it turns out Asoif is just another fantasy story wrapped in nudity, murder and curse words. Disappointing and I hope I'm wrong but I don't see the books playing out differently (vastly better and making more sense but with the same result).
 
RedSky said:
That same family switched sides in the war and abandoned their word to defend the Tyrells. They pulled a Bolton. They have no honour.
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No they didn't the Tyrells changed side but the Tarlys wouldn't follow them down that path. They swore an oath to their Queen and kept to it.
 
padr81 said:
Jon doesn't want to marry her, she tried that, she threw herself at him last episode. Jon can't deal with screwing his aunt, Varys was pretty blunt about this in the last couple of episodes. Jon is a northerner, he's not cool with incest.

The point though is she has tried to get past her nature but when shit hits the fan, she is still a Dragon. She can't change that. I'd be stunned if George doesn't go that way too, especially given his "this guy gets it comment".

Infantile, pretty much but Aerys already did the same.

I think behind all the drama and good writing George has two pretty simple typical fantasy stories which are coming out at the end, the hidden reluctant King vs his power hungry relative. And the humans vs the monster they created (by fighting the children of the forest).

Looks like it turns out Asoif is just another fantasy story wrapped in nudity, murder and curse words. Disappointing and I hope I'm wrong but I don't see the books playing out differently (vastly better and making more sense but with the same result).
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That is what the series is though.

Oh, and endless descriptions of food. Almost as if it were all written by a fat nerdy bloke who struggled to get laid so much to the point his sister started to look attractive.
 
Redlambs said:
And whichever way you look at it, Dany was always going to need fear to rule.

So at very best case scenario, Bran's entire arc was being the other half of fat Sam's amazing double act.
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She'd have had the North 100% behind her (except Sansa obviously who's a twat now), she'd also have not had Varys being a dumb shit. Jon and Daenerys would also be banging. It'd be a totally different outcome.
 
Daenerys foreshadowing of become another mad Targaryen is clearly there. Even in the show it’s there. She feeds her dragons in front of a slaver she’s never formally met before as an intimidation tactic and the whole time in Essos she’s using violence against much more clear cut evil. She subconsciously probably doesn’t know true mercy and it may be that hereditary Targaryen madness and she probably ended up enjoying deep down.

It’s like Walter Whites confession at the end of Breaking Bad... when he admits “I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it and I felt alive”. Both of those characters are just flexing their bruised ego after their lives of being rockbottom and being nothing.

Jon represents selflessness and Dany represents selfishness. That’s how I interpret it anyway.
 
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Redlambs said:
That is what the series is though.

Oh, and endless descriptions of food. Almost as if it were all written by a fat nerdy bloke who struggled to get laid so much to the point his sister started to look attractive.
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Don't forget nipples on a breastplate.
 
Redlambs said:
And I still think Bran is the most pointless character ever in anything, even more so than the sandsnakes for sure.

I mean his shit powers aren't even defined, can he see the future or not? If so, what possible reason could he have for not telling Jon? 1 in 14million?
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He said he could see the past and the present in different locations. He can't see the future.
 
Fully Fledged said:
No they didn't the Tyrells changed side but the Tarlys wouldn't follow them down that path. They swore an oath to their Queen and kept to it.
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It's precisely the same scenario with the Starks and Boltons. Starks switched sides as well and the Boltons stayed 'loyal' to the Crown rather than the people they swore an oath too. Both Houses were going to get a huge reward too so greed certainly played it's part. Yet the Boltons were villains and the Tarlys seen as honorable. Ahuh.
 
Once again, incredible production, music, effects, acting etc... and completely dogshit writing. I could have enjoyed it a lot more if I wasn't sitting here thinking why a character who had done her best to liberate people the whole series all of a sudden burns an entire city to the ground once she has won. So fecking stupid. GRRM please finish the books so we can enjoy an actual conclusion to this story. I'm starting to think this series was a mistake from the start.
 
RedSky said:
She'd have had the North 100% behind her (except Sansa obviously who's a twat now), she'd also have not had Varys being a dumb shit. Jon and Daenerys would also be banging. It'd be a totally different outcome.
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Except she never had the north behind her. Vary's would have always seen her case of the crazies too, in fact he did.

All the 'big reveal' did was speed up what happened. No way does she take kings landing and end up loved by westeros.
 
DouLou said:
Once again, incredible production, music, effects, acting etc... and completely dogshit writing. I could have enjoyed it a lot more if I wasn't sitting here thinking why a character who had done her best to liberate people the whole series all of a sudden burns an entire city to the ground once she has won. So fecking stupid. GRRM please finish the books so we can enjoy an actual conclusion to this story. I'm starting to think this series was a mistake from the start.
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"When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." - Daenerys, season 2
 
Peyroteo said:
"When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." - Daenerys, season 2
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That was the point when she and the remains of her followers were surviving in the desert right? She was pleading to get into the city and was laughed at so went angry and threatened them? Seems fair enough.
 
Well that was visually impressive, I'll give it that much.

Daft as shit and a ridiculous in so many ways but whatever, it's been like that for a while.

Strong Saving Private Ryan vibes when Arya was walking around the burnt remains.
 
Redlambs said:
Except, didn't he have a vision of the future? One that happened in this very episode?
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He saw a dragon flying over Kings Landing which might not have been this dragon. Still, even if it was it's obvious it was just something momentary rather than omniscient knowledge.

He said he lives in the past and was refered to as the memory of the world.
 
Redlambs said:
Except, didn't he have a vision of the future? One that happened in this very episode?
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It does seem strange what his actual purpose is. Given he knows all this information and I think this Season he mentioned he was "just an observer". Seems odd he then breaks that and tells Jon. I really hope he's up to something dodgy. :(
 
Peyroteo said:
He saw a dragon flying over Kings Landing which might not have been this dragon. Still, even if it was it's obvious it was just something momentary rather than omniscient knowledge.
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Obvious :lol:

Ooookay.


RedSky said:
It does seem strange what his actual purpose is. Given he knows all this information and I think this Season he mentioned he was "just an observer". Seems odd he then breaks that and tells Jon. I really hope he's up to something dodgy. :(
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Unless he ends up as the NK or on the throne, he is a complete waste of space. And even then, either of those scenarios just elevates him to joke level.


It the whole Indiana Jones thing, sure he speeds parts up, but the entire plot still happens without him ;)
 
Fully Fledged said:

Jorah was one of the only people who could make Dany understand that she was going too far. She never seemed to have a conscience to inhibit her worst of her excesses. She just doesn't seem to see that what she plans to do is wrong or going too far.
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Yeah, but she's plannning on executing slave traders. There is a certain justice in that. There is no justice in deliberately burning all the women and children in the city you want to rule, when the enemy has surrendered. It doesn't make any sense what so ever unless your the night king/Hitler, who Dany sacrificed her army to defeat in the previous episodes.
 
RedSky said:
He can clearly see into the future given they used the exact shot he saw in one of his visions for this episode. He must have seen Drogon burning the city and decided to do and say nothing. In fact, he did the opposite, he started this whole turn of events by telling Sam Jons parentage. He's ultimately the catalyst.
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He saw the future but can he change it. We saw with the past 3 eyed raven that he knew how and when he was going to die but seemed as though he was resigned to his fate as if nothing he could do could change it. The same held for Hodor. Bran had changed him in the past but that didn't change the current reality the change had already happened before Bran was born.

It might be way he said to Tyrion that he shouldn't envy him because he knows what's going to happen but can do nothing to change it.
 
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