Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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Here we go again... we want/need a player. Their club set a fee and we offer four pounds, seven shillings and sixpence plus MUTV free for a year...

I know lots of you out there will go on about budgets and value but if we need the guy and think he'll improve us, well look where fecking about in the past has left us now
 
@KirkDuyt

you never rated VDB right? what do you think of him back under ten hag? is he also system player like De Jong?
 
mitchmouse said:
Here we go again... we want/need a player. Their club set a fee and we offer four pounds, seven shillings and sixpence plus MUTV free for a year...

I know lots of you out there will go on about budgets and value but if we need the guy and think he'll improve us, well look where fecking about in the past has left us now
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I mean it worked with Sancho? Most of the cafe wanted us to pay 108 million and we ended up getting him on a fairly reasonable deal for this day and age.
 
JB08 said:
Fair point with Sneijder but I don’t see the others as being forced out, they seem like normal (albeit sometimes ruthless) transfer business.

De Jong is completely different in that he is seen as a disposable asset and (allegedly) being forced to leave for financial, not footballing, reasons. Hence my concern about his motivation and ability to adapt if he came here.
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They were all forced to leave for various reasons. Isn't it better to be forced out for financial reasons than footballing reasons?

Robben, Sneijder for same reasons, to make way for Ronaldo.
Fabregas, Sanchez - To sign Suarez and Rakitic
Ozil to sign Bale.

They were signed to make money to sign other players and also for footballing reasons. It might be the case with De Jong too.
 
mitchmouse said:
Here we go again... we want/need a player. Their club set a fee and we offer four pounds, seven shillings and sixpence plus MUTV free for a year...

I know lots of you out there will go on about budgets and value but if we need the guy and think he'll improve us, well look where fecking about in the past has left us now
Click to expand...

We managed to get the fee for Sancho down 30m+ by keeping a cool head not caving in to Dortmund's and fans' demands. I'm certain he will be worth the fee in the end but imagine the scrutiny on him if he was the most expensive PL signing of all time?

As for De Jong, rarely have there been a bigger opportunity for us to negotiate a fee heavily down for a player of his quality than in this instance. Everyone and their dog knows that Barca are in desperate need for money. They also already have a ton of options in midfield and want to conclude a few signings in other areas but are depending on sales to do that. We have a big rebuild on our hands and not unlimited funds so we need to make the most of what we got - if that means missing out on FDJ to the oil clubs because we are acting sensible, then so be it.
 
Bebestation said:
@KirkDuyt

you never rated VDB right? what do you think of him back under ten hag? is he also system player like De Jong?
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Haha, no I don't, he is just the latest in the line of Davy Klaassen and Guus Til, a scoring midfielder who is decent at all things, but excels at none of them. You could say Thomas Müller fits this as well with the difference that Müller scores a 7 on all attributes while Donny scores a 6. He's not good enough for the premier league. I think judging players from that Ajax side is difficult anyway. Ziyech for instance was absolutely fantastic for them, but can't really replicate that to the premier league either and he has way more weapons than Donny. Or an even better example, aging Lasse Schöne also did very well, also in the CL against Real and Juve, but went on to completely fail at Genoa (I think?).

Don't take my word for it with Ajax players though, I'm not very tribal, but they're still all cnuts. On the other hand, if I do rate an Ajax player I probably mean it :p
 
BarstoolProphet said:
We managed to get the fee for Sancho down 30m+ by keeping a cool head not caving in to Dortmund's and fans' demands. I'm certain he will be worth the fee in the end but imagine the scrutiny on him if he was the most expensive PL signing of all time?

As for De Jong, rarely have there been a bigger opportunity for us to negotiate a fee heavily down for a player of his quality than in this instance. Everyone and their dog knows that Barca are in desperate need for money. They also already have a ton of options in midfield and want to conclude a few signings in other areas but are depending on sales to do that. We have a big rebuild on our hands and not unlimited funds so we need to make the most of what we got - if that means missing out on FDJ to the oil clubs because we are acting sensible, then so be it.
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The above is fine if we don't blow the deal but as I said, look where we are having not gone full-in for our targets. Plus Sancho took an extra year to get done. Not sure that would work in many cases; we'd lose FdJ as we lost others over the years. And ended up with Maguire...

