Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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In terms of game theory, we should be floating some alternate options to the press so that Barcelona realize their lifeboat is about to leave without them. Right now, Barcelona sees it as "FDJ or bust" so they're waiting as long as they can for a piece of luck (e.g., FDJ bequeaths a gift to the children of Barcelona in the form of a 17m pound write-off to the club), but maybe it would accelerate things if they saw us making googly eyes at Rice/Neves/Whoever.

Also in all of this, there are some weird tax laws over there that prevents Messi from playing for $1 or even playing for free. So it's probably not like FDJ can just forgive that debt they owe and walk away. Plus everyone should hold in mind the mañana style of doing business: things take a long time to happen in any circumstance there.
 
hellhunter said:
I can see arguments for picking up Tielemans on a cheap if we don't expect him to play like De Jong, but rather no plan B than paying the ludicrous sum Wolves would want for Neves
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I can understand that too, the difference for me is that I just don't see that Tielemans will bring the required quality other than 'being better than McFred' - which itself isn't exactly a solid benchmark for us to plan our strategy for.
 
Zoo said:
Give me attainable names.
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We could have signed Vintha; too late for that now.
Renato Sanches is a player who could play the role and wouldn't cost a bomb,
I think Matheas Nunes is worth looking at, and I'm sure there are other profile of players around too who could be molded into the role but offer greater quality than we currently have in midfield.
If we're not signing Frankie then relying on players who we know absolutely cannot do the job, Fred and Mctominay is crazy. Even if we are going to try Iqbal, it's a gamble and we should be bringing in another young player to develop there too.
 
laughtersassassin said:


Oh god. There a chance we might go into this season with our current Midfield :lol:
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It's more than a chance it's likely the reality. As long as the money is used elsewhere for a striker / wide player it's not so bad. Being light in midfield is compensated by being top heavy but as it stands the team lacks significant quality in both positions.
 
Vapor trail said:
It's more than a chance it's likely the reality. As long as the money is used elsewhere for a striker / wide player it's not so bad. Being light in midfield is compensated by being top heavy but as it stands the team lacks significant quality in both positions.
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Having a strong spine is key to having a good team. It's criminal how long this club has neglected the midfield.
 
I just really hope we have a backup if this doesn’t happen because there must be 100 midfielders better than McFred it’s one of the most average midfield pairings in the league
 
Surely Eriksen already is an alternative for the LCM position, even if a stopgap until an eventual Frenkie move?
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
Surely Eriksen already is an alternative for the LCM position, even if a stopgap until an eventual Frenkie move?
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He said holding midfielder and referred to Eriken as an attacking midfielder.



I take it back, seems he see him player lower but again, I don't think he would be the deepest midfielder in initial buildup but who knows
 
Cassidy said:
We could have signed Vintha; too late for that now.
Renato Sanches is a player who could play the role and wouldn't cost a bomb,
I think Matheas Nunes is worth looking at, and I'm sure there are other profile of players around too who could be molded into the role but offer greater quality than we currently have in midfield.
If we're not signing Frankie then relying on players who we know absolutely cannot do the job, Fred and Mctominay is crazy. Even if we are going to try Iqbal, it's a gamble and we should be bringing in another young player to develop there too.
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Who is Vintha? If you mean Vitinha he is more of a an attacking mid so don't really see him as a FDJ alternative.
Sanches is also going to PSG, good luck outbidding them.
Nunes might be worth a shout but it is a big step up for him and he would certainly not be cheap for a player who probably would need a season to acclimatize.
ETH didn't buy or inherit the finished article with Frenkie, he coached him into being that player from the Ajax academy. Why is it so unlikely that Erik thinks that the next best option to signing Frenkie is to take one of our younger talents and develop them?
Buying a player just for the sake of buying a player is why we have burned through close to a billion on transfers since SAF left and have a dogshit squad to show for it.
 
