Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

RDCR07 said:
Do all Germans whine about this show?:lol:
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We are a joyless people.

The show just lacks the overall badassness of the earlier times. All the characters have been disenchanted and are somewhat boring. All while Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion seem to be invincible. There is no surprise anymore and I feel the recipe for death and survival has been shown too often.
Also, the whole Westeros-throne thing seems kind of boring, when the show spent six seasons telling you it's all about the wall. Show that goddamn wall and get over with this.
 
The imp should be hanged for giving such bad advice. Who needs a frigging empty fortress at the other side of westeros?

Also who came out with this bright idea of doing a reunion in dragonstone? Dorne and the reach should have been protecting each other arses. Instead the snAkes were caught and highgarden had been sacked
 
HTG said:
We are a joyless people.

The show just lacks the overall badassness of the earlier times. All the characters have been disenchanted and are somewhat boring. All while Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion seem to be invincible. There is no surprise anymore and I feel the recipe for death and survival has been shown too often.
Also, the whole Westeros-throne thing seems kind of boring, when the show spent six seasons telling you it's all about the wall. Show that goddamn wall and get over with this.
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How exactly are they invincible? They are losing right now. Did you predict what was going to happen in the 3rd episode? The show never said it was only about the wall. This Westeros scenario is going on for as long as the Wall scenario is going on. Im not saying you shouldnt complain or anything but just dont understand the reasoning behind your complaining.
 
Also another interesting fact that is that IF GRRM has copied scenarios from other real life battles from the past, could the Dany scenario be similar to Hitler who at one point who have just stormed the UK and won the WWII, instead he waited for two months and then attacked by which time Churchill rallied the forces? Did Dany wait too long here?
 
RDCR07 said:
How exactly are they invincible? They are losing right now. Did you predict what was going to happen in the 3rd episode? The show never said it was only about the wall. This Westeros scenario is going on for as long as the Wall scenario is going on. Im not saying you shouldnt complain or anything but just dont understand the reasoning behind your complaining.
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Jon Snow was brought back from the dead and Dany's basically getting rescued from something every third or fourth episode. I just don't think those two can actually die. I can be wrong here, that's just my interpretation. But to me they appear to be outside the laws of the show. I'm not that sure about Tyrion, though.
And I know what you mean when it comes to the throne. Obviously it is important. It's in the title after all. But I think after so many episodes there was enough talk and teasing about the wall and I deserve some action. There have been more than five seasons of constant schemeing, war and more schemeing. Which in itself isn't a bad thing. I enjoyed it a lot. But the real fight will be in winter and winter's been coming for too long. It should be there by now. And the current episodes feel a lot like this. It all feels so long and dragged out.
 
RDCR07 said:
Also another interesting fact that is that IF GRRM has copied scenarios from other real life battles from the past, could the Dany scenario be similar to Hitler who at one point who have just stormed the UK and won the WWII, instead he waited for two months and then attacked by which time Churchill rallied the forces? Did Dany wait too long here?
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Danny biggest mistake was not taking daario with her. It was followed by not courting randyll tarly. God knows how much the targs needs a general right now. Not a talker but a general.
 
HTG said:
Show's getting worse with every season. I swear the scene between Dany and Jon lastet at least 17 hours. I've seen spring come and go and those two were still talking. That wouldn't be bad, but they are not the best actors and the stuff they talk about seems to be completely pointless.
But the worst scenes are those with Cersei. Lena Headey can't act at all. If I have to endure her one more time standing right in front of the camera and keep talking for hours without showing even the slightest believable human emotion, I'll scream at my computer.
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Ok.
 
HTG said:
Jon Snow was brought back from the dead and Dany's basically getting rescued from something every third or fourth episode. I just don't think those two can actually die. I can be wrong here, that's just my interpretation. But to me they appear to be outside the laws of the show. I'm not that sure about Tyrion, though.
And I know what you mean when it comes to the throne. Obviously it is important. It's in the title after all. But I think after so many episodes there was enough talk and teasing about the wall and I deserve some action. There have been more than five seasons of constant schemeing, war and more schemeing. Which in itself isn't a bad thing. I enjoyed it a lot. But the real fight will be in winter and winter's been coming for too long. It should be there by now. And the current episodes feel a lot like this. It all feels so long and dragged out.
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There was so much action on the wall over the seasons. The white walkers fight beyond the wall, the wildlings and Snow climbing the wall, the battle between the crows and the wildlings with that huge axe dangling was brilliant. In fact there has been more action there than in Westeros.