Barca may be desperate for cash but we are no less desperate for class players
 
KirkDuyt said:
Haha, no I don't, he is just the latest in the line of Davy Klaassen and Guus Til, a scoring midfielder who is decent at all things, but excels at none of them. You could say Thomas Müller fits this as well with the difference that Müller scores a 7 on all attributes while Donny scores a 6. He's not good enough for the premier league. I think judging players from that Ajax side is difficult anyway. Ziyech for instance was absolutely fantastic for them, but can't really replicate that to the premier league either and he has way more weapons than Donny. Or an even better example, aging Lasse Schöne also did very well, also in the CL against Real and Juve, but went on to completely fail at Genoa (I think?).

Don't take my word for it with Ajax players though, I'm not very tribal, but they're still all cnuts. On the other hand, if I do rate an Ajax player I probably mean it :p
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:lol::lol:
 
Berbasbullet said:
I mean it worked with Sancho? Most of the cafe wanted us to pay 108 million and we ended up getting him on a fairly reasonable deal for this day and age.
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but a year late, which meant we had less money this year and look what that got us... Of course we can't break the bank on one player but let's at least be willing to compromise. People are saying barca are desperate for money... well. we are desperate for players
 
mitchmouse said:
but a year late, which meant we had less money this year and look what that got us... Of course we can't break the bank on one player but let's at least be willing to compromise. People are saying barca are desperate for money... well. we are desperate for players
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Course they will compromise, that's what negotiation is, trick is to try and create a deal that suits everyone.
 
Yes Ten Hag knows how to get the best out of him, but for that to happend he also must get a proper signing next to him, as both Fred and Mctom aint gonna work regardless.
 
Gurtej said:
Don’t they have to sell by June to balance books?
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Not sure how much they have to sell, but they’ve sold Coutinho already. Maybe they’ll sell other players like Pjanic or something. Can’t see a big deal like this being done swiftly
 
Really hope we show some openness and take control by doing 2 things:

- Make a clear deadline that if we can't get #1 target over the line by X date that we announce defeat and move onto the next so there is a clear path/ plan with timelines and we don't run around last minute.
- Once that happens, I see no downside to announcing we are no longer pursuing a deal for X due to that team wanting too much money etc to avoid them using us a bargaining chip and I think the fans would appreciate the insight and confidence that they are being strict with a plan.
 
quethenoo said:
Does anyone actually think ETH would back signing him if he for a second thought FDJ wouldn't be fully commited? Seems pretty unlikely to me especially given their history, so if Erik wants him and he's attainanable get it done.
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I think you are mistaking commitment for preference though.

FDJ strikes me as a player who would be fully committed to the club he plays for, but he obviously has a preference on which club that is given how quickly he rose to prominence. Right now we are not in preference but if he came here I don't think he'd be any less committed, especially under ETH and in a big league like the Premier League.

You could argue that he'd be happier and more motivated here than Barcelona because the system would suit him - and if we were to qualify for CL after year 1, we can offer him all he was looking for anyway.

Di Maria I recall didn't want to come, true. But he also was utilised terrible wrongly as well, which I believe was the most significant factor for his unhappiness.
 
Vapor trail said:
That's a good opportunity I've heard from good football circles that he's been one of the best midfielders in la Liga
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Yes, Soler has played very well in recent years. Even this year he has been a starter in the Spanish national team.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
They have gotten rid of the Coutinho problem, Dembele’s contract has now run down, Griezmann is still an issue I guess? I really think they have to sell De Jong and then try to deal with the Griezmann issue by giving him away. Can’t see them getting any fee now. Would Atletico even want him on a free?
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Atletico Madrid has an obligation to buy in the 22-23 season for €40M.
 
Alternatives ?

I see Ruiz name pop up regularly during the transfer window and he gets linked to some pretty great clubs in the process, so why's he still in Naples ?
Priced out of a move maybe ?
 
Apparently Barca got to do some business by end of this month in order to fulfil financial requirements by 1st June…..

Im sure there are, as always, magical accountants methods for getting around these things but the reality is they have to get some players off the payroll before they even think about bringing others in……

Could be a good game of cat and mouse and who blinks first?
 
We hold more cards than Barca do. Tell them it’s 60m or nothing, there’s plenty of midfielders out there.
 
