Cedric and Sandro
Fullbacks for the summer
- Thread starter Hellboy
- Start date
The Southampton one? I am wary of anybody who has even visited Southampton.
Fabinho and Sessegnon for me. Then wait for a new right back talent to pop up.
Attack minded ones, please.
Sandro and bring TFM back. I don't think we need to replace Valencia just yet, ideally TFM would be gradually phased in as Valencia is used less and less over the next couple of seasons (assuming TFM looks the part of course)
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The way we play leaves a lot of space open on the right. Valencia already looks tired. Next season he will look worse. And even when he is fully fit he does nothing. For a guy who used to be a winger he gets played through but instead of crossing first time he waits and either smashes it into the shins of the first man or back passes it. He isnt the sole issue but he is the cause of a lot of problems in our attack. And on top of that he is losing his only useful asset his pace. And not too mention when pressed he blasts it up field or puts us under pressure because he doesnt want to use his left foot even though he is actually decent with it. We wont win the title with him at RB next year. We need Fabinho or a specialist RB
I think this is unfair on Valencia. He's been one of our better performers this season and is one of the better fullbacks in the league. He also doesn't blast the ball up the pitch all that often, he's sturdy while not spectacular in possession. Young is far more guilty of this on the other flank.
He can't go on forever of course - fortunately we have a promising young RB in TFM who can be phased in, he's earned a shot. If we sign another established RB we may as well sell him.
I just don't like big squad overhauls in general tbh, we need a CM and LB much more.
I am starting to doubt this to be honest, I really think Tony V and Young are stifling our attacking play. They are both very conservative - instead of attacking and getting forward they are cautious, and countless times they will push forward and then put their foot on the ball and play it inside, rather than attacking the flanks. I actually see Valencia as one of the most nervous players in our team, solid defensively but panics far too much.
We will not win the league until we get fullbacks of the standard of Evra/Neville/Irwin. There is a reason Pep spent £130m on fullbacks last summer, they are key to containing the opposition and unlocking defences by providing width, especially with inverted wingers which are becoming the norm today.
Sandro is a must buy in my opinion, I would like Sessegnon too as I think he is potentially a World class player in 4-5 years. A better alternative to Tony at RB would be good, Ricardo Pereira I really like and is a name I haven't seen mentioned yet.
@MUFC OK I am totally with you on Sandro, however Valencia is far better than any of options at left back.
We all know Valencia's short comings in that his delivery is average at best and he is often not direct enough. Any new signing is going to be a gamble though and I don't think it's one we need to take because Valencia is dependable and we have TFM coming through.
I'm of course not saying we put all our faith in TFM btw. My thinking is this: if we get a new RB we either sell Valencia and have TFM deputise for Fabinho/Meunier etc or sell TFM and have Valencia as back up RB. I don't really like the idea of selling TFM, and I don't really like the idea of him being our only other option at RB of Fabinho (for instance) flops.
We all know Valencia's short comings in that his delivery is average at best and he is often not direct enough. Any new signing is going to be a gamble though and I don't think it's one we need to take because Valencia is dependable and we have TFM coming through.
I'm of course not saying we put all our faith in TFM btw. My thinking is this: if we get a new RB we either sell Valencia and have TFM deputise for Fabinho/Meunier etc or sell TFM and have Valencia as back up RB. I don't really like the idea of selling TFM, and I don't really like the idea of him being our only other option at RB of Fabinho (for instance) flops.
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I like TFM a lot but he's quite gangly for a Right back and perhaps not technically good enough for the top level. I also think Tuanzebe looks a far better prospect at CB. Of course he's still young and could develop into a good versatile squad player (a better John O'Shea) but I don't think TFM will ever be the answer at RB.
That's fair enough, I quite like the look of him and think he at least deserves a crack of the whip which he likely won't get if we splurge on a new RB. I added more to the post you quoted explaining my thinking, also.