Gandalf said:
Who is Vintha? If you mean Vitinha he is more of a an attacking mid so don't really see him as a FDJ alternative.
Sanches is also going to PSG, good luck outbidding them.
Nunes might be worth a shout but it is a big step up for him and he would certainly not be cheap for a player who probably would need a season to acclimatize.
ETH didn't buy or inherit the finished article with Frenkie, he coached him into being that player from the Ajax academy. Why is it so unlikely that Erik thinks that the next best option to signing Frenkie is to take one of our younger talents and develop them?
Buying a player just for the sake of buying a player is why we have burned through close to a billion on transfers since SAF left and have a dogshit squad to show for it.
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Vitinha plays as both an 8 and a 6, but again its about the players quality and attributes, he is a player who has very similar attributes and could develop into the role well in my opinion.
Regarding Sanches, he's been available all summer, and I'm sure we can put up a good bid for him, PSG isn't going to pay crazy money for him.
Nunes is available for around 40m euros which is good for a player of his talent.
I know Frenkie was coached but that's irrelevant, Frenkie had the requisite talent, we don't have a player who does who is ready, maybe Iqbal but that's a massive gamble (which we should take but we should also have someone else in the role too), Maino and Gore are far too young, Savage and Garner I don't believe are the right profile if you want a Frenkie style player
 
I'm back to ask a few questions, not muppeting:

1) Do we know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Barca must sell FDJ this window?

2) Out of McT, Fred and Eriksen, who would be able to play the FDJ role best? (If it is Eriksen, why do people keep harping on about McFred? Surely McFred is history now that we've got Eriksen...)

3) I've been out of it, so, how likely is it now that we'll end up with FDJ? Realistically.
 
Shakesey said:
I'm back to ask a few questions, not muppeting:

1) Do we know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Barca must sell FDJ this window? No

2) Out of McT, Fred and Eriksen, who would be able to play the FDJ role best? (If it is Eriksen, why do people keep harping on about McFred? Surely McFred is history now that we've got Eriksen...) Is it? Who knows, I don't think its Eriksen to be perfectly honest

3) I've been out of it, so, how likely is it now that we'll end up with FDJ? Realistically. Who knows
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Shakesey said:
I'm back to ask a few questions, not muppeting:

1) Do we know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Barca must sell FDJ this window?

2) Out of McT, Fred and Eriksen, who would be able to play the FDJ role best? (If it is Eriksen, why do people keep harping on about McFred? Surely McFred is history now that we've got Eriksen...)

3) I've been out of it, so, how likely is it now that we'll end up with FDJ?
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Just my opinion of course:

1) I don't think they have to fold if they don't sell him, but their finances would take a severe hit. So not an existential need, more a sensible, economic need. Are Barca financially sensible though?

2) Eriksen since he's the techincally most accomplished, midfield would need to look different though, since he's not a 6

3) That's really the question, isn't it? I'm still fairly confident, but it's decreasing. So if I was pressed to give a percentage, I'd say 60-70%
 
Cassidy said:
He said holding midfielder and referred to Eriken as an attacking midfielder.



I take it back, seems he see him player lower but again, I don't think he would be the deepest midfielder in initial buildup but who knows
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Eriksen initiated a lot of attacks from deep at Brentford. His long-range passing was trademark Scholesy. Different players but Eriksen showed that he can operate in a midfield role where he starts deep. Where FdJ starts attacks by bringing the ball himself, Eriksen usually pings it to a teammate. I didnt want the late Spurs/Inter version of Eriksen, but seeing him at Brentford has completely changed my view of him (although I have always seen him as a good player). I think he's perfect match for us.
 
