Yeah you're probably right. Just something about the way he phrased his last words to Brienne before he left left had me thinking he's had enough of her.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Yeah you're probably right. Just something about the way he phrased his last words to Brienne before he left left had me thinking he's had enough of her.
I still think she's lost the baby.
I think it's more a scenario where Jamie realises that he's trying to play house in the North and it's dawned on him that the Northern life simply isn't him. He's always been a character that never hides, he faces problems head on.
Possibly, there's been no real hints at that though. Unless i've missed something obvious which is quite possible as I tend to ignore her scenes nowadays as she only ever seems to smirk.
And she's just playing Euron, Jaime, and Tyrion simultaneously. Typical her.
Her turning down wine helped give the pregnancy away to Tyrion, then she started drinking again this season.
Jamie knew he was dead if he stayed in the North. The balance had tipped in Cersei's favour and Bronn would be back to kill both him and Tyrion.
I think he’s going to go back to Kings Landing and try to fix things from the inside, I think he’s going to find out Cersei’s baby is Euron’s, maybe incorrectly, and he’ll kill her through a combination of jealousy and knowing it’s the right thing for the seven kingdoms.
He's 100% out to kill her. They literally spelt it out in the show
And isn't there a scene at the end of one of the episodes where she bleeds heavily? Qyburn walks in and finds her.
Or am I going mental...
They showed her drinking wine in the first episode of S8 which some have taken as a hint of her not actually being pregnant.
Her refusing a glass of wine was one of the points used at the end of the last season for Tyrion to suspect she was pregnant, so they have some awareness of the effect of alcohol on the baby in the setting
Dude, this show has physically moved Kings Landing away from the ocean (see the intro). I'm not entirely sure I can actually trust what they show us right now.
This is indeed a fair point
I don’t recall this scene - link to a vid of it please?
That was great, thoughts/questions
- Dragon killing scene was v. sad, v.v. sad. I think it would've made a bit more sense though if Urine was like hidden in Dragonstone with his scorpions set up and then when the dragon flys in he lets the scorpion fall out of a box and says something witty like "You fly like a butterfly but I sting like a ... scorpion?"
- Urine is a great villain, really nails the one dimensional psychopath with no redeeming features who can't act role well
- Me Sundae getting killed was emotional but necessary as I think it highlighted how it's important to kill off women in this show before they are allowed to get too happy, the way it should be in all aspects of life
- how comes there's still half the do-tracki and unsillied armies left even though we saw them all getting killed in the last episode? I wonder was Denny holding half of her army back or something, that would make good sense seeing as she was probably like what the feck are my two main armies doing on the front lines here while everyone else sits in the damn castle?
- Dragon killing scene was v. sad, v.v. sad. I think it would've made a bit more sense though if Urine was like hidden in Dragonstone with his scorpions set up and then when the dragon flys in he lets the scorpion fall out of a box and says something witty like "You fly like a butterfly but I sting like a ... scorpion?"
- Urine is a great villain, really nails the one dimensional psychopath with no redeeming features who can't act role well
- Me Sundae getting killed was emotional but necessary as I think it highlighted how it's important to kill off women in this show before they are allowed to get too happy, the way it should be in all aspects of life
- how comes there's still half the do-tracki and unsillied armies left even though we saw them all getting killed in the last episode? I wonder was Denny holding half of her army back or something, that would make good sense seeing as she was probably like what the feck are my two main armies doing on the front lines here while everyone else sits in the damn castle?
I think I might actually prefer that to magical giant crossbows, invisible fleets and nonsensical character arcs.
That last episode was atrocious. I don't get how people are even defending it, that was legitimately just bad television. Emilia Clarke actually managed to act which was surprising, but otherwise from start to finish it was just bad and made zero sense.
The season overall hasn't been as bad as people make out, the first two episodes were somewhat enjoyable if a little fan servicey and slow considering they only have 6 episodes left, the third was great fun with some fantastic directing and music but a pretty poor way to end the white walker arc overall. But this episode in isolation was awful and hopefully it picks up again next week, I don't see what is wrong with saying that.
Hopefully daenerys and her entire team of genius advisers (including a bloke who made it his thing to know everything which was going on) won't 'forget' that Cersei has an army. Oopsie.
Climate change dude.