Winter has come. Snow said it himself. Its just the case of the white walkers reaching the wall now. We still have 10 episodes left. Dont want them reaching the wall already, then everyone is doomed.
 
where would bronns loyalties lie? Tyrion always told him that he would offer him more than anyone else to fight for him
 
I think my biggest problem with the show is how small it has gotten.

Previously an army would take a season to march to the next city. Now it takes half an episode for them to march across the map. Jon Snow spent 6 seasons stuck up North. Half an episode later he's sailed thousands of miles. Previously we had to wait many seasons for our favourite characters to meet each other. Now they are meeting each other every 10 minutes.

Seriously, Danny and Snow have met.

Last episode, Danny was talking to old hag, snaky woman and the rest. This episode, they are captured by Cersei

The show was once a sprawling mess of places and characters, each with their own personality. Now the world is small. The characters have learnt fast travel.
 
rcoobc said:
I think my biggest problem with the show is how small it has gotten.

Previously an army would take a season to march to the next city. Now it takes half an episode for them to march across the map. Jon Snow spent 6 seasons stuck up North. Half an episode later he's sailed thousands of miles. Previously we had to wait many seasons for our favourite characters to meet each other. Now they are meeting each other every 10 minutes.

Seriously, Danny and Snow have met.

Last episode, Danny was talking to old hag, snaky woman and the rest. This episode, they are captured by Cersei

The show was once a sprawling mess of places and characters, each with their own personality. Now the world is small. The characters have learnt fast travel.
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I honestly dont get this point of view. I mean there are less characters than before, less storylines, the show is ending. If it takes one season for Snow to travel from Winterfell to Dragonstone, the hell should the show cover during that time? The entire 6 seasons have built up to this point - the fight for the Throne which has well and truly started and the final white walker battle. I dont know what else there is to cover. If its half an episode, it doesnt mean it took him only an hour. That timeline is obviously different. And just because it was the previous episode, doesnt mean it was yesterday in the realm. I mean would you guys be happy if they included "Seventeen days later" or "Three months later..."?
 
HTG said:
Jon Snow was brought back from the dead and Dany's basically getting rescued from something every third or fourth episode. I just don't think those two can actually die. I can be wrong here, that's just my interpretation. But to me they appear to be outside the laws of the show. I'm not that sure about Tyrion, though.
And I know what you mean when it comes to the throne. Obviously it is important. It's in the title after all. But I think after so many episodes there was enough talk and teasing about the wall and I deserve some action. There have been more than five seasons of constant schemeing, war and more schemeing. Which in itself isn't a bad thing. I enjoyed it a lot. But the real fight will be in winter and winter's been coming for too long. It should be there by now. And the current episodes feel a lot like this. It all feels so long and dragged out.
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Some characters (Jon and Dany particularly) have a certain amount of plot armour as them being killed at this point would be absolutely horrendous storytelling. That's the same with any TV show though. There was never any chance of Tony Soprano or Walter White dying three episodes into their shows' final seasons either. It isn't a flaw, it's structure.
 
DatIrishFella said:
Lena Heady, bad actress!? I've heard it all now. :wenger:
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There is some utter bollocks in this thread for sure. Would be good if the people who don't enjoy the show can feck off as it's quite tiresome reading their comments. If you are not enjoying it then stop watching it, simples - as I did after 3/4 seasons of Walking Dead.
 
RDCR07 said:
I honestly dont get this point of view. I mean there are less characters than before, less storylines, the show is ending. If it takes one season for Snow to travel from Winterfell to Dragonstone, the hell should the show cover during that time? The entire 6 seasons have built up to this point - the fight for the Throne which has well and truly started and the final white walker battle. I dont know what else there is to cover. If its half an episode, it doesnt mean it took him only an hour. That timeline is obviously different. And just because it was the previous episode, doesnt mean it was yesterday in the realm. I mean would you guys be happy if they included "Seventeen days later" or "Three months later..." just to keep you happy?
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it's two extremes that he's pointed out and the answer is in the middle - they missed an opportunity to create something visually stunning in the sacking of Casterley Rock and Highgarden

HBO are doing a good job but it feels like a sprint finish
 
rcoobc said:
I think my biggest problem with the show is how small it has gotten.

