Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Jaime is someone who'll go to any lengths to protect his loved ones, ie, Cersei and the rest of his family. Is he inherently an evil man, like Walder Frey? No. He is a blindly loyal one, and is insanely in love.

He does not live for himself or his pleasures. He has no desire for whores, titles, power, gold, honour or glory. He is young, handsome, rich and is Tywin Lannister's eldest son. Yet he never abuses or even uses those traits. All he wants is Cersei's good, and the Lannisters to thrive. And he would gladly die for the cause.

When he pushed Bran out, he didn't see a child, he saw a potential threat to the one thing he cherished most in this world. How is it evil?

Catelyn Tully put the entire fate of the north at jeopardy by letting Jaime escape, just to protect her loved ones. If she hadn't done that, Robb wouldn't have fallen. She captured Tyrion because she suspected he had tried to kill her boy, without considering the implications. If she hadn't done that, Ned Stark and his men might have been alive. Robert wanted to kill Daenerys and her child just for the heck of it. Sansa lied about the butcher's boy in the first season, and betrayed her father's plans to Cersei. That is evil, not what Jaime did.

And what did he ever do to Ned? Ned comes out of a whorehouse, and tells Jaime he ordered his wife to capture Tyrion. He could have maimed him for that - cut off his limbs but let him live, or something like that. But no, he actually kills the man who sticks his spear into Ned's leg. That's not evil, that's justice if you were looking at it differently.

He knows his sister is evil, he know Joffrey is cruel. And yet he fiercely loves them, for they are his family. Just imagine, if GRRM were to somehow switch Jaime's allegiance from to the Lannisters to the Starks, wouldn't you really love him? Calling him a dick really makes no sense to me.
Big applause. Exactly how I feel about him.

The only thing I disagree is that I doubt he could have killed Ned. In that case, I think that King Robert would have gone to war against Lannisters. And Lannisters wanted Robert dead, but didn't want a war against the king which would have annihilate them.
 
Jaime is someone who'll go to any lengths to protect his loved ones, ie, Cersei and the rest of his family. Is he inherently an evil man, like Walder Frey? No. He is a blindly loyal one, and is insanely in love.

He does not live for himself or his pleasures. He has no desire for whores, titles, power, gold, honour or glory. He is young, handsome, rich and is Tywin Lannister's eldest son. Yet he never abuses or even uses those traits. All he wants is Cersei's good, and the Lannisters to thrive. And he would gladly die for the cause.

When he pushed Bran out, he didn't see a child, he saw a potential threat to the one thing he cherished most in this world. How is it evil?

Catelyn Tully put the entire fate of the north at jeopardy by letting Jaime escape, just to protect her loved ones. If she hadn't done that, Robb wouldn't have fallen. She captured Tyrion because she suspected he had tried to kill her boy, without considering the implications. If she hadn't done that, Ned Stark and his men might have been alive. Robert wanted to kill Daenerys and her child just for the heck of it. Sansa lied about the butcher's boy in the first season, and betrayed her father's plans to Cersei. That is evil, not what Jaime did.

And what did he ever do to Ned? Ned comes out of a whorehouse, and tells Jaime he ordered his wife to capture Tyrion. He could have maimed him for that - cut off his limbs but let him live, or something like that. But no, he actually kills the man who sticks his spear into Ned's leg. That's not evil, that's justice if you were looking at it differently.

He knows his sister is evil, he know Joffrey is cruel. And yet he fiercely loves them, for they are his family. Just imagine, if GRRM were to somehow switch Jaime's allegiance from to the Lannisters to the Starks, wouldn't you really love him? Calling him a dick really makes no sense to me.

Wow, that's some defence! :lol:

This bit made me laugh though: When he pushed Bran out, he didn't see a child, he saw a potential threat to the one thing he cherished most in this world. How is it evil?

How is it evil to try to murder a child by pushing them out of a window? :lol: Jesus.
 
You'll never understand, Carl. He shoved a child out a window so he could bone his sister. He's a misunderstood soul.
 
You'll never understand, Carl. He shoved a child out a window so he could bone his sister. He's a misunderstood soul.

:lol:

:lol:

Jaime is pretty cool though, firmly humbled in the last season.

Aye, I mentioned that before. He redeemed himself a lot in the last season but I won't let that cloud my judgement of how much of a cnut he was before that.
 
I'm not sure you could say Sansa was evil either, given that at the time she was just a horribly naive child.
 
Wow, that's some defence! :lol:

This bit made me laugh though: When he pushed Bran out, he didn't see a child, he saw a potential threat to the one thing he cherished most in this world. How is it evil?

How is it evil to try to murder a child by pushing them out of a window? :lol: Jesus.

Look, no one's trying to say Jaime is a saint. What I'm trying to say is, compared to the rest of the folks, he has ONE single ideal, and he never sways from it. If you are on his side, you can count on him. Always.