A lot of fans are frustrated with Valencia in particular because of the amount of space we have on the right due to Mata etc cutting inside. He fails to utilise it on a lot of occasions. Yes he is consistent which is more than you can say for the LB slot but im not sure well win a title with him at RB. Timbo is a great player. I always thought he would be better as a DM. Unsure he has the attacking qualities for the RB slot. If we are serious about the title we need solid players we can rely on day in day out.
Overhauls are effective. Pep overhauled City while Jose was playing mr nice guy even though we needed the change more. I think he has realised his mistake. A solid LB (Alex Sandro), a reliable CB(Alderweireld), a CDM to cover for Matic is much needed (Fabinho). Fabinho can play RB if needed but I still believe we need a specialist in that area. Coleman was a great player but not sure since his injury. Either way Jose having defenders he can trust will only benefit the attack.
Then fans are frustrated with the wrong person. Valencia has little or no support down his side of the pitch - ‘cutting inside’ would imply Mata receives the ball wide but obviously that is rarely the case. He wanders far too far from the area of the pitch he should be operating in and a lack attacking output down the right can’t therefore be hung on Valencia. Folk are being very unrealistic if they expect the right back to solely provide a creative outlet down the wing, Dani Alves’ and Marcelo’s don’t grow on trees.
As an aside, a CDM to cover for Matic is one of the last things we should be spending money on.
Is there a reason why people keep dropping the “Alex” from “Alex Sandro”?
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but his name is essentially Alexsandro and his paternal/maternal name is Lobo Silva.
So choosing to call him Sandro is like calling Aubamayang “Emerick”.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong but his name is essentially Alexsandro and his paternal/maternal name is Lobo Silva.
So choosing to call him Sandro is like calling Aubamayang “Emerick”.
I can't really help you but there is one important thing with Aubameyang, there is an hyphen between Pierre and Emerick, it's literally one item, his second and third first names are Emiliano and François. So maybe Alex Sandro is also one item but it could also be his first and second first names.
@sam147
TFM's future may well be as a centre back but if he's not gonna get minutes at RB he's definitely not gonna get them at CB any time soon. There are quite a few top CBs now who were bedded into first team football playing a lot of games at full back, Ramos, Chiellini, Caragher, Varane, probably others I'm forgetting.
City did swap both full backs out and it's worked out but I never rated Clichy or Kolarov, and Zabaleta's time had come. Plus Walker was a pretty safe buy compared to bringing in a player from the French league, but that's an aside.
TFM's future may well be as a centre back but if he's not gonna get minutes at RB he's definitely not gonna get them at CB any time soon. There are quite a few top CBs now who were bedded into first team football playing a lot of games at full back, Ramos, Chiellini, Caragher, Varane, probably others I'm forgetting.
City did swap both full backs out and it's worked out but I never rated Clichy or Kolarov, and Zabaleta's time had come. Plus Walker was a pretty safe buy compared to bringing in a player from the French league, but that's an aside.
Isn't it more like calling Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldo?
It might suit us better to play 3-5-2 with the players we have now. I would be looking at speedy wing backs in the summer.
Good point, I guess that's a very good example. @SCP are you able to confirm the correct convention?
If you are meaning Alex Sandro from Juventus as far as I am concerned his full name is Alex Sandro Lobo da Silva, at least from what I know, but other players from Brazil have Alexsandro as you mentioned, like one very well known who played at Fenerbache, who is Alexsandro de Souza.
Keep in mind portuguese from Portugal or Brazil has differences, regarding names in Portugal normally the similar names are Alexandre while in Brazil they use very much Alex,Jefferson,Evellyn, sort of names we don't use here in Portugal.
Regarding Cristiano, he is Cristiano Ronaldo, I call him normally by the first name, but I guess there is a habit of calling people by their second name, maybe sounds cool to call him Ronaldo, who isn't common here in Portugal as it is in Brazil, keep in mind he only was named Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro because his father was a fan of Ronald Reagan
You can confirm that with the Brazilian posters here.
