Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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The holy trinity 68 said:
Barca are not as special as they seem to think. They only started to become much more relevant since Ronaldinho signed and then Pep came in. Can't wait for them to fall off into obscurity.
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Haha the state of this opinion! They’ve won so many La Ligas and Copa del Reys dating way back. They’re essentially the Catalan national team and a powerful symbol of antifacist resistance for that region. They also had absolutely legendary players decades before Ronaldinho ffs maybe you’re just young? I don’t see them failing - they’re too important to La Liga and European football, rightly or wrongly. They’ll always find ninja tricks to keep going. Look at their signings this summer for example in spite of their financial issues!
VidaRed said:
Ronaldo (the original one), rivaldo, figo and kluivert were there before ronaldinho, not to mention maradona, romario, cruyff before them.
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Said it better than I could. They’ve always been and will always be legendary.

Admittedly, im a bit biased as I used to live there, but the atmosphere on match days is insane, true club of the people.
 
It is getting ridiculous now... Season start is getting closer and closer and we are sitting on our backsides hoping for this transfer to materialize at one point. A serious club would have lined up replacements by now. Don't know what the club is waiting for, is anyone thinking the world will be impressed because we made the biggest outlay of the transfer window? They don't care, because we only play a minor role. And we might continue to do so as long as we seem to put show value above pragmatism.
 
If frenkies sad he's at the fourth stage of grief, depression, only acceptance left
 
Matt851 said:
The whole point is there is a food chance we won't get fdj. There are also other midfielders available other than tielemens or neves
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Yes, but im going to go out of a limb and assume the people who are happy to wait are only happy on the basis we sign him.
 
NZT-One said:
It is getting ridiculous now... Season start is getting closer and closer and we are sitting on our backsides hoping for this transfer to materialize at one point. A serious club would have lined up replacements by now. Don't know what the club is waiting for, is anyone thinking the world will be impressed because we made the biggest outlay of the transfer window? They don't care, because we only play a minor role. And we might continue to do so as long as we seem to put show value above pragmatism.
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Who’s the replacement you speak of?
 
NZT-One said:
It is getting ridiculous now... Season start is getting closer and closer and we are sitting on our backsides hoping for this transfer to materialize at one point. A serious club would have lined up replacements by now. Don't know what the club is waiting for, is anyone thinking the world will be impressed because we made the biggest outlay of the transfer window? They don't care, because we only play a minor role. And we might continue to do so as long as we seem to put show value above pragmatism.
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Maybe ten Hag is that confident about getting de Jong that he doesn't need any replacement targets?
He probably knows a lot more than we do about the whole transfer
 
Its so frustrating this one. Its not like I dont believe that he is the one we need. But because of some stupid club run so terribly(that is not us, wow Shock) we are just ready to take a big risk. If he is fundamental to how we play, would it not matter that we at least give him some advantage by bringing him as early as we can and slowly build our team? Does pre season not matter at all then? Or is the risk worth taking? Not because I think he is not worth the wait, or that he is not a player worth building the team around, but stuff always happen in football and before you know, he may get injured at Barca pre season, and then what? what if he is out for 2 or 3 months? we just wait for 2 or 3 months or write off the season. Its really insane why we are being so patient, and are ready to work hard anyway on everything else, and are being honorable. What Barca are doing is unbelievable. We should not be like just nice. We should use media, maybe not manager directly, but ask likes of rio evra who are mostly just not very helpful for the club and make them trash barca at every given chance. They dont need to name players, but at least they can all be very candid and make headlines. We are doing nothing and just playing this long boring game, and for what? that this horrible unprofessional club pays their player what they should have paid anyway so he can bugger off to a place that is only trying to move on themselves. this is so sad for any football club to deal with, let alone some body like us who are trying to just get back to an acceptable level of "normalcy"(whatever that means)

