It's both. The fact that Herrera has to play so deep when Carrick is out adds to the fact that our defense is hampered.
Future planning - Replacing Carrick
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
It's both. The fact that Herrera has to play so deep when Carrick is out adds to the fact that our defense is hampered.
I'd be of the opinion that Gundogan would take over Herrera's position (#8) and move Herrera to Fellaini's position (#10).
not as far fetched as it may seem.
The key strength of Carrick is his vision and passing..not so much his tackles. In fact I used to think he avoids them. But then why should if he can read the game and make solid interceptions. Januzaj has all that. Tackling...he has not had to do that. But he is fast enough.
I would have thought we would then have a Keane/Scholes type partnership with those two.
I was thinking that Di Maria or Mata could occupy that #10 role but Herrera playing there would make our central midfield a lot stronger while also adding a goal threat. If we have goalscoring and or creative wingers then it may work.
I like the sound of that. but I'd want one more in there to, someone like Schniderlin. Leaving our main 4 midfield options as Carrick/Schniderlin/Herrera/Gundogan + Blind (who will get plenty of games at left back) and Fellaini (as a plan B)
That way we never have to see Rooney shoehorned in there either.
I still dream of a good ol fashioned 4-4-2. Two solid midfielders.. a ball winner and a creative player...and two wingers that put the fear of god in teams and two leathel finishers... sure we will be more open.. but if you have solid defence...hey...teams will be more worried about defending than attacking us....
Exactly.....#KeepRooneyOuttaMidfield
#KeepRooneyFellainiMataVanPersieOuttaMidfield
Neither Gundogan or Schneiderlin is at their best playing in the holding role.
He's done it for Southampton a couple of seasons ago and was their best player then as he is now.
Didn't mean any offence.
Definitely agreed about his vision and passing, but his other main strength is his positional play, and his ability to read the play and cover gaps at the back. Januzaj does not strike me as the sort who can play in midfield (other than as an advanced, attacking one) because he is a risk taker, doesn't position himself well and is also quite lightweight.
Make a double Bundesliga swoop for Gundogan and Xhaka.
The former has been discussed several times, and although not a direct Carrick replacement, he can fill the LCM role and kind of mirror the hybrid possession/ creativity oriented threat we have with Herrera at RCM.
Xhaka for me, is one of the very few players who can replace Carrick in the medium and long term (alongwith Saul but he's quite inexperienced ). The biggest influence Carrick has on our team is not his defensive prowess or high productivity. That can be replicated by any number of players. But it's the ability to blend good defensive nous with the positional sense to regain possession and maintain the overall shape of the team, set the rhythm of the game from midfield (like Scholes once did - lower the tempo during long stretches of possession or raise it when countering), and always have a keen eye for positive passes/ intelligent through balls/ well timed long balls; and as a combination that that makes him such an invaluable player. You look at the way Carrick plays and that is almost exactly the cerebral Xabi Alonso school of football. Or Bastian Schweinsteiger (who was Xhaka's comparison according to Ottmar Hitzfeld who has managed them both when they were young - http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/fussball/Wie-der-junge-Schweinsteiger/story/30086950)
Xhaka plays a very similar role for Monchengladbach in a double pivot with Kramer that Lucien Favre uses to dominate opposition midfields. He can effortlessly recycle possession (the ball stays glued to his feet and frequently has 80-100 passes per game as a director from midfield - eg. 100+ passes in 1-0 win vs Wolfsburg and 90+ passes in 3-1 win vs Dortmund), has a very expansive and underrated passing range (can make passes through all levels of the field - eg. He has very similar cross field, long ball and through ball numbers to Carrick), although he does like to tackle - intercepting the ball and regaining possession is a very important part of Xhaka's game just like Carrick, plus he has a nasty demeanor as an on-field leader that can influence his team-mates and is quite strong in the air. Almost everything checks out from a play style and added leadership standpoint.
Stats don't always tell the whole story after watching him play, and tallying the stats to kind of reinforce the initial impression - similarities with Carrick shine through :
eg. vs Sevilla against the likes of Krychowiak, he shows Carrick kind of qualities. Keeps the ball moving like a metronome, good workrate and some key defensive interventions as a result of good positioning, uses the depth of the pitch to his advantage - plays both short and long passes - 110+ passes in total, etc.
