She's all that matters. His love for her overpowers everything else he is. It's been established since the very first episode and reinforced many times. He tried but, in the end, it was only her. It works for me.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Oh, don't get me wrong mate I'm not denying that D&D royally fecked up the build up and execution to it. But when you read the whole thing it's clear that her nature and impulse is to tear everything down but she's kept in check by her advisors.
Yep, if this season deserves criticism (and it does) then season seven certainly did too, as well as other aspects of previous seasons.
Nothing in this season is as bad as the Dorne plotline from previous years, for example.
A fair assessment would see less criticism for this season, more criticism for previous ones.
Jealousy I think. She doesn't have a legitimate claim to the throne now she knows about Jon & like she unlike in Mereen she didn't win over the people. She's having a crisis.
There's been an abundance of material that foreshadows what we've seen and the points you mention, some of which is more grounded than others, but its there for sure i completely agree.
My criticism, and i think most of the valid non bandwagon criticism, is that firstly the shortening of the seasons, and the total runtime of the show (HBO has said time and time again they were prepared to lengthen the show and money wasnt an object but the screenrunners decided to wrap it up in this manner) has caused a severe pacing problem, which fundamentally alters the dynamic of the show, which was initially all about the character interactions within the rules of the world they established driving the plot and character arcs. This combined with too many characters being left alive/arcs incomplete previously meant that the screenplay is noticeably rushed and incoherent in wrapping up the story as currently constructed, and as a result has left the set pieces retroactively driving the narrative instead of characters driving the plot progressively.
Secondly, the writing and construction of the screenplay, mostly in the last 2 seasons (pretending the dorn plot doesn't exist because yikes) reeks. As i said im completely fine with the story they have decided to tell, im not ok with how lazy they constructed it. Ill just give one example but you can extrapolate it to virtually ANYTHING that has happened in S8. "they need to kill another dragon to even the odds more and build up tension for the kings landing battle and possibly drive the mad qween stuff" ok fine. you can do this in satisfying ways that dont require you to just go with it and ignore logic. Dont have a huge fleet turn up out of nowhere that arent scouted or seen after being told about them at a war council 2 scenes prior and they land 3 shots instantly from behind cover ignoring line of sight with 75% accuracy, then have an entire city of them be 0 threat at all an episode later, thats just dogshit writing. Have the dragon die earlier saving jon from zombie dragon at the courtyard in ep 3 or something that logically follows.
Always knew Greyworm was a cnut. Why didn't Jon kill him?
It reminded me a bit of Anakin in Revenge of the Sith.
Oh and The mountain vs Qyburn
Qyburn is a odd one. He should have fecked off from the start, his character would have never stuck around.
They also make a point of that in the show numerous times over the years, her advisors were key. As they all died, or in Tyrion's case failed iver and over, she ended up with no one to trust and keep her in check.
Yes because the mad king was losing and wanted to blow up all the lannisters and civilians if he couldnt win. All or nothing. Dany had literally won. She had taken out all the enemys key threats to her dragon and her enemies soldiers literally dropped their swords in surrender. Her plan worked, she could have waltzed in and sat on the iron throne. For no good reason what so ever she decides to deliberately burn all the civilians and their homes in king landing alive. She was in a position of truimph and power. Shes worse than hitler
Nah, I meant link me to when the actual scenario happened when Jon didn't kill those that didn't bend the knee. I'm assuming Sam is referring to the Wildlings but as I already said it's a dumb argument.
I don't get why people are so mad at Dany. She just kind of forgot that she wasn't supposed to burn down the entire city.
Really disappointing episode. I really don't like the direction the series went after the great war. It should probably have been the end.
I think Danys 'heel turn' makes no sense at all, especially if you consider where she is coming from and how far she went.
Also it was expectable after the last episode, as expectable as that Arya is going to kill her in the next episode. Why else was she witnessing the slaughter of the innocent for the most part of this episode?
Not worthy of Danys journey imo. Terrible booking.