You're trying to judge Jaime by holding him up to OUR morals. Tinted glasses, my friend. Jaime doesn't think that way. He doesn't understand things like honour or pity. Like I've said before, all he understands is that he must go to any lengths to protect the things he loves - that is his sole ideal.

Do you think he LIKED pushing Bran out? What's the point of the statement "The things I do for love" ?
 
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I'm not sure you could say Sansa was evil either, given that at the time she was just a horribly naive child.

Okay, agreed.

Sansa was too innocent, 'in love', and was easily swayed by Joffrey and Cersei's lies - GRRM cruelly exploited her weaknesses to the point of evil. She did despicable things, true, but in her own defence, she would never have done them if she knew the consequences. Like you said, the word is 'naive' not 'evil'. I stand corrected.
 
Look, no one's trying to say Jaime is a saint. What I'm trying today is, compared to the rest of the folks, he has ONE single ideal, and he never sways from it. If you are on his side, you can count on him. Always.

You're trying to judge Jaime by holding him up to OUR morals. Tinted glasses, my friend. Jaime doesn't think that way. He doesn't understand things like honour or pity. Like I've said before, all he understands is that he must go to any lengths to protect the things he loves - that is his sole ideal.

Do you think he LIKED pushing Bran out? What's the point of the statement "The things I do for love" ?

I understand the point you're making and I get what you're saying. But you say "how is it evil?" to push a child out of a window and try to murder him. It doesn't matter how you dress it up or try to excuse his actions. That is evil.
 
Jaime is someone who'll go to any lengths to protect his loved ones, ie, Cersei and the rest of his family. Is he inherently an evil man, like Walder Frey? No. He is a blindly loyal one, and is insanely in love.

He does not live for himself or his pleasures. He has no desire for whores, titles, power, gold, honour or glory. He is young, handsome, rich and is Tywin Lannister's eldest son. Yet he never abuses or even uses those traits. All he wants is Cersei's good, and the Lannisters to thrive. And he would gladly die for the cause.

When he pushed Bran out, he didn't see a child, he saw a potential threat to the one thing he cherished most in this world. How is it evil?

Catelyn Tully put the entire fate of the north at jeopardy by letting Jaime escape, just to protect her loved ones. If she hadn't done that, Robb wouldn't have fallen. She captured Tyrion because she suspected he had tried to kill her boy, without considering the implications. If she hadn't done that, Ned Stark and his men might have been alive. Robert wanted to kill Daenerys and her child just for the heck of it. Sansa lied about the butcher's boy in the first season, and betrayed her father's plans to Cersei. That is evil, not what Jaime did.

And what did he ever do to Ned? Ned comes out of a whorehouse, and tells Jaime he ordered his wife to capture Tyrion. He could have maimed him for that - cut off his limbs but let him live, or something like that. But no, he actually kills the man who sticks his spear into Ned's leg. That's not evil, that's justice if you were looking at it differently.

He knows his sister is evil, he know Joffrey is cruel. And yet he fiercely loves them, for they are his family. Just imagine, if GRRM were to somehow switch Jaime's allegiance from to the Lannisters to the Starks, wouldn't you really love him? Calling him a dick really makes no sense to me.


I think the whole killing the guy with the spear thing was more about Jamie being upset that the guy interferred and kept Jamie from being able to cleaning and "fairly" kill Ned in single combat. It should also be pointed out that the whole incident was an ambush set up by Jamie, intended to bring about a fight in which he could kill Ned.

Also, if you follow the story, it was not jsut the kidnapping of Tyrion that sparked the Lannister desire to have Ned killed. Rememeber Ned only became the hand because the previous hand had been murdered. And why was he murdered? Oh yeah because he found out the secret that Joffrey was was not King Roberts son. A secret Ned also found out.

In fact pretty much from early in season 1 it was quite evident that the Lannisters would not mind a chance to kill Ned and even before he got to Kings Landing.

I can't write off his actions as being simply those of someone loyal to his family because he knows as well as anyone exactly what his familty is capable of, and in the world of GRRM pretty much what all the other power hungry families of Westeros are capable of and willingly plays his part. I do not though categorize him in the black and white scale of either being good or evil. But he like most others in this series is a nasty piece of work.

The problem with the Starks is that they act too often out of honor in a world in which their foes do not. They also tend to be a bit naive about the workings of the politics of the rest of the kingdom, perhaps because they spent too much time isolated in the north. They also tend to act without enough thought, which comes back to points one and two.
 
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One thing from watching the series you learn is that you really can't put people in the good v evil categories. Mostly because anyone whose intentions are driven by "good" is not going to last. Also, this is the story about a bunch of people who all want to be King/Queen and only want it for the power it would give them. So not really sure you can place the vast majority of characters in the good or evil camp.
 
Jaime is someone who'll go to any lengths to protect his loved ones, ie, Cersei and the rest of his family. Is he inherently an evil man, like Walder Frey? No. He is a blindly loyal one, and is insanely in love.