Previously an army would take a season to march to the next city. Now it takes half an episode for them to march across the map. Jon Snow spent 6 seasons stuck up North. Half an episode later he's sailed thousands of miles. Previously we had to wait many seasons for our favourite characters to meet each other. Now they are meeting each other every 10 minutes.

Seriously, Danny and Snow have met.

Last episode, Danny was talking to old hag, snaky woman and the rest. This episode, they are captured by Cersei

The show was once a sprawling mess of places and characters, each with their own personality. Now the world is small. The characters have learnt fast travel.
Click to expand...
Don't know about that to be honest. I get your point, but maintaining the earlier speed of travel would be too slow. The show wouldn't move forward at all that way.
I think they were right to take their time at the beginning. They introduced the characters well, they introduced the places well and you got a feeling for the struggles and uniqueness of every person and place. But at some time you simply have to cut to the chase. I would actually criticize that they took too long for this.
But on the other hand this way we have the problem that new characters feel somewhat out of place. I honestly have no feelings at all towards Euron for example. Just don't care about the guy.
 
buckooo1978 said:
it's two extremes that he's pointed out and the answer is in the middle - they missed an opportunity to create something visually stunning in the sacking of Casterley Rock and Highgarden

HBO are doing a good job but it feels like a sprint finish
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Or spent the budget on more important visually stunning scenes. Their money isn't infinite, and I'm sure it's no speculation and merely fact to say that they are saving the $ for the end game
 
Stories have a beginning, middle and end. We're now at the end. The characters are all established so there's no need to follow them on their journeys in order to learn about them or see them grow/change as people. Now is the point when push comes to shove. This is a TV show that's meant to be digested as one big story. The mistake people are making is to think of it as 74 little stories. Heck, every fantasy novel I've ever read has upped the pace in the final act.

You always get less deliberation during the endgame of a game of chess. The metaphor has been laid pretty heavily this season. Both the Red Keep and Dragonstone have their own 'chessboards' and they're referenced fairly regularly.
 
buckooo1978 said:
it's two extremes that he's pointed out and the answer is in the middle - they missed an opportunity to create something visually stunning in the sacking of Casterley Rock and Highgarden

HBO are doing a good job but it feels like a sprint finish
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But those two battles werent anything great. No big heads going up against each other. Easy victories for both armies matching against the castles. Except for Danys ships being burned which was a surprise. But there is still two to three big battles to come. I am sure they will more than make up for it in those.
 
RDCR07 said:
I honestly dont get this point of view. I mean there are less characters than before, less storylines, the show is ending. If it takes one season for Snow to travel from Winterfell to Dragonstone, the hell should the show cover during that time? The entire 6 seasons have built up to this point - the fight for the Throne which has well and truly started and the final white walker battle. I dont know what else there is to cover. If its half an episode, it doesnt mean it took him only an hour. That timeline is obviously different. And just because it was the previous episode, doesnt mean it was yesterday in the realm.
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I didn't get it either until this episode. The world is just so small now. It's a different show.

How many interesting people did Snow meet on his way to see Cersei? We don't know. How was he sailing on a boat? Has he ever been on a boat before? We don't know. How did he feel coming to the south for the first time? We don't know. Did anyone try to kill him? We don't know.

How did that Iron Islander bloke track down greyjoy's fleet? We don't know. How are the Doffraky doing? They've crossed the sea for the first time, are their any feelings that they are doing the wrong thing? We don't know.

Where the sand snakes daughters worried about doing this? Did they think it could all end in tears? Did the old hag have any great plan of her own? Was she going to betray blondy?

It's different. The world is smaller
 
sullydnl said:
Some characters (Jon and Dany particularly) have a certain amount of plot armour as them being killed at this point would be absolutely horrendous storytelling. That's the same with any TV show though. There was never any chance of Tony Soprano or Walter White dying three episodes into their shows' final seasons either. It isn't a flaw, it's structure.
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In season 1, Ned was basically the Tony Soprano or Walter White and they simply killed him. That was part of the magic of the show to me.
 