I think Danys 'heel turn' makes no sense at all, especially if you consider where she is coming from and how far she went.
Also it was expectable after the last episode, as expectable as that Arya is going to kill her in the next episode. Why else was she witnessing the slaughter of the innocent for the most part of this episode?
Not worthy of Danys journey imo. Terrible booking.
Totally agree. They were in some ways always going to struggle to please everyone, rushing the ending has certainly meant a lot of viewers feel short changed though. I too am glad its ending. I don't want this show to get any worse frankly.
I don't disagree mate (Hitler lulz
)My point is merely it was always in her. Obviously the way they portrayed it in the show went from she's on the edge, to full blown evil in minutes which is what the actual problem is. But from the character perspective, we were pretty much told since season 1 she was mentally unstable.
i just realized that Daenerys killed ser pounce, she is worse than Hitler after all
I genuinely think that the rest of this season, especially the last episode, has made alot of folk go over the deep end with this one. Because the season has been so disappointing, anything other than a totally perfect episode was going to be seen as a failure.
I've already said that I loved it, purely because it's been clear that Dany was always teetering on the edge between ruthlessness and insanity. As someone who has met a few crazies in his life her arc seems familiar, it's just that most people don't have a flying scaly tank at their disposal.
Hell, I even liked Cersei's end. Show Jaime is different from his you know what counterpart so to see them together in their final moments was beautiful. It's funny to see people complain about how Do&D tried to make Cersei seem more human at the end when they've probably also complained about the lack of grey characters who reject the good/evil stereotypes.
I think a lot of that is fair. Equally a lot of the criticism is unfair. I see than Dany's actions are compared to the infantile hackery of Lucas in the Star Wars prequels again on this very page and I can't accept that.
Dany tried to do the right thing, becoming increasingly resistant to advice, and lost almost everything that mattered to her by following that path. It is not, for me, inexplicable she just went completely mental, especially given her belief that love failed but fear will not.
Could it have been done better? Sure. It isn't, however, not foreshadowed nor is the groundwork not built up on screen, especially across the last two seasons.
no ser pounce made it out alive, but because Cersei never fed him he collapsed the tunnels under the Red Keep - right? Right?!Yeah I could understand Jaime going back if it was handled better and a more drawn out process, I'm not against the idea that in the end he couldn't shake Cersei, but it all felt so rushed and cobbled together, almost like D&D decided lets have him sleep with Brienne to make everybody think he's getting a happy ending and then 5 minutes later be the stupidest man in Westeros again, I'll be honest I laughed a bit when Tyrion was "How did you get caught?" and he waved the golden hand. Really...
I'd love to get the cast's real feelings on the ending. I can see one of them going on a major rant in a few months when the show is a distant memory
He mightve had the assumption those umpteenmillion scorpions would be more effective after last episode. I know I did..
I think the groundwork was laid for her to be too eye for an eye, too harsh in her punishments and too authoritative, for her to be paranoid about treason. A bit like Stannis perhaps. But I don't see anything to foreshadow her deliberately wiping out women and children.
Fools, the two of you. Don't you know even the very basics of plot-based physics?!
How someone could see her looking dishevelled at the start of the episode, and lusting for blood - any excuse to burn them all - and think she just suddenly decided to be a nasty fecker, is beyond me. At this point I think people are criticising because they've already decided they think the entire season will be shit.
It's a shame because now you have people saying that it's never even been remotely hinted at, but when the writer of the original material actually backs up the theory that she'll go insane and burn King's Landing, there's little to argue about imo.
After he told her about the scorpions being fecked, he left the room.
He'd never have come back.
She knew that she had to rule through fear, and that the people would never love her. For years her brother told her that they would be welcomed into King's Landing with open arms and instead she hears the bells of surrender. She knows that given the chance the people will choose Jon so she needs to show her might. Over the top, yes, but she has a dragon not a sword
So it wasn't madness, but a calculated move?
Ser Pounce was probably thrown off the tower by Cersei for being too weak when Tommen jumped.