On some levels, of course am happy EtH really thinks he is worth waiting for. Sure he could go wrong, bla bla bla, but its still worth knowing the club is fully behind him and he really is intense about what he wants, and this professionalism is showing through his focus and fierceness. and given what we know, I would rather we just as fans just let this go and hope nothing bad happens and he eventually makes it. I still dont think that this would not go badly or that we may not be able to get him. But, how slowly this is moving, is very messed up for a club trying to rebuild, and give its 5th,6th manager after Fergie a proper backing. I naturally am praying Barca get dissolved in next 4 years but despite that, i wish more sporting authorities come out and condemn what they are doing. This is just wrong and world of football is just happy to not talk about it cos its happening to a club that they would love to watch dither and suffer.
 
Aeryis said:
Wdym "FFP in the mud"? They don't have any money issues as they've sold parts of their club to generate revenue. Why would FFP come in for them?
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Pearson-ostrich.jpg
 
AndySmith1990 said:
It's not for United fans to identify a replacement, it's for the club and those employed to handle recruitment to figure it out
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I agree it’s not up to a fan to identify such a thing but given how specific a type of player FdJ I can’t think of a replacement so asked if the poster did?

I take it from your response you’ve not got a clue either so let’s move on. We could sign a myriad of midfielders but no point signing one just for the sake of it.

I’m as frustrated as anyone but fans can’t in one breath demand alternatives [which suggests they can think of one] then go, not my issue. This is the club that bought Maguire & EtH has been in situ a few months, why people expect what we know isn’t possible astounds me but yes continue to complain then excuse yourselves.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Who’s the replacement you speak of?
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I am not a club having a scouting department. From what I know I can tell you what kind of qualities we need in midfield: ball winning capabilities, mobility, energy, ball progressing, aerial prowess. Lets not act as if we are such an awesome team that only freaking FDJ would increase the quality of our midfield. At this point, I'd take McGinn and David Luiz here.
 
Brownie85 said:
Maybe ten Hag is that confident about getting de Jong that he doesn't need any replacement targets?
He probably knows a lot more than we do about the whole transfer
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Even if he is coming in the end, it wouldn't be enough. ETH himself played a sole ball winner type in Alvarez last season, a player who can do that reliably is needed in every system.

It seems, a lot of you guys are very fixated on actual persons than on needed qualities or a fitting skill set. It isn't against FDJ, he is great and he surely can contribute a lot but he won't fix the defensive hole in our midfield all by himself.
 
NZT-One said:
Even if he is coming in the end, it wouldn't be enough. ETH himself played a sole ball winner type in Alvarez last season, a player who can do that reliably is needed in every system.

It seems, a lot of you guys are very fixated on actual persons than on needed qualities or a fitting skill set. It isn't against FDJ, he is great and he surely can contribute a lot but he won't fix the defensive hole in our midfield all by himself.
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He won’t fix that at all, he’s not a DM. He’s a DLP.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Barca are not as special as they seem to think. They only started to become much more relevant since Ronaldinho signed and then Pep came in. Can't wait for them to fall off into obscurity.
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Christ on a bike :wenger: :lol:

Yeah it's not like they had any great players before Ronaldinho, like Maradona, Rivaldo, Romario, Ronaldo, Stoichkov, Pep...
 
Brownie85 said:
Maybe ten Hag is that confident about getting de Jong that he doesn't need any replacement targets?
He probably knows a lot more than we do about the whole transfer
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Besides even if they had alternatives, us fans are unlikely to know -- as illustrated by the transfer of Tyrell Malacia who had less than a 10-day cycle from introduction/links to the closing of the deal.
 
mu4c_20le said:
They got very lucky with a class of academy players. It happens once every few generations.
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No need to go this route, especially when United has benefitted much the same way with an exceptional academy class.

Looking at this Frenkie is sad stuff, I'm reminded of the Messi saga. It's playing out similarly and has a lot of the same variables. Except FDJ means nothing to the club and should have been gone yesterday. I'm feeling optimistic this might just happened this window.
 
