Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

AldoRaine18 said:
It doesn't matter if the king was mad or causing wars, he was supposed to guard the king with his life. His father infiltrated the city after deceiving the said king and he in the end slayed him, that too from the back. What a coward, and also a cnut. Coward cnut. I really think we need to lynch him tonight if we want to have any chance of winning.
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As I said we don't know the full story behind Jaime killing the mad king. Until then, I am not going to judge him.

Coward?! He is one of the least coward persons in Westeros. I'll bet that even without his hand he would accept a duel by any Westerosi challenger.
 
The video is not working for me, but I think it is enough. If a man kills the king he was supposed to protect, he is obviously a villain. Add to that it was HIS father who plotted the whole thing, lied about the allegiance and once allowed to enter the city he raped and killed women and men to no end, it is obvious that he was no saint in doing what he did. And throwing a kid from a window? Proper cnut, deserves every bit of punishment he is serving.
 
Don't forget that we only know about Aerys' last days from the reference frame of the people who rebelled against him. It's only assumed that they are telling the truth about him being insane.

as we can see from Cersei, Lannisters in particular have a loose interpretation of what is the truth
 
Today I have learned that the girl who plays Sansa is 17, the guy who plays Joffrey is 20, and the girl who plays Margery is 31.

No wonder she looks so much older then him...
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Today I have learned that the girl who plays Sansa is 17, the guy who plays Joffrey is 20, and the girl who plays Margery is 31.

No wonder she looks so much older then him...
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Joffrey was in one of the first two Dark Knight films. I think it was batman begins. He still had a very punchable face at that age.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
The video is not working for me, but I think it is enough. If a man kills the king he was supposed to protect, he is obviously a villain. Add to that it was HIS father who plotted the whole thing, lied about the allegiance and once allowed to enter the city he raped and killed women and men to no end, it is obvious that he was no saint in doing what he did. And throwing a kid from a window? Proper cnut, deserves every bit of punishment he is serving.
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Okay then. We'll continue the debate if your opinion changes.

He is not a cnut though
 
Revan said:
Only for the people who really deserved that.

Mirri Maz Duur, the big black (forgot his name), her friend and the slavers completely deserved it.

Judging by the standards of their time, and if you have to divide people on good and evil (although that is very unrealistic) she is together with Tyrion and John Snow in the good category for me.
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Shes a power-hungry madwoman. If she was really compassionate she would have stayed with her dothraki people and said feck it to all the conquering stuff.
 
Brosstan said:
Shes a power-hungry madwoman. If she was really compassionate she would have stayed with her dothraki people and said feck it to all the conquering stuff.
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She has to take revenge for her father's death and regain the throne that belongs to her. She is the true heir, not the fecking Baratheons!
 
Revan said:
Slavers who got children from their parents, trained them (only one on four survived) and their last act was to order them to kill an another innocent kid (and give a silver to their slavers not their masters for that) before they graduated. What good persons they were.



The Targaryans who were product of incest were the greatest kings Westeros has ever seen. Joffrey is evil, but his two siblings are kind.

I really don't think that incest has to do anything with it. Some people are just evil and mad (The Clegane brothers for example, or the person who is doing that to Theon, or Theon's father).
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It's implied that various Targaryens being batshit is because of incest. Tyrion says something along the lines of "They say when a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin". I think he says this to Cersei and says she beat the odds. Joffrey -> Batshit incest baby. Tommen and Myrcella -> Remarkably well adjusted incest babies.
 
Scrumpet said:
It's implied that various Targaryens being batshit is because of incest. Tyrion says something along the lines of "They say when a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin". I think he says this to Cersei and says she beat the odds. Joffrey -> Batshit incest baby. Tommen and Myrcella -> Remarkably well adjusted incest babies.
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I think Joffrey is just a spoilt wee shite, and quite sadistic at that. I don't think it has anything to do with being an incest baby.

Hopefully his granda gives him a good spanking.

What about the wizard in the box? That's not going to end well.

Pretty good episode overall, the ball seems to be rolling along at a better pace now that things are starting to come together. Looking forward to the next one.
 
JohnLocke said:
He is supposed to be targaryen, but is a Lannister incest baby.

Actually, was his "father" not a Barathean? Or is that just something I made up.
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Robert is a Baratheon, who are a house that has interbred with the Targaryens in the past. Which is why his claim was the strongest after the rebellion.
 
Drainy said:
Robert is a Baratheon, who are a house that has interbred with the Targaryens in the past. Which is why his claim was the strongest after the rebellion.
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Also because he started the war and killed Prince Rhaeger himself, plus both Eddard and Jon Arryn stepped aside.
 
Jaime is clearly a cnut. He's just a witty, likeable one. He thinks nothing of trying to kill a child, killed a king, shags his sister (people may say it's done plenty in those times but there has been a fair few people mention it in a negative fashion), would have killed his captor (fair enough, you might say), looks down on pretty much everyone, lacks any respect and constantly uses his father to get out of things.

Interesting that if he hadn't tried to escape he'd still have both his hands and would still likely end up back home safe eventually.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
Also because he started the war and killed Prince Rhaeger himself, plus both Eddard and Jon Arryn stepped aside.
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True, it was his rebellion, started by Rhaegar (Aerys' son) running off with Lyanna Stark who was meant to marry him. However, they killed off all the remaining Targaryens (except the ones who took the black, or escaped) to ensure that Robert's claim to the throne was the strongest.