Agree with a lot of this.
There are two key problems with this season. One, the fewer-but-longer episode structure is hurting it. Two, the writers are very much writing to an endpoint rather than progressing the story naturally. So instead of x naturally leading to y which in turn leads to z (with each beat being spaced across different episodes) we have the show twisting logic so that it can jump straight from x to z (and have those beats take place across a 30-60min time period in the way they would in a film as opposed to a TV show).
I think the actual broad beats they're hitting are perfectly fine though and rather spectacular at times. Really the season could have done with more of what is sometimes described as "filler episodes" as that would give the key beats a chance to breathe.
For all intents and purposes Aerys was a kind and charming king who wanted to do right by people at first.
Pycelle said on him: He was a good man. Such a charmer. To watch him melt away right before my eyes…consumed by dreams of fire and blood… This mirrors Dany a lot.
There is a great reddit post above. Dany is not "mad" either, like Aerys she is just self entitled and her Targ side is taking over. She doesn't have abolishing slavery to hide her drive for what she really wants or to justify it. I think when the bells sounded, she did what she did to drive home the fact she's gonna rule by fear because Westeros hasn't taken to her like Essos did and her ego can't deal with it. As much to herself as to everyone else. She's embraced her Targ side.
If she can't be the loved queen, she will be the queen by Fire and Blood, but she will be the queen because thats really what she's been obsessed about all along. All her bullshit about breaking the wheel was her justifying to herself what she was going to do to achieve said goals.
Maybe it was just the tone of the bell resonanted in Targ brains sending them crazy. It would make just as much sense as anything else for people looking for some.
I do get the complaints about how it has been handled this season, but as you say and I was arguing in the early hours this morning, she was clearly always going this way. Perhaps it's why I enjoyed the spectacle and shock of how it happened way more, because I fully expected it.
Especially when Tyrion mentioned the bells for the 100th time in 5 mins
Aye, was clear as day they'd go James Bond villain aim and miss all their shots.
Some people are arguing that yes. I refuse to believe she thought murdering at least a third of the population of the city was a good move. Cersei was feared and all it took was blowing up the Sept and she didn't even have a fecking Dragon. If you go back to when the Tarlys were killed you can clearly see most of the Lannister troops were petrified of Drogon. Did she really have to burn the entire city to have everyone fear her? No. All shes done in fact is force Jons hand, which for the record is ridiculous given he's the only real ally she has in Westeros.
He was fighting for the other faction and refused to change sides. It's the Honorable thing to do. You don't take prisoners of war then kill them for not defecting to your side. Not unless you are a tyrant.
Who's arguing it was a calculated move though?
She clearly flipped, the reason for that flip is the debate really. Madness, or nature. Though I'd argue her nature was madness, but there you go
She clearly flipped, the reason for that flip is the debate really. Madness, or nature. Though I'd argue her nature was madness, but there you go
That same family switched sides in the war and abandoned their word to defend the Tyrells. They pulled a Bolton. They have no honour.
Great post that. Sending this to all my Dany loving buddies.
And I still think Bran is the most pointless character ever in anything, even more so than the sandsnakes for sure.
I mean his shit powers aren't even defined, can he see the future or not? If so, what possible reason could he have for not telling Jon? 1 in 14million?
I mean his shit powers aren't even defined, can he see the future or not? If so, what possible reason could he have for not telling Jon? 1 in 14million?
To her, maybe. People that are insane don't usually think they're insane.
Of course, the writers didn't even make mention of it in the behind the scenes so they probably just went "wooOOOooO evilz"
It's still a pretty infantile way to explain her actions. She's literally made it her quest to learn how to rule throughout the series. If westeros doenst love her maybe she should spread the word that she was key in saving the world and if she feels threatened by Jons heritage maybe they should just marry since they are fecking anyway and she needs chilđren to continue her legacy. Her burning the entire city she wants rule and all the civilians after the enemy surrendered is so out of character and non sensical that its comical. Even Joffery the cnut never did something like that.