NZT-One said:
It is getting ridiculous now... Season start is getting closer and closer and we are sitting on our backsides hoping for this transfer to materialize at one point. A serious club would have lined up replacements by now. Don't know what the club is waiting for, is anyone thinking the world will be impressed because we made the biggest outlay of the transfer window? They don't care, because we only play a minor role. And we might continue to do so as long as we seem to put show value above pragmatism.
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So much despair based on so few facts.
 
Mockney said:
They were quite clearly a famous an beloved club before that. I had a Barca shirt from the Romario and Stoichkov era when I was a kid… but they werent as successful, no. Which itself should actually help rubbish the weird claim that they need to be constantly competing for the League & CL in order to remain relevant. As they weren’t doing that even with the likes of Maradona & Fat Ronaldo playing for them.
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Don’t forget Rivaldo
 
NZT-One said:
I am not a club having a scouting department. From what I know I can tell you what kind of qualities we need in midfield: ball winning capabilities, mobility, energy, ball progressing, aerial prowess. Lets not act as if we are such an awesome team that only freaking FDJ would increase the quality of our midfield. At this point, I'd take McGinn and David Luiz here.
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So if you’re not a club with a scoring department why are you making statements such as. . .
NZT-One said:
It is getting ridiculous now... Season start is getting closer and closer and we are sitting on our backsides hoping for this transfer to materialize at one point. A serious club would have lined up replacements by now.
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I’m not asking you to go into the club & sign players. You’re a fan so I take it you’ve seen players at other clubs that you like & that you think would improve the team? Or was the above statement just fanciful.

If you’ve come to the conclusion we need players with those above capabilities all I’ve asked is who you’d suggest we buy aside FdJ. It wasn’t a trick question, & you’re not being asked to do the job of a club with a scouting department but if you’d take McGinn & David Luiz then yes it’s probably right you don’t make any further suggestions as they’d simply become the next McFred, you’re just wanting players signed for the sake of it which would be suicidal. We need to improve not stagnate.
 
Plant0x84 said:
He won’t fix that at all, he’s not a DM. He’s a DLP.
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Exactly. Which is something we can certainly do with. And I am not suggesting to bring in somebody like Ndidi next to him but we need defensive prowess for the midfield as well. We can't just look for pretty pretty possession. Every major team has ball winning capabilities in midfield. Yet our fans seem to think that we, of all teams, will be able to get by without one. I mean, yeah, if we are looking for somebody who is good at taking the ball away of others, is creative, a great progressor by dribbling and passing and maybe pops up with a goal from time to time - sure, lets just wait for that. Maybe a package like that will show up. Or we could just be pragmatic and bring in more than one player to tick all boxes.

sglowrider said:
Besides even if they had alternatives, us fans are unlikely to know -- as illustrated by the transfer of Tyrell Malacia who had less than a 10-day cycle from introduction/links to the closing of the deal.
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Get your point, but lets not forget that Malacia has almost no international profile. Or did anybody even knew of his existence before his supposed transfer to OL?
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
So if you’re not a club with a scoring department why are you making statements such as. . .
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Well for starters this is a discussion forum, am I right? :)

AFC NimbleThumb said:
I’m not asking you to go into the club & sign players. You’re a fan so I take it you’ve seen players at other clubs that you like & that you think would improve the team? Or was the above statement just fanciful.
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No it wasn't. For me midfield is the key area where our club is lacking ability and numbers. It is a dire situation for years, only worsened by players leaving this summer. So yeah, I consider many players as capable improvements. Maybe not the "fanciful" names you and others would like to see but improvements nonetheless.

