Well there's nothing to see here.
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Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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Howland Reed (Father of Meeran, who is with Bran) knows. He was with Ned at the Tower of Joy.
And Bran knows that Howland knows.
Was just thinking about this. Wasn't there a nurse/maid in that room too? Anyway...not too sure this will be of any importance (famous last words).
Joffrey
Ah good point, wonder if Bran's next move is to go down to the Neck and meet Howland.
Think that's Joffrey, can't be sure though.
George Martin said long ago we would see howland again.
Although thats not a bad thing. It seems to have been built and hinted since pretty much season 2 (even before maybe, before we knew the dragons were there). It really is what everybody wants to see (by everybody, I mean me, at least)...
Agreed on Ghost though :P
Well, the name - Song of Ice & Fire implies its dragons vs white walkers but given the capacity of the show to shock all of the TV viewers (outside the book readers till last season)...also with the Lord of Light's priests lauding Dany, I suppose its inevitable.
Damn, can't believe I forgot that! But what importance is it to Bran/the whole war against the Night King who Jon Son's parents are? Only link I can see is that he rides one of the other puny looking dragons thinking about it.
Dany Storyline:
Seems obvious that there's going to be a showdown between her fleet and Theons Uncles fleet. In current form Dany is simply way too strong and would be able to crush everything in her path so she needs an event that will knock her for six and reduce her numbers. So although she will win this, I can see her taking heavy casualties. Despite the Dragons being able to burn boats easily, they're also in many ways sitting ducks and we all know that the Ironborn are exceptional seamen. So it stands to reason that she may even lose a Dragon at this point (I doubt it, but the possibility is there).
So she'll arrive at Westeros battered and bruised. She might need reinforcing and I think this could be where Littlefinger comes into play. We know he has an alliance with the Tyrells (they both killed Joffrey), so could it be that Dany has to marry Littlefinger to get the troops she'll need to take Kings Landing and the Throne? The only stumbling block in this theory is that the young kid is still Lord of the Vale, so for this to happen he'll have to die. But... it's Littlefinger!
Stark Storyline:
Winter is coming. I've come to the conclusion that Brans been manipulated and Benjen is actually Evil. It explains a few issues really, 1. The timing of his 'rescue', 2. He's dead, never trust the dead, 3. The reason why he's alive, it's not coincidence, this was the plan.
So this has been spoilt to me a bit by people in this thread. But I now understand that the Wall is built on magic, they have mentioned this a few times apparently but it's not sunk in. We already know that the White Walkers have passed through a magical barrier before and that was all because of Bran. So Bran walks through the Wall and again destroys the magical barrier which allows the White Walkers to finally head South. I'll ignore the whole Jon Snow being a Targ bit i'm just looking at the broader picture now.
So the question is, will the North be at the Wall defending it when the Walkers attack, or will they be under prepared and not get in there in time. Whatever happens the story requires the Wall to fall and if you consider your options from a Military point of view you will need to escape and find a solid defensive position. That is not Winterfell. It is the Twins though. This is the place controlled by the Freys, it's built on a River, has bridges as access points and I seem to recall Catelyn saying that no army has ever breached it. It's famous for being a "Helms Deep" if you will. So my theory is that the North will flee to The Twins and we'll have a showdown there. Winterfell is essentially a red herring in terms of long term importance. We've seen the Twins a lot through the seasons and that's going to be the important location for next Season. Also if you think about it again, The Twins is pretty close to Riverrun so again its another reason why we've seen the events unfold at Riverrun this season. As they will be one of the first Southern Armies to help defend The Twins. How is this possible? Their Lord and Commander is currently imprisoned in The Twins, one order by Raven and they'll come running.
