Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Keefy18]

Oh absolutely. FDJ can, if he wants to, continue at Barca on his current contract. As far as I can tell, Barca would have no legal recourse to prevent that from happening. I guess my point would be that, from Barca's point of view, paying him the 17 million he's owed now appears to be a much more attractive option than just having him stay for the next four years on the same salary.

It could be that there is some agreement to be made between the two clubs that works out financially for Barca and also allows De Jong to stay with the club but right now, it seems to me that Barca's best option would be to pay him what he wants in deferred wages. At that stage we would find out once and for all whether De Jong really is completely opposed to a move, or whether it was the deferred salary holding the deal up this entire time.

The problem with that theory though is if they pay him, they then have to pay Pique, Stegen, Busquets in deferred wages also. I'm not up to date on their individual cases so stand to be corrected.

If they are owed monies also then it'd be a domino effect.

 

[Real Name]

As much optimist as I am I think we should leave this deal.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

The problem with that theory though is if they pay him, they then have to pay Pique, Stegen, Busquets in deferred wages also. I'm not up to date on their individual cases so stand to be corrected.

If they are owed monies also then it'd be a domino effect.

I don't follow. Seemingly, they'd be paying him those deferred wages to get him to leave the club, not because they're legally obliged to do so.

It's worth remembering here that Barca want De Jong to leave. I'm pretty sure nobody can deny that at this stage.

 

[JPRouve]

The problem with that theory though is if they pay him, they then have to pay Pique, Stegen, Busquets in deferred wages also. I'm not up to date on their individual cases so stand to be corrected.

If they are owed monies also then it'd be a domino effect.

No they don't. Each of these players have separate contracts, an agreement with a player doesn't engage them with others.

 

[golden_blunder]

Exactly thats my whole entire point! People are saying that we're going after de Jong with no assurances from the player and that EtH is chasing him blindly.
I was using it as an example of how stupid it seems and how daft it would be for ten Hag to do something like that. If you've read my posts i've always maintained that ten Hag has had full assurances from de Jong and still does to this day

Apologies fella, I read that one post and thought that’s what was running through your brain!
I can’t believe anyone would think that ETH hadn’t received some encouragement from FDJs camp

 

[Keefy18]

No they don't. Each of these players have separate contracts, an agreement with a player doesn't engage them with others.

I understand each have separate contracts.

The point I am making is if a group of individuals agreed to defer wages and 1 gets it then you can fully expect the rest to request the same.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Until Frenkie channels his inner DiCaprio and, using the power of his similarly chinless face, shouts "I'm not fecking leaving" from the tallest tower I still have hope. All of the talk so far has been from "sources" close to Frenkie, but nothing out of his own gob.

This time next week he'll announce that everything was paper talk and he was never leaving...

 

[JPRouve]

I understand each have separate contracts.

The point I am making is if a group of individuals agreed to defer wages and 1 gets it then you can fully expect the rest to request the same.

No, you can't expect it. Because the only reason that one player would have an agreement to have an anticipated payment of his deferred wages is because he intends to leave before the end of his contract. So unless all these players intend to leave prematurely there is no reason to expect the same request.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Are we forgetting that Barcelona have -140m balance or something? And that's without paying their players' salary. They need like 700m or 800m at least. No chance they won't sell FDJ and they will be fecked without selling FDJ because how are they going to get that 700m or 800m without selling some of their players after signing new players? Imagine FDJ stays and they can't longer register Raphinha.

 

[RkkMan]

That's crossed my mind also. It'd be an easy deal to get done as they could probably do a straight swap? Market value of both players is about the same.

However, being linked to FDJ and signing Neves would be a real kick in the teeth. Whilst I would have loved Neves this time last year, it's a step down from FDJ.

Any midfielder we sign from here on is a step back from FDJ doesn't mean we sign nobody
Neves IMO is the best of the bunch available to us amongst the plan Bs

 

[Ekeke]

Apologies fella, I read that one post and thought that’s what was running through your brain!
I can’t believe anyone would think that ETH hadn’t received some encouragement from FDJs camp

Seems obvious that ETH knows he'll come as a last option if Barcelona go scorched earth and say he wont play as a starter or something like that as punishment for not moving. But thats it. He doesnt want to come but if forced to leave Barcelona, he'd accept coming here... But that doesnt mean we'd be first choice if other teams come in

 

[Joseunited]

Shared earlier in the thread

How does activating the second lever do that?It doesn't change what they are allowed to spend on wages according to La Liga salary commitments does it?
I call bullshite on that one.

 

[Superunknown]

Are we forgetting that Barcelona have -140m balance or something? And that's without paying their players' salary. They need like 700m or 800m at least. No chance they won't sell FDJ and they will be fecked without selling FDJ because how are they going to get that 700m or 800m without selling some of their players after signing new players? Imagine FDJ stays and they can't longer register Raphinha.

Let's all be honest here. The money will mysteriously appear in their account from somewhere. They'll Marty Byrde that shit.

 

[Brownie85]

Apologies fella, I read that one post and thought that’s what was running through your brain!
I can’t believe anyone would think that ETH hadn’t received some encouragement from FDJs camp

Not a problem at all, you kinda find yourself repeating the same things over and over in here because people truly believe Unitwd and EtH would blindly chase a player that has no intentions of joininghaha.