Gandalf said:
Who is Vintha? If you mean Vitinha he is more of a an attacking mid so don't really see him as a FDJ alternative.
Sanches is also going to PSG, good luck outbidding them.
Nunes might be worth a shout but it is a big step up for him and he would certainly not be cheap for a player who probably would need a season to acclimatize.
ETH didn't buy or inherit the finished article with Frenkie, he coached him into being that player from the Ajax academy. Why is it so unlikely that Erik thinks that the next best option to signing Frenkie is to take one of our younger talents and develop them?
Buying a player just for the sake of buying a player is why we have burned through close to a billion on transfers since SAF left and have a dogshit squad to show for it.
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Fully agree. And what is the point of having such talented youngsters if they aren’t being prepared to join the first team. I’m sure it’s a loss of morale for them too.
I also think we haven’t had a proper coach as manager for a long time. So many folks write off half of our team but my final judgement on our squad will wait another season. ETH will certainly have many of them playing better football than they ever have.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
Eriksen initiated a lot of attacks from deep at Brentford. His long-range passing was trademark Scholesy. Different players but Eriksen showed that he can operate in a midfield role where he starts deep. Where FdJ starts attacks by bringing the ball himself, Eriksen usually pings it to a teammate.
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I'm sure he can, but what's his defensive contribution like, and is it enough? Enough for an attacking midfield player I am sure, but as a 6?
I think ideally the midfield would been Frenkie and Eriksen with Bruno ahead
 
Vapor trail said:
It's more than a chance it's likely the reality. As long as the money is used elsewhere for a striker / wide player it's not so bad. Being light in midfield is compensated by being top heavy but as it stands the team lacks significant quality in both positions.
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Nah it's awful and frankly unacceptable
 
Cassidy said:
I'm sure he can, but what's his defensive contribution like, and is it enough? Enough for an attacking midfield player I am sure, but as a 6?
I think ideally the midfield would bee Frenkie and Eriksen with Bruno ahead
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Not good enough as a 6. Hence Conte benched him. He can play there but will need support.
 
Red Company said:
Fully agree. And what is the point of having such talented youngsters if they aren’t being prepared to join the first team. I’m sure it’s a loss of morale for them too.
I also think we haven’t had a proper coach as manager for a long time. So many folks write off half of our team but my final judgement on our squad will wait another season. ETH will certainly have many of them playing better football than they ever have.
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We don't need to wait a season to see McFred cannot play 6, Fred is usual but not as the controlling midfielder or holding player either, whist the other guy needs to go to Newcastle sharpish
 
Shakesey said:
I'm back to ask a few questions, not muppeting:

1) Do we know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Barca must sell FDJ this window?

2) Out of McT, Fred and Eriksen, who would be able to play the FDJ role best? (If it is Eriksen, why do people keep harping on about McFred? Surely McFred is history now that we've got Eriksen...)

3) I've been out of it, so, how likely is it now that we'll end up with FDJ?
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1) No we don't as Barca are pulling money out of their arse and signing world class players despite having a wage cap prior to signing all these players and not being able to register them either. So yes, no, maybe yes, maybe no, maybe maybe

2) McFred isn't necessarily dead as Eriksen is an attacking midfielder whilst the brothers in arms are more defensive minded. FDJ is a deep lying play maker. Neither McT or Fred are that and Eriksen is a more attacking player.

3) 100% take away 0-100%
 
hellhunter said:
Just my opinion of course:

1) I don't think they have to fold if they don't sell him, but their finances would take a severe hit. So not an existential need, more a sensible, economic need. Are Barca financially sensible though?

2) Eriksen since he's the techincally most accomplished, midfield would need to look different though, since he's not a 6

3) That's really the question, isn't it? I'm still fairly confident, but it's decreasing. So if I was pressed to give a percentage, I'd say 60-70%
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Thanks bud
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Meh, Herrera was the answer then Pogba was the answer, then Matic/Pogba was the answer.
One fecking plan B player aint gonna be the answer, the manager is, I’ve as much faith he’d develop someone from his academy as I am that a plan B would suddenly make our midfield “acceptable”.
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The answer is hopefully Ten Hag.
 