Seems obvious that there's going to be a showdown between her fleet and Theons Uncles fleet. In current form Dany is simply way too strong and would be able to crush everything in her path so she needs an event that will knock her for six and reduce her numbers. So although she will win this, I can see her taking heavy casualties. Despite the Dragons being able to burn boats easily, they're also in many ways sitting ducks and we all know that the Ironborn are exceptional seamen. So it stands to reason that she may even lose a Dragon at this point (I doubt it, but the possibility is there).
So she'll arrive at Westeros battered and bruised. She might need reinforcing and I think this could be where Littlefinger comes into play. We know he has an alliance with the Tyrells (they both killed Joffrey), so could it be that Dany has to marry Littlefinger to get the troops she'll need to take Kings Landing and the Throne? The only stumbling block in this theory is that the young kid is still Lord of the Vale, so for this to happen he'll have to die. But... it's Littlefinger!
Stark Storyline:
Winter is coming. I've come to the conclusion that Brans been manipulated and Benjen is actually Evil. It explains a few issues really, 1. The timing of his 'rescue', 2. He's dead, never trust the dead, 3. The reason why he's alive, it's not coincidence, this was the plan.
So this has been spoilt to me a bit by people in this thread. But I now understand that the Wall is built on magic, they have mentioned this a few times apparently but it's not sunk in. We already know that the White Walkers have passed through a magical barrier before and that was all because of Bran. So Bran walks through the Wall and again destroys the magical barrier which allows the White Walkers to finally head South. I'll ignore the whole Jon Snow being a Targ bit i'm just looking at the broader picture now.
So the question is, will the North be at the Wall defending it when the Walkers attack, or will they be under prepared and not get in there in time. Whatever happens the story requires the Wall to fall and if you consider your options from a Military point of view you will need to escape and find a solid defensive position. That is not Winterfell. It is the Twins though. This is the place controlled by the Freys, it's built on a River, has bridges as access points and I seem to recall Catelyn saying that no army has ever breached it. It's famous for being a "Helms Deep" if you will. So my theory is that the North will flee to The Twins and we'll have a showdown there. Winterfell is essentially a red herring in terms of long term importance. We've seen the Twins a lot through the seasons and that's going to be the important location for next Season. Also if you think about it again, The Twins is pretty close to Riverrun so again its another reason why we've seen the events unfold at Riverrun this season. As they will be one of the first Southern Armies to help defend The Twins. How is this possible? Their Lord and Commander is currently imprisoned in The Twins, one order by Raven and they'll come running.
There's a lot of prophecy about the Prince that was Promised. Rhaegar studied them a lot and thought them highly significant. At one point, he thought he might be the one, which is why he took up swordfighting. Danaerys sees a vision of Rhaegar in the House of the Undying, naming his son Aegon and saying
"He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire."
Since Aegon had his skull bashed in by the mountain, it is tempting to think that Rhaegar was on to something, but had identified the wrong son of his.
Maester Aemon believed Danearys is the one, since High Valyrian is gender neutral. But if we assume Rhaegar was on to something by looking at his own direct bloodline so closely, it matters.
It would seem at any rate, that the prince that was promised should be a Targaryen.
. While I agree either the Euron or a massive storm will damage Dany's fleet and army, she will not need Littlefinger. In case you missed it she now has an alluance with Dorne and the Tyrells. It is unlikely Dorne sailed their Army to Essos just to sail it back with Dany. Same with the Tyrells. So there will be reinforcements for her, just might take time to pull them together.
The North could retreat to the Twins assuming whoever is in charge there is willing to play along. But the other problem is that the others can just bypass the Twins and rampage on into the heart of the seven kingdoms leaving the Northmen till later. Rob needed the Twins to get at the Lannister Army not to get south, if he had marched on Kings Landing he never would have had to pass through the Twins.
The North could retreat to the Twins assuming whoever is in charge there is willing to play along. But the other problem is that the others can just bypass the Twins and rampage on into the heart of the seven kingdoms leaving the Northmen till later. Rob needed the Twins to get at the Lannister Army not to get south, if he had marched on Kings Landing he never would have had to pass through the Twins.