He does not live for himself or his pleasures. He has no desire for whores, titles, power, gold, honour or glory. He is young, handsome, rich and is Tywin Lannister's eldest son. Yet he never abuses or even uses those traits. All he wants is Cersei's good, and the Lannisters to thrive. And he would gladly die for the cause.

When he pushed Bran out, he didn't see a child, he saw a potential threat to the one thing he cherished most in this world. How is it evil?

Catelyn Tully put the entire fate of the north at jeopardy by letting Jaime escape, just to protect her loved ones. If she hadn't done that, Robb wouldn't have fallen. She captured Tyrion because she suspected he had tried to kill her boy, without considering the implications. If she hadn't done that, Ned Stark and his men might have been alive. Robert wanted to kill Daenerys and her child just for the heck of it. Sansa lied about the butcher's boy in the first season, and betrayed her father's plans to Cersei. That is evil, not what Jaime did.

And what did he ever do to Ned? Ned comes out of a whorehouse, and tells Jaime he ordered his wife to capture Tyrion. He could have maimed him for that - cut off his limbs but let him live, or something like that. But no, he actually kills the man who sticks his spear into Ned's leg. That's not evil, that's justice if you were looking at it differently.

He knows his sister is evil, he know Joffrey is cruel. And yet he fiercely loves them, for they are his family. Just imagine, if GRRM were to somehow switch Jaime's allegiance from to the Lannisters to the Starks, wouldn't you really love him? Calling him a dick really makes no sense to me.
Throwing a child out of a window is obviously evil, it doesn't matter why he done it.
 
I've tried a few times but find it hard to get into the books after watching the TV series, because I know what's going to happen and all that. Should I just skip the first two books and jump straight to the third?

(I'm asking here because I don't want to enter the book thread and risk spoiling the show for myslef)
 
I've tried a few times but find it hard to get into the books after watching the TV series, because I know what's going to happen and all that. Should I just skip the first two books and jump straight to the third?

(I'm asking here because I don't want to enter the book thread and risk spoiling the show for myslef)

I'll answer it. That's retarded.

Read all the books you dingus.
 
On the Jamie Lanister thing, I started off hating him, pure and utter hatred.

Cocky, Arrogant, Good Looking and Brilliant Fighter (and he knows it) but as the series has developed he's grown to be one of my favourite characters, I don't think you can judge the Jamie from the first episode with the one now, They're completely different people. Also as the series has gone on you've seen what a dominating family the Lanisters are and how effectively Tywin has fecked everyone up.
 
fecking hell, Gandalf's obsession with Jaimie is scary :lol:

But yeah, of course is isn't evil to try to kill a child. He was doing it for all the right reasons of course, his sister needed a good shagging! Oh and all the remorse he showed after was heartbreaking.

;)
 
fecking hell, Gandalf's obsession with Jaimie is scary :lol:

But yeah, of course is isn't evil to try to kill a child. He was doing it for all the right reasons of course, his sister needed a good shagging! Oh and all the remorse he showed after was heartbreaking.

;)

:lol:
 
What was the poor man supposed to do - proceed to shag her in front of a child?

That's sick, so he did the right thing.
 
Just watched the first episode of season one this morning.
Looks like it might be a tad confusing but im loving all the boobies.

I plan to watch 1 per day
 
Yes, and we already told him to stfu in the book thread.

:rolleyes:

Knew it. Almost all the people I know who have a hard on for Jamie are those who have read the books. This deserves a banning. I am going to report his post
 
Just watched the first episode of season one this morning.
Looks like it might be a tad confusing but im loving all the boobies.

I plan to watch 1 per day

If you manage to achieve that then fair play. It'd be like having Kate Upton for a week and only touching her tits once a day.
 
he's new, give him a break, he didn't know. We promptly told him to stop, and he has.

If he has read the books then surely he has reading comprehension; or is "BOOK TALK = BAN + REAL DEATH!!!!" hard to understand?
 
Look, no one's trying to say Jaime is a saint. What I'm trying to say is, compared to the rest of the folks, he has ONE single ideal, and he never sways from it. If you are on his side, you can count on him. Always.

You're trying to judge Jaime by holding him up to OUR morals. Tinted glasses, my friend. Jaime doesn't think that way. He doesn't understand things like honour or pity. Like I've said before, all he understands is that he must go to any lengths to protect the things he loves - that is his sole ideal.

Do you think he LIKED pushing Bran out? What's the point of the statement "The things I do for love" ?

Given the way he delivered it, comic effect? You can't tell me that was even remotely remorseful. It was an audible shrug of the shoulders.
 
Given the way he delivered it, comic effect? You can't tell me that was even remotely remorseful. It was an audible shrug of the shoulders.
It wasn't at all remorseful in the way it was portrayed in the TV show, you're right, but that could just be the way the writers depicted it, on the other hand for all we know in the book it could have been written with a remorseful tone, which is perhaps why Greyhame is taking that side, but I haven't read the book so I can't really comment on that.