The fact you think buying someone to cover for Matic is the last thing we should spend money on says it all. Have you seen how his performances have dwindled. He will be 30 and clocks the most miles out of anyone on the pitch. A priority should be a LB, a CB and someone that can play in Matic role as well as cover elsewhere like Fabinho.
He had a substantial dip but is now experiencing a rejuvenation - and it’s not because he’s been rested. What point exactly are you trying to make by stating he will be 30 and runs more than anyone else? His age obviously isn’t holding him back because he er... runs more than anyone else. Do you think he is running himself into the ground and fatigue is causing poor form, and that cover will allow for rotation which will allow him to maintain a higher level? Our reigning player of the year, who played Matic’s position last year, has been sat on the bench for most of the season and yet Matic has barely had a minute out. Mourinho is not going to rotate him - so yes, splurging money on cover is a complete and utter waste. If we want to bring in a midfielder, aim for one who will compliment what we already have and brings different qualities to the team, not just a poor imitation of a player we already have.
Buy players to improve the starting eleven. We need a left back, with that I agree wholeheartedly. We also need a right winger far more than we need a right back - Valencia needs to actually be given a chance to perform with a better shape and support around him. We need greater balance in attack and that won’t happen by replacing the right back.
Valencia doesnt need anymore chances to perform with a better shape. He will be a 33 year old RB and as we could see during the Brighton game he didnt even have the energy he usually has to get up and down the pitch. If we want the title we need proper fullbacks and depth. I agree with the need for a RW but I dont see that as being a priority this summer.
The point I am making is him being 30 and running more than anyone else shows his importance. We cant afford to be using him in cup games next season. PL and UCL only. He is crucial to our play and we need to save him rather than run him into the ground and blame him for poor performances. Herrera could give him cover but he isnt as physical or as good defensively. Also his mind seems elsewhere with the court case.
What’s everyone’s thought of Bale being played as a LWB if we go to 3 at the back? Or am I crazy?
The latter
I think our willingness to attack down only one flank has been evident all season, with Mata drifting much further than he did prior to this season (and far too much, I might add) and Matic operating with a more left-sided focus as opposed to the right-of-centre position Herrera tends to adopt. We are drastically unbalanced offensively.
I maintain that it is very unrealistic to expect a full back to cover his entire flank and provide anything effective without the appropriate level of support. There needs to be teammates available to pass to and run off of for a typical full back to function well in attack. Dani Alves could do well for us as we are - he is more aggressive and willing in his third-man running than any other full back I’m aware of, but he is rather unique. Lahm was much more conservative in his passing and movement, a good example of a more conventional player for that position who was top class and would struggle to impact the game offensively were he to be in Valencia’s current place.
Essentially, I am saying that the problem with our play - or lack there of - down the right flank is not a result of limitations on Valencia’s part. When I say he should be given a chance within a more balanced setup, I mean that he has proven himself to be good enough in that role and was a very strong performer last season, while not getting forward as effectively this year. He is still very solid and reliable as an individual and as a part of the unit defensively - he’s not exactly done an Ivanovich. If we bring in a suitable player to occupy the position in front of him, available evidence suggests he would perform proficiently in my opinion. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be wary or that he can’t be upgraded - he is 33 and is relatively cautious in his attacking play in general. However, he is nowhere near as poor as seems to be being made out here and is not in need of immediate replacement relative to other places in the team.
Left back and right wing are of highest priority for me, and though most seem to concur with regards to the other full back position, improving that right attacking spot appears to be of very low importance to many. Who do you see playing there? Who can make that role their own? While it may be true that we have enough attackers overall for the front three/ four places, not one of them is suitable for the right wing and that’s a problem - a much bigger one than potentially lining up with Valencia at right back next season.