The last word you used is book stuff and hasn't been mentioned in the show so is worth removing from your post
Careful, this is book information!
Thanks though but don't know if this is relevant to the TV show any more. The books won't pan out the way the show is going.
Edit: but yes, Ice & Fire all in one package. Stark & Targ.
I just think there's been way too many hints that she'll have to Marry her way to the Throne and given that Littlefinger will do anything to get on the Throne (and has a massive army to help support her) it just seems like the typical Littlefinger move.
I can't remember who said it, but someone (maybe even Walder himself) said that the Freys were only relevant because of Walder himself. Without him the Freys would bend the knee, there's no doubt in my mind that they'd let the North in to help defend The Twins. Again if you look at it from a tactical point of view, you'd be funneling the White Walkers towards Kings Landing where a huge army will most likely be waiting. It gives them a chance because they could in theory surround the White Walkers if they decided to bypass The Twins and head South. It also protects the Western side of Westeros from the White Walkers as the River acts as a second wall pretty much and as far as we know, they don't cross water.
I can't remember who said it, but someone (maybe even Walder himself) said that the Freys were only relevant because of Walder himself. Without him the Freys would bend the knee, there's no doubt in my mind that they'd let the North in to help defend The Twins. Again if you look at it from a tactical point of view, you'd be funneling the White Walkers towards Kings Landing where a huge army will most likely be waiting. It gives them a chance because they could in theory surround the White Walkers if they decided to bypass The Twins and head South. It also protects the Western side of Westeros from the White Walkers as the River acts as a second wall pretty much and as far as we know, they don't cross water.
Haven't followed the thread lately, but did any one point out how Cersei's cousin was basically dragging his body to the candle in the tunnel after one stab and Arya was able to do some Acrobatic stuff after 2 ? If not, can I take the credit ? 
Not Complaining though, the music that accompanied that scene was tremendous. They even managed a small rendition of the GoT theme within it as well.
Not Complaining though, the music that accompanied that scene was tremendous. They even managed a small rendition of the GoT theme within it as well.
Haven't followed the thread lately, but did any one point out how Cersei's cousin was basically dragging his body to the candle in the tunnel after one stab and Arya was able to do some Acrobatic stuff after 2 ? If not, can I take the credit ?
Not Complaining though, the music that accompanied that scene was tremendous. They even managed a small rendition of the GoT theme within it as well.
Not sure why they led him down there anyway. Cersei's idea of a danger wank maybe?
Is that Light of the Seven?
Iconic piece of music I think (or it will be when the series ends). Built the tension stupidly well.
Sorry I can't remember how to do the spoiler tag. But it regarding the latest episode/speculation of you don't want to know don't read.
As far I understand Lyanna is Jon's mother, Lyanna was promised to King Robert? Do we know Jon's father, or could there be a chance that Jon is Roberts child and is in fact next in line to the iron throne? If it works that way.
I remember an early episode where it was rumoured Robert had bastard children, one being the blacksmith who helped arya escape after neds death.
Or am I way off?
As far I understand Lyanna is Jon's mother, Lyanna was promised to King Robert? Do we know Jon's father, or could there be a chance that Jon is Roberts child and is in fact next in line to the iron throne? If it works that way.
I remember an early episode where it was rumoured Robert had bastard children, one being the blacksmith who helped arya escape after neds death.
Or am I way off?
Lyanna tells Ned to protect him and that Robert will kill him if he knows [knows what, she doesn't elaborate].
It can't be Robert's for that alone.
True but that spinal area is just dangerous. It could easily paralyze on from that point down if you hurt your spine. He got drilled with a knife there so it isn't too far fetched that he couldn't walk. Arya on the other hand well that was wonder woman stuff what she did.Haven't followed the thread lately, but did any one point out how Cersei's cousin was basically dragging his body to the candle in the tunnel after one stab and Arya was able to do some Acrobatic stuff after 2 ? If not, can I take the credit ?