Passing
Almost the same number of total passes, forward passes and key passes. Tellingly the passing length is kind of identical too - Carrick likes of shuffle between short passes, or passes back to the defense or incisive defense splitting laser beams and Xhaka can execute those kind of passes all day long).
Intelligent defending
Again very similar numbers. Xhaka has the edge with interceptions highlighting his perceptive style of play, while Carrick has more blocks and clearances.
Now, t be fair, Xhaka still has the odd mental lapse, and can be petulant at times. But that's kind of understandable given his age (22). But a strict disciplinarian like Van Gaal could channel his potential and make a him a more polished and measured player (like he did with Schweinsteiger). Xhaka has shown progression almost every year. From being the youngest player in the 2011 European U-21 Championship for Switzerland that reached the final vs Herrera and Thiago's Spain, to giving to a good account of himself when Basel shocked United in the Champions League. To transferring to Monchengladbach and playing very poorly, but then emerging as Monchengladbach's best player, and one of the best midfielders in Bundesliga overall. That speaks to his adaptability, motivation and application levels. If he keeps improving and shows good progression - when he's entering his prime in 3-4 years, he could very well be one of the top top midfielders in the game and that's the kind of player United should sign.
Apparently Bayern have displayed interest in Xhaka which complicates things. But if we can bring him in alongwith someone like Gundogan, we could have a trio of young, balanced, creative, passing oriented, technically proficient midfielders for the foreseeable future.
The former has been discussed several times, and although not a direct Carrick replacement, he can fill the LCM role and kind of mirror the hybrid possession/ creativity oriented threat we have with Herrera at RCM.
Xhaka for me, is one of the very few players who can replace Carrick in the medium and long term (alongwith Saul but he's quite inexperienced ). The biggest influence Carrick has on our team is not his defensive prowess or high productivity. That can be replicated by any number of players. But it's the ability to blend good defensive nous with the positional sense to regain possession and maintain the overall shape of the team, set the rhythm of the game from midfield (like Scholes once did - lower the tempo during long stretches of possession or raise it when countering), and always have a keen eye for positive passes/ intelligent through balls/ well timed long balls; and as a combination that that makes him such an invaluable player. You look at the way Carrick plays and that is almost exactly the cerebral Xabi Alonso school of football. Or Bastian Schweinsteiger (who was Xhaka's comparison according to Ottmar Hitzfeld who has managed them both when they were young - http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/fussball/Wie-der-junge-Schweinsteiger/story/30086950)
Xhaka plays a very similar role for Monchengladbach in a double pivot with Kramer that Lucien Favre uses to dominate opposition midfields. He can effortlessly recycle possession (the ball stays glued to his feet and frequently has 80-100 passes per game as a director from midfield - eg. 100+ passes in 1-0 win vs Wolfsburg and 90+ passes in 3-1 win vs Dortmund), has a very expansive and underrated passing range (can make passes through all levels of the field - eg. He has very similar cross field, long ball and through ball numbers to Carrick), although he does like to tackle - intercepting the ball and regaining possession is a very important part of Xhaka's game just like Carrick, plus he has a nasty demeanor as an on-field leader that can influence his team-mates and is quite strong in the air. Almost everything checks out from a play style and added leadership standpoint.
Stats don't always tell the whole story after watching him play, and tallying the stats to kind of reinforce the initial impression - similarities with Carrick shine through :
eg. vs Sevilla against the likes of Krychowiak, he shows Carrick kind of qualities. Keeps the ball moving like a metronome, good workrate and some key defensive interventions as a result of good positioning, uses the depth of the pitch to his advantage - plays both short and long passes - 110+ passes in total, etc.
Passing
Almost the same number of total passes, forward passes and key passes. Tellingly the passing length is kind of identical too - Carrick likes of shuffle between short passes, or passes back to the defense or incisive defense splitting laser beams and Xhaka can execute those kind of passes all day long).
Intelligent defending
Again very similar numbers. Xhaka has the edge with interceptions highlighting his perceptive style of play, while Carrick has more blocks and clearances.
Now, t be fair, Xhaka still has the odd mental lapse, and can be petulant at times. But that's kind of understandable given his age (22). But a strict disciplinarian like Van Gaal could channel his potential and make a him a more polished and measured player (like he did with Schweinsteiger). Xhaka has shown progression almost every year. From being the youngest player in the 2011 European U-21 Championship for Switzerland that reached the final vs Herrera and Thiago's Spain, to giving to a good account of himself when Basel shocked United in the Champions League. To transferring to Monchengladbach and playing very poorly, but then emerging as Monchengladbach's best player, and one of the best midfielders in Bundesliga overall. That speaks to his adaptability, motivation and application levels. If he keeps improving and shows good progression - when he's entering his prime in 3-4 years, he could very well be one of the top top midfielders in the game and that's the kind of player United should sign.