HTG said:
Don't know about that to be honest. I get your point, but maintaining the earlier speed of travel would be too slow. The show wouldn't move forward at all that way.
I think they were right to take their time at the beginning. They introduced the characters well, they introduced the places well and you got a feeling for the struggles and uniqueness of every person and place. But at some time you simply have to cut to the chase. I would actually criticize that they took too long for this.
But on the other hand this way we have the problem that new characters feel somewhat out of place. I honestly have no feelings at all towards Euron for example. Just don't care about the guy.
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Exactly. Is Euron a good guy on the wrong side? Is he a bad guy? We've had rapers and murderers, is he one of them? Why does he even want to be wed to Cersei? Does he have another plan for her?

They still have plenty of time to flesh him out, but right now I don't care about him very much
 
Enjoying it so far, it's moving at a good pace, better than last season.
 
rcoobc said:
Exactly. Is Euron a good guy on the wrong side? Is he a bad guy? We've had rapers and murderers, is he one of them? Why does he even want to be wed to Cersei? Does he have another plan for her?

They still have plenty of time to flesh him out, but right now I don't care about him very much
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I guess it would be more interesting if they would spend more time on the new characters and not as much on Jon Snow or Dany. I feared Ramsay because I knew him. I knew what he was about. I cared about him, even though his death was invitable. I know nothing about Euron. So instead of spending a quarter of the episode on Dany and Jon Snow, they could just introduce the new guys. Speed up the old ones, take your time with the new ones.
 
HTG said:
In season 1, Ned was basically the Tony Soprano or Walter White and they simply killed him. That was part of the magic of the show to me.
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Ned Stark was presented as the show's Tony Soprano but, as we all learned at the end of that season, that was never actually the case. The series as a whole was never going to be built around Ned Stark, they just played with the viewers' expectations based on the story structures we're used to seeing. The Red wedding operated in a similar way.

They can't continue to do that with every single character though. If you keep undermining the structure for shock value you'll never be able to tell a coherent story. Each time you reset the story like that you then have to rebuild the narrative again.

Where we thought Ned was going to be that central figure throughout the series, we actually know Dany and Jon occupy that position as we've seen the series nearly entirely played out at this point, with the central threats that ran throughout the show now coalescing around them. Kiilling off either of them at this point would basically turn the entire seven seasons into a cheap and unsatisfying shaggy dog story, with no real time left for the "reset" show to satisfy the viewers.
 
My favourite exchange was between Varys and Mel.. But I can't remember what was said! Something like when a commoner has taste of power it's like a lion tasting man, they can't get enough..

Obviously it was worded better than that, though.
 
sullydnl said:
Ned Stark was presented as the show's Tony Soprano but, as we all learned at the end of that season, that was never actually the case. The series as a whole was never going to be built around Ned Stark, they just played with the viewers' expectations based on the story structures we're used to seeing. The Red wedding operated in a similar way.

That can't continue with every single character though. If you keep undermining the structure for shock value you'll never be able to tell a coherent story.

Where we thought Ned was going to be that central figure throughout the series, we actually know Dany and Jon occupy that position as we've seen the series nearly entirely played out at this point, with the central threats that ran throughout the show now coalescing around them. Kiilling off either of them at this point would basically turn the entire seven seasons into a cheap and unsatisfying shaggy dog story, with no real time left for the "reset" show to satisfy the viewers.
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I know. I don't demand anyone being killed for the sake of it. But I'd like some subtlety. It's just boring when those two are set on a pedestal that high, far out of reach for death. At least give them some real vulnerablity.
It's the mix of the screentime they get and the obvious importance they have. I know what they are about, I know they are important and I know what they want. There's nothing new about them.
 
HTG said:
Show's getting worse with every season. I swear the scene between Dany and Jon lastet at least 17 hours. I've seen spring come and go and those two were still talking. That wouldn't be bad, but they are not the best actors and the stuff they talk about seems to be completely pointless.
But the worst scenes are those with Cersei. Lena Headey can't act at all. If I have to endure her one more time standing right in front of the camera and keep talking for hours without showing even the slightest believable human emotion, I'll scream at my computer.
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Lol what?
 