Not Complaining though, the music that accompanied that scene was tremendous. They even managed a small rendition of the GoT theme within it as well.
It's typical Game of Thrones imo. Misdirection. The only way the White Walkers can get past the Wall (how I understand it) is for Bran to now walk past it. Once he does that the magical barrier is destroyed and the White Walkers can march on it. Exactly like what happened when the White Walkers killed the 3 eyed crow.
You have a character who is undead. He rescued Bran just as he was about to die and has delivered him to the very point that the White Walkers want him to be. Even encouraged him (I think) to go over. He 'somehow' survived being turned (as far as we know he's the only one to ever do this) and is by sheer coincidence the new 3 eyed ravens uncle... a man who Bran would completely trust. So many coincidences...
Is it not easier to explain that Benjen is actually Evil and wants Bran to walk over the Wall to destroy the Magical Barrier and kill everyone? So he's pretended to be his ally knowing Bran would trust him and do exactly what he wants. It's manipulation.
You have a character who is undead. He rescued Bran just as he was about to die and has delivered him to the very point that the White Walkers want him to be. Even encouraged him (I think) to go over. He 'somehow' survived being turned (as far as we know he's the only one to ever do this) and is by sheer coincidence the new 3 eyed ravens uncle... a man who Bran would completely trust. So many coincidences...
Is it not easier to explain that Benjen is actually Evil and wants Bran to walk over the Wall to destroy the Magical Barrier and kill everyone? So he's pretended to be his ally knowing Bran would trust him and do exactly what he wants. It's manipulation.
Problem being is that Varys has already sealed a deal with the Tryells and Dorne to support Dany, Littlefinger has no role to play in making anything happen. Varys and Tyrion, also know Littlefinger very well and will not let him weasel his way in. He will play his game, but it will be played out in the North I think. I just don't see him being able to get the upper hand with Dany. If he plays any matchmaking role it will be because he seems to be among the few who actually question if Jon Snow is Ned's son or not. So that is the card he will use to play between the North and Dany.
One thing to remember is that the White Walker army will not be a traditional army that needs supply lines, etc. Rivers will not be an especially troublesome aspect for them, they will either freeze them or their undead will simply walk through the water and emerge on the other side. I mean a major battle at the Twins could happen, it might be the way the writers go with the story, but if we just talk about the Twins from a strategic sense, a White Walker invasion will be much different from Robb's. The situations will be different (Robb also had to worry about Tywin's army around Harrenhal, the White Walkers won't.
One thing to remember is that the White Walker army will not be a traditional army that needs supply lines, etc. Rivers will not be an especially troublesome aspect for them, they will either freeze them or their undead will simply walk through the water and emerge on the other side. I mean a major battle at the Twins could happen, it might be the way the writers go with the story, but if we just talk about the Twins from a strategic sense, a White Walker invasion will be much different from Robb's. The situations will be different (Robb also had to worry about Tywin's army around Harrenhal, the White Walkers won't.
Haven't followed the thread lately, but did any one point out how Cersei's cousin was basically dragging his body to the candle in the tunnel after one stab and Arya was able to do some Acrobatic stuff after 2 ? If not, can I take the credit ?
Not Complaining though, the music that accompanied that scene was tremendous. They even managed a small rendition of the GoT theme within it as well.
Different type of wound, and dramatic effect. It is a TV Show afterall, they will do things for effect.
Well, we don't know if they can freeze water. It didn't happen at Hardhome (maybe seawater is the explanation there dunno), so you are assuming two things: 1. They can go underwater, 2. he can freeze the river. If neither were plausible then you can see why The Twins is an important location for the North. I mean the typical zombie types might be ok to go underwater but the white walkers? They've been far more man like than undead like and given they're the Generals they wouldn't want to split their army up and have a sway of undead with no white walker leading them.