With regards to Matic, there’s really no reason to buy in cover. The merits of resting him is an entirely separate discussion, but Mourinho has certainly had the means to rest him throughout the current campaign - Herrera, as discussed, and isn’t Carrick now technically healthy and back training full time(?) - and has not utilised the opportunity to do so. Also, a backup player is never going to give you the same qualities as the starter, to the same level. If Herrera, Pereira and Carrick all leave I would maybe then agree that another capable holding player would be worth buying. But on the cheap. Or promote a young player. It’s not overly important - as you said they would be playing low priority games. We would still have the first choice player and the starting eleven would still be short in other areas. We don’t have unlimited funds so it’s easy prioritising for me.
Kelvin Amian, probably @JPRouve knows more about him.
Nothing special on video, but probably isn't a expensive one, player for the future born in 1998 from Toulouse, already a starter for the under 21's from France, perhaps he can be prepared to grow 1 season with Valencia, must say don't know much about him, at least this 1 isn't overpriced for now.
Only suggesting to look based on the fact Fosu Mensah will not be the player who Mourinho is thinking to right fullback.
Nothing special on video, but probably isn't a expensive one, player for the future born in 1998 from Toulouse, already a starter for the under 21's from France, perhaps he can be prepared to grow 1 season with Valencia, must say don't know much about him, at least this 1 isn't overpriced for now.
Only suggesting to look based on the fact Fosu Mensah will not be the player who Mourinho is thinking to right fullback.
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That bloke Ricardo Pereira who plays for Porto, is he any good?
Good player but already 25, imo not good enough to replace directly Valencia, even if I think he should be in the NT, but he had 2 good seasons for Nice, while having a good season with Porto, would say he wouldn't be better than what you have but probably isn't very expensive.
He's only a year older than Barca's Semedo. If you have to compare the two what would be your assessment?
Only my personal opinion? I think Ricardo is better overall, Semedo isn't very reliable when he has to defend, reason why Valverde plays more with Sergi Roberto.
I don't know much about him but I'm pretty sure that he has been moved to CB in the last months
From a couple of highlight videos I've seen of him, he seems an explosive, powerful dribbler who is very good on the ball, good final delivery (better than Valencia for sure) but again those are highlights...
My question is was he quite underwhelming for Porto, that's why he's on loan at NICE at 25 years of age?
Ok probably similar situation than Fosu Mensah, but I had the impression for the under 21's he plays as fullback, not sure.
No, he was loaned for 2 seasons to Nice because Porto first with Lopetegui and later Nuno Espirito Santo who now manages Wolves, they had Maxi Pereira as first option.
At Nice he was managed by Puel and then Favre, also made some games as left fullback, he probably faced the same situation as Valencia during his carrer, they were wingers who later were turned into fullbacks.
He returned this season, he now starts with Conceição while Maxi is the sub, but Porto are under FFP intervention, don't know if they renewed with him, reason why he probably isn't very expensive.
Actually at the top of my head in Portugal for that position we have Cedric, Semedo, Ricardo Pereira, Cancelo, and for me the one with more potential is Diogo Dalot from 1999, who is playing now for Porto as left fullback, and already starts for the under 21's. Clearly that's one of the positions where we are better.
Different thing is what Mourinho thinks about them.
Going forward at least Cancelo has done well this season. Unlike last season hes played most of the time at right back for Inter. He was a little bit defensively suspect at Valencia and I don't know if thats changed at Inter. But thats likely to be the case with any fullback who attacks well.
I live in Southampton
Sorry.I live in Southampton
Its obvious we need to bring in a top RB and a RW as we produce very little from that side. All the teams know we attack from the left or middle/left and it becomes predictable. Valencia has scored a couple of cracking goals,he has also done a couple of last ditch tackles, but thats the exception. He doesnt do much else. His crossing is woeful and his defending, especially positioning is a problem. He hardly trys to run down the line anymore, prefering to stop and play it back or inside. Obviously age is slowing him down, but we shouldnt go down the Neville route and leave it until the last second to replace. We could try Young there and bring Shaw to the left, but its obvious Mou wont do that. Who to bring in, or do we promote from within is obviously a lottery, but we cant leave it as it is for another season.