So Tyrion's not a wartime consigliere. But Jorah's out and cured just in time to fill that role I reckon.
 
rcoobc said:
I didn't get it either until this episode. The world is just so small now. It's a different show.

How many interesting people did Snow meet on his way to see Cersei? We don't know. How was he sailing on a boat? Has he ever been on a boat before? We don't know. How did he feel coming to the south for the first time? We don't know. Did anyone try to kill him? We don't know.

How did that Iron Islander bloke track down greyjoy's fleet? We don't know. How are the Doffraky doing? They've crossed the sea for the first time, are their any feelings that they are doing the wrong thing? We don't know.

Where the sand snakes daughters worried about doing this? Did they think it could all end in tears? Did the old hag have any great plan of her own? Was she going to betray blondy?

It's different. The world is smaller
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If you paid half as much attention to the show as you are trying to bring it down you would know Jon Snow was on a boat trying to rescue free folk from the army of the dead in Hardhome.

Seriously what are people like you expecting to see on this show ? We are in the final 2 seasons, obviously with all the stuff that is still going to happen the showmakers are not going to dedicate much screen time for seeing how Jon and Davos will travel to dragonstone and what mighty adventures they both will encounter or how Jon had an interesting talk about his nickname the onion knight and how thinking about onions on a boat made him a little seasick.

There are bigger things going on, for the story Jon needed to see Danny at Dragonstone, I love the fact they don't waste time on brining him there and just get on with the important stuff.

We have had our charcater development, we know who Jon Snow is, we know what drives him, we know who Danny is and what drives here and we know who Cersei is and what she wants. We don't need hours of screen time to build up these charcaters in non essential little side stories. It is end game time, the curtain is about the fall and the showmakers are now throwing everything together in the final showdown of game of thrones.

Just enjoy it, no ?
 
devilish said:
The imp should be hanged for giving such bad advice. Who needs a frigging empty fortress at the other side of westeros?

Also who came out with this bright idea of doing a reunion in dragonstone? Dorne and the reach should have been protecting each other arses. Instead the snAkes were caught and highgarden had been sacked
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Yeah he sucks at being the right hand man, he should have just opened a whorehouse somewhere.
 
I thought this was the best episode so far. The ending in particular I loved, even just for the slow 'rains of castamere' score as it reveals the Lannister army moving towards the castle.
 
The red panther said:
If you paid half as much attention to the show as you are trying to bring it down you would know Jon Snow was on a boat trying to rescue free folk from the army of the dead in Hardhome.

Seriously what are people like you expecting to see on this show ? We are in the final 2 seasons, obviously with all the stuff that is still going to happen the showmakers are not going to dedicate much screen time for seeing how Jon and Davos will travel to dragonstone and what mighty adventures they both will encounter or how Jon had an interesting talk about his nickname the onion knight and how thinking about onions on a boat made him a little seasick.

There are bigger things going on, for the story Jon needed to see Danny at Dragonstone, I love the fact they don't waste time on brining him there and just get on with the important stuff.

We have had our charcater development, we know who Jon Snow is, we know what drives him, we know who Danny is and what drives here and we know who Cersei is and what she wants. We don't need hours of screen time to build up these charcaters in non essential little side stories. It is end game time, the curtain is about the fall and the showmakers are now throwing everything together in the final showdown of game of thrones.

Just enjoy it, no ?
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Oh yeah!

I'm just saying, it's a different show. It feels weird. I'm enjoying it, it's just different.

But let's take Jon going to Dragonstone. In the past, to give it some weight, they'd show Jon leaving in Episode 2 and show him arriving in Episode 4. Now, we have so few characters, it's leave the Wall Episode 2, arrive episode 3.

Satnnis Baratheon. They first introduced him in Season 2. He's not a character I've ever loved, but god damn did we find out about him. We met the people he trusts, we met his army, we met his family, his daughter, we learnt his back story. I think like they should have given Euron the same treatment, or at least a part of it.

I accept it's quite a normal thing really; the stories are getting bigger. The main characters are no longer small people trying to survive, they are leaders of huge armies, and it takes a long time to move an army.

But still, it's weird. It's going too fast for me.
 
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