If we're looking at the map of Westeros and imagine that the White Walkers army will be a horde (i.e. they wont separate up into smaller armies but will be one giant horde like what happened at Hardhome) then surely they would easily overwhelm the North and head South. At that point they hit the River and they can either go West of the River or East. East leads them eventually to Kings Landing, West leads them to the Lannisters and Riverrun. Whichever direction they take they would go past The Twins.
From a military stand point it seems like the only obvious option for the North to head for. A conventional castle like Winterfell simply won't cut it as there's just too much ground to cover. A building like The Twins however is far smaller in size, larger in scale and easier to defend. If I was an advisor to Jon Snow and the Wall had been breached and the Walkers were heading for Winterfell, i'd tell him to get the hell out and head for The Twins which is by far the best defesnive structure we've seen so far.
As for Littlefinger, could well come a point when desperate times calls for desperate measures. Too much is being played with the whole "I will have to marry to get to the Iron Throne", look at who's left from the great houses? It's either Jamie, Littlefinger or Jon. Those are the options. Jon is simply too predictable, Jamie is certainly an option and then we have Littlefinger. My moneys on Littlefinger, he'll get to the Throne and complete his life long ambition only for something to happen that results in his death. Probably the White Walker horde hitting Kings Landing as Brans vision suggests will happen.
If we're looking at the map of Westeros and imagine that the White Walkers army will be a horde (i.e. they wont separate up into smaller armies but will be one giant horde like what happened at Hardhome) then surely they would easily overwhelm the North and head South. At that point they hit the River and they can either go West of the River or East. East leads them eventually to Kings Landing, West leads them to the Lannisters and Riverrun. Whichever direction they take they would go past The Twins.
From a military stand point it seems like the only obvious option for the North to head for. A conventional castle like Winterfell simply won't cut it as there's just too much ground to cover. A building like The Twins however is far smaller in size, larger in scale and easier to defend. If I was an advisor to Jon Snow and the Wall had been breached and the Walkers were heading for Winterfell, i'd tell him to get the hell out and head for The Twins which is by far the best defesnive structure we've seen so far.
As for Littlefinger, could well come a point when desperate times calls for desperate measures. Too much is being played with the whole "I will have to marry to get to the Iron Throne", look at who's left from the great houses? It's either Jamie, Littlefinger or Jon. Those are the options. Jon is simply too predictable, Jamie is certainly an option and then we have Littlefinger. My moneys on Littlefinger, he'll get to the Throne and complete his life long ambition only for something to happen that results in his death. Probably the White Walker horde hitting Kings Landing as Brans vision suggests will happen.
Last two episodes were superb, Miguel Sapochnik's a fantastic director.
The music from the first scene(s) ...
So great.
So great.
Ending this because we have had this discussion before, you DO NOT need to pass through the Twins to head south into the main part of the 7 kingdoms. The fecking Kings Road does not even pass through the Twins.
I don't think GoT will go down as one of the 'best ever' purely because it's so inconsistent in its quality at times, I mean season one was probably the one consistently great season of the six, but in terms of single, individual episodes I'd be surprised if we ever saw anything on the budget, scale and brilliance again. The last two episodes were ludicrously good.
Why did Cersei hate him, he was fiercely pro-Lannister? Or did he start getting a bit tired of her shenanigans recently? Can't really remember.
He was kicking about with the Small Council and Tommen more often, had kind of abandoned Cersei due to her diminished power.
There is more than 9 months between Lyanna's kidnapping and Jon's birth. So yes.
My prediction going into this episode was that Cersi would die before Jamie could save here in a bit of a call back to Ned's death... Instead, everyone else died and Cersi lived.
This is why I don't engage in speculation chit chat!
This is why I don't engage in speculation chit chat!
This and the score after Arya walks away from Jaqen is just tremendous. Ramin Djawadi deserves an Emmy or something.
Sorry, I thought it was mentioned in the Cersei / Maggy scene and just rewatched it. My bad, edited the post.