2 man midfield said:
We hold more cards than Barca do. Tell them it’s 60m or nothing, there’s plenty of midfielders out there.
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But what if De Jong is the only CM Hag wants ?

The Caf seems quite set on the fact that we must give Hag everything he wants/needs.
 
JB08 said:
Fair point with Sneijder but I don’t see the others as being forced out, they seem like normal (albeit sometimes ruthless) transfer business.

De Jong is completely different in that he is seen as a disposable asset and (allegedly) being forced to leave for financial, not footballing, reasons. Hence my concern about his motivation and ability to adapt if he came here.
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He achieved nothing at his dream club and is now being rejected by them. He would hopefully feel he has points to prove. He’s an exceptional player really and ETH has shown he knows how to balance a team around him. We would still need to defensively secure, positional disciplined 6 beside him though.
 
FrankDrebin said:
But what if De Jong is the only CM Hag wants ?

The Caf seems quite set on the fact that we must give Hag everything he wants/needs.
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He is likely the DM/CM Ten Hag wants the most, but if he's as meticulous as they say then he would have other target surely.
 
FrankDrebin said:
But what if De Jong is the only CM Hag wants ?

The Caf seems quite set on the fact that we must give Hag everything he wants/needs.
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Ten Hag is not stupid enough to only have one target for CM. And that one wasnt even realistic a couple of weeks ago
 
Still see City swooping in if he does leave Barcelona especially with Fernandinho and Gundogan looking to be on their way.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Great to hear! Tbh, I’d nearly lob in a bid for Pedri at this stage. Need to capitalise on these types of leverage points while they exist.
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Nah, safe to say they won't sell Pedri or Gavi. I think basically everyone else is on the table.
 
Teja said:
Nah, safe to say they won't sell Pedri or Gavi. I think basically everyone else is on the table.
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I mean I think it’s clear that’s their preference and yes it’s unlikely but everyone has their price and there probably won’t ever be a more opportune time to try your luck.
 
Prodigal7 said:
It’s true. Even De Jongs father mentioned it recently as a negative. We are the most supported club in the world and therefore the biggest in the world (not sure the effect this season will have on that), but too European and especially South American players dont like UK (especially Mancunian) weather and find it difficult culturally to adjust.
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Well Dutch climate is similar to UK so he should be well used to it. If it comes down to stuff like weather and culture however then he should stay where he is. We really need to start signing players who are not bothered by that stuff. It should be a signal to steer clear.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
I mean I think it’s clear that’s their preference and yes it’s unlikely but everyone has their price and there probably won’t ever be a more opportune time to try your luck.
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We are rebuilding a squad. We need like 6 new starters (and then backups). Throwing silly money on a Pedri (nothing less than 100mil) is obviously out of the question.
 
mitchmouse said:
The above is fine if we don't blow the deal but as I said, look where we are having not gone full-in for our targets. Plus Sancho took an extra year to get done. Not sure that would work in many cases; we'd lose FdJ as we lost others over the years. And ended up with Maguire...

Barca may be desperate for cash but we are no less desperate for class players
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Yes Sancho took an extra year because we decided not to pay 108 mill - we need to be doing that to not get taken to the cleaners every time. You can't decry the club for not spending money in one breath and then mention Maguire in the next. We have rarely missed out on player due to not paying the asking price. We have mostly missed out on players because of the lack of a recruitment strategy. Who have we missed out on because we weren't willing to pay what was asked?
 
Elcabron said:
Well Dutch climate is similar to UK so he should be well used to it. If it comes down to stuff like weather and culture however then he should stay where he is. We really need to start signing players who are not bothered by that stuff. It should be a signal to steer clear.
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Everyone can have their preference, but again, ultimately if it is the most important factor to him then he simply will not come, because the weather here isn’t a secret. He doesn’t have to come and LIKE the weather, but if he comes anyway in spite of it, then he will just be one of several people in the UK who have decided that the UK is the best place to be for them at the moment, in spite of the weather that they don’t like. Otherwise he wouldn’t come.

And people say things like this but then often turn around and say that they expect him to sign for Munich or Paris. Or even City, with the exact same climate! He may not like the weather, but that shouldn’t be prohibitive to us if it is not prohibitive to him. And if it is then it’s a moot conversation.
 
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