AFC NimbleThumb said:
If you’ve come to the conclusion we need players with those above capabilities all I’ve asked is who you’d suggest we buy aside FdJ. It wasn’t a trick question, & you’re not being asked to do the job of a club with a scouting department but if you’d take McGinn & David Luiz then yes it’s probably right you don’t make any further suggestions as they’d simply become the next McFred, you’re just wanting players signed for the sake of it which would be suicidal. We need to improve not stagnate.
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A) McFred will give you 3-5 out of 10 performances average through the season. Looking for players who are giving you constant 7-9 out of 10 performances is great, but it reduces the options. We would improve by bringing in one or two 5-7 out of 10 players. I get it, you are looking for the perfect coup. I am looking for better than what we have. I have no issue, bringing in a player who might be surplus of requirements in two years time as long as he contributed in our team getting more competitive again. It is what needs to be done - be pragmatic, accept where you are and deal with it. We can't just suck in recruitment for years and then undo that with one great transfer. We may need to eat the frog because it will stabilize us and that is what we need. Competing for titles needs a certain fundament. Be that "hard to beat" or "outscore every opposition". But we don't have anything to fall back on.

Fixating on one player is the worst thing to do in such a situation. Fixating on one with such a "dramatic" backstory is even worse.

B) Funny that you are scared of stagnating. The trend in the last years wasn't stagnating at all, it is was downward. Bringing in players to stop that trend would be a first step. Bringing in a player who can turn it around would be even better of course but I don't see ONE player able to do this. So why make it more difficult for ourselves?
 
NZT-One said:
Exactly. Which is something we can certainly do with. And I am not suggesting to bring in somebody like Ndidi next to him but we need defensive prowess for the midfield as well. We can't just look for pretty pretty possession. Every major team has ball winning capabilities in midfield. Yet our fans seem to think that we, of all teams, will be able to get by without one. I mean, yeah, if we are looking for somebody who is good at taking the ball away of others, is creative, a great progressor by dribbling and passing and maybe pops up with a goal from time to time - sure, lets just wait for that. Maybe a package like that will show up. Or we could just be pragmatic and bring in more than one player to tick all boxes.
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You assume ETH wants to play that way, we haven’t seen it so far in pre season. Don’t forget also we have signed Martinez who ETH describes as a warrior. Maybe he just wants to reinforce the backline and leave the defending to the defenders.
 
De Jong is not a DLP.

He is a roaming playmaker and will need a ball winning midfielder to allow him to roam.
 
Plant0x84 said:
You assume ETH wants to play that way, we haven’t seen it so far in pre season. Don’t forget also we have signed Martinez who ETH describes as a warrior. Maybe he just wants to reinforce the backline and leave the defending to the defenders.
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Lets hope he doesn't because Martinez or not, our defense is not good enough for that. As said somewhere else, if Bayern, City, Liverpool and Real, even prime Tiki-taka Barcelona, have a player in midfield who is very good in ballwinning (not necessarily his only strength of course), then I think expecting us to come up with a plan without one would be a sign of extreme optimism bordering losing touch with reality. Even worsened by the fact it is probably pretty easy to find a player who is good in that area. Just to remind you - I don't think, we have to go for Rice or Ndidi or something, top shelf isn't needed, but we need that quality somewhere in our squad. Be it for some games to sub in or to change plan A if it isn't working.
 
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NZT-One said:
No it wasn't. For me midfield is the key area where our club is lacking ability and numbers. It is a dire situation for years, only worsened by players leaving this summer. So yeah, I consider many players as capable improvements. Maybe not the "fanciful" names you and others would like to see but improvements nonetheless.


A) McFred will give you 3-5 out of 10 performances average through the season.
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So in answer to a question asking you if you could provide the names of an alternative player you have effectively said that yeah you could but you are not going to. If it is a discussion forum you kind of have to engage with an actual answer here.

Regarding the bolded. If anyone refers to McFred then their opinion instantly becomes significantly less valid. McTominay and Fred are very different players with different skillsets and one of them was easily amongst our best 5 players last season and the other one was McTominay.
 
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