John Arryn or Ned Stark could only have claimed the throne by betraying Robert.
 
Scrumpet said:
It's implied that various Targaryens being batshit is because of incest. Tyrion says something along the lines of "They say when a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin". I think he says this to Cersei and says she beat the odds. Joffrey -> Batshit incest baby. Tommen and Myrcella -> Remarkably well adjusted incest babies.
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Still it didn't imply incest in any way. More like that there is a thin land that separates genius from madness.

Also, the mad king wasn't mad all the time as we learnt from the old Master in the wall. We can try to link it with incest, but until there is some proof of it, I don't accept it.
AldoRaine18 said:
Also because he started the war and killed Prince Rhaeger himself, plus both Eddard and Jon Arryn stepped aside.
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That was the main reason to be fair, but he also had some Targaryan blood from his grandmother.
 
Drainy said:
True, it was his rebellion, started by Rhaegar (Aerys' son) running off with Lyanna Stark who was meant to marry him. However, they killed off all the remaining Targaryens (except the ones who took the black, or escaped) to ensure that Robert's claim to the throne was the strongest.

John Arryn or Ned Stark could only have claimed the throne by betraying Robert.
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To be fair, it was called the Robert's rebellion, but it started at the same time by an alliance of Barathean, Stark, Arryn and Tully (Catelyn's house). It probably had to do more because mad king burned Ned's father and killed Ned's big brother after they protested about Ned's sister being taken by Rhaegar.

Him getting the throne because of the blood it was more an excuse. Ned and Jon Arrow never wanted the throne.
 
Brosstan said:
Yes, some people deserve to rule others just because of their ancestry! How is that morally different from slavery?
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1) It isn't ruling and the slavery the same thing.

2) That is the system there, as it was in medieval in Europe.
 
Revan said:
To be fair, it was called the Robert's rebellion, but it started at the same time by an alliance of Barathean, Stark, Arryn and Tully (Catelyn's house). It probably had to do more because mad king burned Ned's father and killed Ned's big brother after they protested about Ned's sister being taken by Rhaegar.

Him getting the throne because of the blood it was more an excuse. Ned and Jon Arrow never wanted the throne.
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They never had a valid claim to the throne while Robert was alive. There was no reason for the common folk to accept any other King than one with a valid claim to the throne. It would only lead to instability in the realm.

That's why they killed every Targarayen they could get their hands on, including children. It's why he's scared of Danaerys having a son, because he has a much more valid claim to the throne than him.
 
Drainy said:
They never had a valid claim to the throne while Robert was alive. There was no reason for the common folk to accept any other King than one with a valid claim to the throne. It would only lead to instability in the realm.

That's why they killed every Targarayen they could get their hands on, including children. It's why he's scared of Danaerys having a son, because he has a much more valid claim to the throne than him.
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Robert hated Targaryans but he killed only Rhaegar and that in 1 vs 1 duel. It was Lannisters who were neutral during the entire war who killed Targaryans (not that Robert wouldn't do that but by the time he got in King's Landing the job was finished).

He wasn't afraid about her having a son who would have a much more valid claim, but he was afraid of her being married by a Dothraki who has a very large army. Daeneris Targaryan wasn't the problem, but the wife of Khal Drogo certainly was.

Also, after a rebellion, it doesn't matter very much who have the best valid claim. At the end of the day, Targaryans itself were occupiers of Westeros, they went there only 3 centuries ago. But they had dragons and became kings of Westeros. Robert get the throne because he wanted it more than Eddard and Jon. In fact, I think that he even joked with Ned in the first season, saying that if you would have stepped first into the throne, you would have been a better king.
 
Revan said:
Robert hated Targaryans but he killed only Rhaegar and that in 1 vs 1 duel. It was Lannisters who were neutral during the entire war who killed Targaryans (not that Robert wouldn't do that but by the time he got in King's Landing the job was finished).

He wasn't afraid about her having a son who would have a much more valid claim, but he was afraid of her being married by a Dothraki who has a very large army. Daeneris Targaryan wasn't the problem, but the wife of Khal Drogo certainly was.

Also, after a rebellion, it doesn't matter very much who have the best valid claim. At the end of the day, Targaryans itself were occupiers of Westeros, they went there only 3 centuries ago. But they had dragons and became kings of Westeros. Robert get the throne because he wanted it more than Eddard and Jon. In fact, I think that he even joked with Ned in the first season, saying that if you would have stepped first into the throne, you would have been a better king.
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Fair enough if that's your interpretation. I still think it is actually important to the common folk, who are likely very religious and stuck in their ways when it comes to succession. Having a king who has no claim to the throne will only lead to agitation among the common folk and an unstable realm.

The Lannisters were probably already planning to wed Cersei to Robert at that point, in fairness. They were only backing the winners. They aren't stupid and knew what Rhaegar had been doing with Lyanna so probably assumed the wedding was off even if she was alive.
 
Drainy said:
The Lannisters were probably already planning to wed Cersei to Robert at that point, in fairness. They were only backing the winners. They aren't stupid and knew what Rhaegar had been doing with Lyanna so probably assumed the wedding was off even if she was alive.
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Agree for that. Tywin would have liked to marry his girl to the king, regardless of who he was. Lyanna was dead at that point though (if I am not mistaken).
 
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