Given how much Trump likes to quote this show someone should probably bring it up.
every lesson i've ever learnt is from Eboue.
You have much to learn my apprentice.
Did they? Why would he go to kill her anyway? The trigger of him going was Sansa's claim that she will soon executed when Dany wins the war. So he left because he is desperate to kill her instead of someone else? I think eventually Jamie being the one to kill Cersie is a good call but he definitely left because even if he may not love her as before, he is still in some way attached to her and will try to save her one last time by pleading her to surrender.
Nah, I'm talking shit based on something said to me via PM last season
The wine theory is interesting though, but I doubt they've gone that deep. She's just "forgot" she's pregnant!
I didn’t like that either. The 3 times that this has been a topic of conversation (Jon with Sam/Bran, Jon with Dany, Jon with his sisters) it has felt so underwhelming. This is the biggest secret in the 7Kingdoms, literally the reason why all of this is happening and they play it so understated.
Agreed - also I want to see as much of Creepy Bran as possible
I'm still so confused why Missandei got an execution on par with Ned Stark and took up valuable runtime over Sansa & Arya finding out Jon is actually Stark/Targs
He decided to get on the horse the second Sansa told him Cersei and Euron took out half of Danny's fleet with ease and her death might not be as clear cut as Sansa wished.
He then told Brienne that all the bad things he's done is born from an infatuation he's had for Cersei. The only way he can complete his redemption arc truly isn't by being nice to people or fighting against the walkers. It's by killing that infatuation and taking out the roots that made him so bad.
He definately hasn't gone to join hands with Cersei and he knows she can't be talked out of.
The episode was decent. People are expecting a detailed explanation of every damn thing that happens. How did the fleet get there? We want 4 hours of them loading and stocking, a detailed explanation as to the route they took, and an explanation, with blue prints, as to how they crafted the Ballista. It's not as if a fleet has never ambushed another in history. I thought they directed it poorly, and should have shown a delay in the bulk of the fleet appearing from the cover of the islands, but despite the desperation of making out a fleet can obscure itself from another, it's perfectly possible.
It's a silly to expect them to detail everything in every episode. It's a fantasy TV programme with zombies, dragons and magical powers, and you have a problem with them creating a ballista that can kill a dragon? Particularly after we've had several scenes devoted to it in the previous season?
Yawn. This argument is a load of old bollocks though really isn't it. I mean Why not just have Tyrion hide behind a rock, appear back out from it wearing a cape and then fly into the air before burning all of Eurons fleet with his laser eye vision? Eh? It is a fantasy show after all.
People are rightfully calling out stupid shit that seems to be happening on a weekly basis. Still not quite sure why some people are so defensive about it.
It's like just because there's dragons and magic, it can't be well written?
Ideally yes. But it looks like the producers just want it over with. Personally I think the WW should have at a season in the 7 kingdoms instead of just being destroyed in the first battle.
Context? If we had established dwarfs as being capable of flying and shooting laser beams from their eyes then yes, that would be fine. Dragons aren't indestructible; no one has ever told you that. Explain to me why it's so unfathomable that a dragon can be killed by an enormous scorpion designed specifically to kill a dragon? You seem perfectly capable of suspending your disbelief when, say, wildfire - a highly combustible man made substance - was used to blow up half of Kings landing, inexplicably placed there without detection and without accident, but having a weapon with enormous weight and power kill a being we already know can be harmed by mere swords is unbelievable...
Some parts aren't well written. That doesn't mean all of it isn't. Nor does it mean suddenly everything has to be capable and achievable in medieval times, because that's when ASOIAF is loosely based. We've had this sort of thing happen several times, but before it was perfectly acceptable. Explain to me why it's impossible for a dragon to be killed by an enormous ballista, researched and designed specifically to a kill a dragon, after having several scenes of foreshadowing?
There was no line of sight between Euron and Grey Worm. They couldn't see each other until it was too late.
There was eventually a line of sight between Dany and Euron. They could see each other. But because Euron was waiting to ambush and could hear the dragon screeches, he and several other bowmen took the Rhaegon by surprise.
It's like walking past a dark alleyway at night whilst talking out loud on your phone. If there's a mugger with a knife hiding in the alleyway as you pass, there's nothing you can do about it because he's got the jump on you, even if you've got a bigger knife in your pocket.