We need an rvn said:
1) No we don't as Barca are pulling money out of their arse and signing world class players despite having a wage cap prior to signing all these players and not being able to register them either. So yes, no, maybe yes, maybe no, maybe maybe

2) McFred isn't necessarily dead as Eriksen is an attacking midfielder whilst the brothers in arms are more defensive minded. FDJ is a deep lying play maker. Neither McT or Fred are that and Eriksen is a more attacking player.

3) 100% take away 0-100%
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Thanks, and to you @Cassidy.

So few here think Eriksen could be that 6... Damn.
 
Cassidy said:
I'm sure he can, but what's his defensive contribution like, and is it enough? Enough for an attacking midfield player I am sure, but as a 6?
I think ideally the midfield would bee Frenkie and Eriksen with Bruno ahead
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It's hard to tell. I think everyone has been so obsessed with having a midfield destroyer paired with an offensive-minded CM that having two press-resistant offensive minded players (Eriksen and FdJ as an example) initially feels a bit lightweight. It could work in theory though, especially if EtH can successfully integrate Martinez as some kind of hybrid CB/DM. Eriksen have always been of, if not the biggest, performers in terms of workrate regardless of starting position though..
 
Nytram Shakes said:
That’s really weird, considering most of the evidence points towards him at least not been too keen to come here.
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Well, if you argue that everyone is lying or playing mind games, then guess you can throw away any news. That is precisely what has been happening on this thread for days now.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
It's hard to tell. I think everyone has been so obsessed with having a midfield destroyer paired with an offensive-minded CM that having two press-resistant offensive minded players (Eriksen and FdJ as an example) initially feels a bit lightweight. It could work in theory though, especially if EtH can successfully integrate Martinez as some kind of hybrid CB/DM. Eriksen have always been of, if not the biggest, performers in terms of workrate regardless of starting position though..
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The thing is Frenkie despite being offensive minded is defensively sound, we don't need a destroyer I agree, especially with someone like Martinez in the defense. For instance, neither Carrick or Scholes were destroyers. I think Eriksen could play next to FDJ, I'm not sure Eriksen could play the role without another signing to partner him with.
 
Glorio said:
That last line seems quite significant. Almost as though there's an understanding that the said player will become available at some point
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I think Frenkie’s told him he’s off, as Barça have already told him that they want rid of him (which is enough for 99.9% of players to feck off) and that he won’t be first choice.
In fact, 99.9% of humans would feck off if being treated like utter shite and had an offer elsewhere to a manager they previously loved working for.
At the point Barça panic into giving him a big payout of his owed wages, that’s when he’ll “become available”.
 
We can question many sources but you'd be foolish to question Andy Mitten. If he thinks it'll happen it'll happen. Just be patient lads

 
Putting my tin foil hat on for a moment, could this be some kind of reverse Sergio Ramos?

Barca threatening to sell him if he doesn't lower his wages, De Jong doesn't play ball. They negotiate with us, making the threat more real. We're being played the whole time.

Would explain De Jongs public stance, if there wasn't the simple fact they can't sell him against his will. Back to the drawing board

How am I doing, @ThehatchetMan ?

Maybe it's also Frenkie threatening to leave if he doesn't get his money and Barca called his bluff and negotiated with us. Would explain their public stance, less so his
 
hellhunter said:
Putting my tin foil hat on for a moment, could this be some kind of reverse Sergio Ramos?

Barca threatening to sell him if he doesn't lower his wages, De Jong doesn't play ball. They negotiate with us, making the threat more real. We're being played the whole time.

Would explain De Jongs public stance, if there wasn't the simple fact they can't sell him against his will. Back to the drawing board

How am I doing, @ThehatchetMan ?

Maybe it's also Frenkie threatening to leave if he doesn't get his money and Barca called his bluff and negotiated with us. Would explain their public stance, less so his
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Except Barca negotiated with us before talking to Frenkie, selling him seems to be their only wish.
 
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