Apparently Bayern have displayed interest in Xhaka which complicates things. But if we can bring him in alongwith someone like Gundogan, we could have a trio of young, balanced, creative, passing oriented, technically proficient midfielders for the foreseeable future.
Carrick comes from the word "Carraig" meaning "rock", surely Granit Xhaka will be a suitable successor
I seriously think people are overrating Xhaka
More than likely most people haven't seen much of him and just believe what others hype about him.
Carrick has to be replaced by someone verging on world class. If Madrid go for Pogba, I'd ask about Modric.
So, you reckon everyone who constantly touts names like his regularly watch the Bundesliga, and in particular Borussia Monchengladbach games?
Who are these posters that have touted him without seeing him play ? Furthermore, have those calling him "overrated" and "hyped" seen enough of Xhaka this season in the BuLi to form an educated opinion ? Goes both ways.
Javi Martinez from bayern (while a impossible transfer) would be an upgrade not just a replacement.
Younger, more physicality. In terms of reading the game and playmaking, not yet. That balances it out, a proper replacement, not really an upgrade to me
never took any offence at all.
the key point you make is he seems lightweight... just a thought anyways. looks like van Gaal sees him as attacker..so his thoughts are closer to yours.
How about Axel Witsel ?
Juve seem after him seriously.
Juve seem after him seriously.
He is the next
Is Strootman a #6 or #8?
#8 who can play #6
Quality player but isn't he always injured? Probably why they went after Alonso.
Sounds similar to Schneiderlinn. Imo we need a natural #6 like a Javi Martinez not someone that will be played out of their favoured position even though they may be able to do a good job there.
You don't replace Carrick, he is one of a kind. You find something else.
Primarily he's a crock.
strootman would have been perfect summer of 2013.
15 million, 23 years old, an establish dutch international, and a midfielder(at that time we do not have many!)
injuries has hit him very hard since then. no way we are signing him now.
15 million, 23 years old, an establish dutch international, and a midfielder(at that time we do not have many!)
injuries has hit him very hard since then. no way we are signing him now.
Summer 2016....watch this space
after a full season under his belt then why not.
And probably at a perfect time to replace Carrick
That'll add at least £10 million to his price tag. A full injury-free season adds £10 million more. Kevin Strootman for £40 million, yup.
Or he may well be the next Sneijder.
Sadly with many of the names mentioned on here I have seen little actual game action.
Of those I have seen a little, Scheiderlin and Gundogan stand out.
Yes they both may be a bit more natural 8's but honestly that is where Carrick started as well. Through time he has matured and settled in as our 6. i think either of the other two could do that job for us, and based on our needs I would love to see both here.
Of those I have seen a little, Scheiderlin and Gundogan stand out.
Yes they both may be a bit more natural 8's but honestly that is where Carrick started as well. Through time he has matured and settled in as our 6. i think either of the other two could do that job for us, and based on our needs I would love to see both here.
No, I understood what you meant - he definitely has the technique to play anywhere on the pitch. I just think he'd be wasted the further he is from the front-line. He's deceptively quick, too.
I think we'll need to address this in the summer, none of our other CM's can do what Carrick does and it seems very likely he'll retire at the end of the season.
I still think Gundogan is the best option, he's not the same defensively but on the ball he plays the same probing, threaded passes into the forwards, left or right foot. As I say he's not as defensive, he runs with the ball and is more attacking, but you rarely replace players to a T as we found when Carrick replaced Keane.
If we younger there are good options like Ruben Neves and Leon Goretzka, there's also Julian Weigl but I doubt Dortmund would part with him yet except for crazy money.
I still think Gundogan is the best option, he's not the same defensively but on the ball he plays the same probing, threaded passes into the forwards, left or right foot. As I say he's not as defensive, he runs with the ball and is more attacking, but you rarely replace players to a T as we found when Carrick replaced Keane.
If we younger there are good options like Ruben Neves and Leon Goretzka, there's also Julian Weigl but I doubt Dortmund would part with him yet except for crazy money.