Dany's characterisation has been gradual and well represented on the show. You must have missed it.
The ending was cinematically problematic in terms of scale. But the steps you've listed are pretty much the only way it could have gone. What more did you expect?
Pretty sure Sansa was saying that Cersei looked more like winning the war after the attack on Dany and her fleet?
that was funnier than it should have beenThe problem is not with the ballistae being capable, in principle, to kill a dragon. It's how they portrayed it, with three laserguided sniper shots taking down the dragon without even a freaking line of sight. There is so much wrong with this it's hard to even break down into points without forgettin something, but I'll try:
-Why are they going by sea, when this is the route where they are the most outnumbered by the presence of a hostile fleet? (Apparently Dany forgot about that, yeah)
-How can Daenerys not spot the hostile fleet from her dragon's back?
-How can the hostile fleet aim perfectly fine at her without being in plain sight?
-How are the ballistae so ridiculously accurate to hit all of their first shots while fired from a permanently swaying boat at sea (and then later on can't hit a barn door when only Drogon is left)?
-Why on earth do they not shoot down Daenerys with their instakill sneak attack?
There is way too much stuff going on in this scene which can only explained with: because the writers need this to happen, so it happens. It's super annoying and breaking the suspension of disbelief to see writers' hand at work with these constant changes between instakills and plot armor.
Seen the point made that Daenerys going straight to KL to attack Cersei makes no sense in general. Like...at this point, all Cersei literally controls is one city. And sure, it might be symbolically nice to hold that city, but Daenerys pretty much controls or has the fealty of every other kingdom. Just set up shop at Harrenhall or Riverrun or something and bleed Cersei dry by forcing her to pay the Golden Company for longer while cutting off her food supplies and shit. Because, again, she literally controls nothing except one city.
I thought that was the plan? They were going to lay siege to KL until people turned on Cersei, with minimum collateral damage. You still need to be around KL to cut off supplies to it though. I don't think she was planning on actually attacking KL until after her dragon was killed.
Well no she clearly didn't forget about it. My take on what he means is that she's grieving, both the loss of a child and her most loyal servant, and she's going a bit loopy. We want realism, then let's stop expecting our characters to make mechanical decision. Emotions does that to the best of us. Its like trying to find reason in why her father went bat shit crazy. There wasn’t logic in it.
No line of sight? You have literally no way of knowing that because they didn't show a line of sight. This is what l mean.
Because it's by far the quickest route. We've already established her haste in getting there. I could be wrong but do they know that the scorpions were mounted to the ships? And not just used to protect KL? I'd be pretty arrogant too going by boat if I had 2 fire breathing dragons in my disposal and all my enemies were neatly huddled together in highly flammable tubs.
At this point you expect no on to ever be caught off guard. And why did you think it's harder to hit an evasive target than one who is caught unawares?
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Eh. Sansa main proclamation was that Cersie would be executed soon and she won't be able to watch it. The first part was to emphasize that Dany was pissed and would want to kill Cersie quick.
I don't think it was. Sansa made a point to say a dragon and a chunk of the army is already out. That far from implies Dany will suddenly take Cersei out quick, or that she had the means to given the Dragons aren't the trump card she thought.
Jaime is not going back to hold hands with cersei, he's going to end the root of everything that makes him a bad person. I thought that was made extremely clear at the scene with Brienne. Unless I'm shit at interpreting it of course
Edit - I just checked the writers do claim that he's gone because he's addicted to Cersei. That has to be one of the shoodiest pieces of writing ever but I'm less than surprised given their standards.
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You're still putting yourself in danger by being there though, as evidenced by what ended up happening. Just send troops to different areas, secure them, and wait it out until Cersei is bereft of supplies and doesn't have enough money to pay her mercenary army who are just sitting around not fighting.
And the logic of starving them all is weird as well. The show is meant to be in a sort of medieval setting - why are pragmatic characters like Tyrion and Varys now suddenly so concerned about peasants dying when they've spent the entire show orchestrating plans which involved poor people getting fecked to further their own motivations? Why's it suddenly more moral and logical to slowly starve people to death instead of taking the city in one go? Daenerys has made compromises: the idea her taking KL by force is somehow a sign of madness is bizarre.
Why are they only talking about the tv series in the book thread. Is that the gang threadbanned in here?