Ten Hag has a fantastic relationship with de Jong and vice versa, it would be moronic for de Jong to destroy that relationship with lies and deceit as even if not now, in the future he might like to work with Ten Hag again so keeping that relationship strong is vital. All de Jong has to say to Ten Hag is:

"Boss, I respect you deeply and truly enjoyed working with you, but as of right now I'm happy here and want to look for a solution to stay, but I don't rule anything out in the future"

If he was told that, I'm pretty sure Ten Hag would respect that and then move on to another target as he clearly doesnt want to join at this time. What he's been told is quite probably more along the lines of:

"I'm very open to joining and look forward to working with you again but there's an issue here regarding (whatever issue is). My agent and I are working on it, but rest assured when it's done I'm happy to join you again"

That would explain ten Hag and United not backing away and pushing on even though publicly de Jong has said he doesn't want to leave. It truly is a case of what's said in public isn't what's being said behind closed doors. Maybe him saying he wants to leave does weaken his hand somewhat. Maybe he would lose a whole lot of money and bonuses if says he wants to leave. Maybe he's agreed to leaving privately with the directors etc but has told others he wants to stay. We just don't know and even when it's over we'll likely never know what truly happened

 

[FreakyJim]

How can you two be so calm about this farce

delusion, mostly

 

[Scholsey2004]

Some journo's have Neves as our next go to.

Wolves will no doubt make life hard for us on this transfer also, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as this FDJ saga! We'll end up over paying for Neves though because of this idiotic situation we've involved ourselves in though.

Honestly my concern is if Silva goes to Barca, City might try get FDJ.




McFred wouldn't get games for most any other top 10 PL side. Maybe some relegation battlers.
Fred has poor passing, Scott the absolute worst football brain for positioning / movement in recent memory for a CM.

Neves isn't perfect by any means but it'd be an improvement on them both. Hell put him beside Fred with Eriksen and its better, also have Donny and Iqbal as fallback options to mix it up.

I think if de Jong went to City to replace Silva then he'd have the same problem as at Barca in that he'd be playing out of position. De Jong can control the play from the deep lying playmaker role, he cant do that playing as an 8 and he doesnt have the attacking threat or output Silva has. City dismissed the idea, presumably for those reasons. He'd likely be competing for a place with Rodri.

 

[Semper Fudge]

How can you two be so calm about this farce

It's only football.

 

[Keefy18]

No, you can't expect it. Because the only reason that one player would have an agreement to have an anticipated payment of his deferred wages is because he intends to leave before the end of his contract. So unless all these players intend to leave prematurely there is no reason to expect the same request.

True, I get what you mean now.

I've not looked into each players contract details but believe one of them is due up next summer (contract runs out), then another the summer after and the one after that. Basically, every summer this is going to be an issue for Barca for the foreseeable as they have to pay these lads monies owed.

 

[Keefy18]

How does activating the second lever do that?It doesn't change what they are allowed to spend on wages according to La Liga salary commitments does it?
I call bullshite on that one.

I think wages are being lowered for a few players, like Dembele. His contract expired and he is now paid less.

La Liga's rules are beyond crazy and its a minefield, something we'd have to read up on I'm sure.

 

[BluesJr]

Worth noting that Zinchenko is going on tour with City with a move to Arsenal looking very likely. The tour thing means very little.

 

[Joseunited]

It's only football.

Wash your fecking mouth out with soap.

 

[Brownie85]

Worth noting that Zinchenko is going on tour with City with a move to Arsenal looking very likely. The tour thing means very little.

Going on tour means absolutely nothing it's just a fitness building exercise to get ready for the new season, nothing more or less.

As long as a player is contracted to the club, they can do whatever they want with their players, take them on tour, leave them at home, it's their choice. Fee agreed or not, means nothing at all

 

[BluesJr]

Going on tour means absolutely nothing it's just a fitness building exercise to get ready for the new season, nothing more or less.

As long as a player is contracted to the club, they can do whatever they want with their players, take them on tour, leave them at home, it's their choice. Fee agreed or not, means nothing at all

Tell that to all the absolute melts in this thread. I love transfer threads and following along with the updates etc but there’s so many I’d ban from taking part. It’s supposed to be a fun ride, it’s only football at the end of the day.

 

[Keefy18]

"I'm very open to joining and look forward to working with you again but there's an issue here regarding (whatever issue is). My agent and I are working on trying to get deferred wages I am owed, but there is no certainty".

Amended your quote and personally I think ETH was told something very similar to this and we've ran with it since.

I think folks also forget how much pressure supporters / anti glazer protest types (also) are putting on the board and manager to be seen to be actively pursuing targets.

I honestly think we are a bit desperate if that's the right word and likely over trying.

I know some won't agree and you'll say ETH is clever, attention to detail etc etc.. But he's joined a club who has acted in polar opposite fashion for over a decade now.

 

[Brownie85]

Until Frenkie channels his inner DiCaprio and, using the power of his similarly chinless face, shouts "I'm not fecking leaving" from the tallest tower I still have hope. All of the talk so far has been from "sources" close to Frenkie, but nothing out of his own gob.

This time next week he'll announce that everything was paper talk and he was never leaving...

I think he's said once that's he wants to stay but sources have just been running with that and adding lots of other things he's apparently said too (prefers Chelsea, then when that dried up he never wanted to go there and is prioritising United. Then he doesn't want to go to United under any circumstances). I don't think I've seen anything directly from him, as in video or what not.

Not doubting that he wants to stay but I think he's being advised to say he wants to stay.

 

[JPRouve]

True, I get what you mean now.

I've not looked into each players contract details but believe one of them is due up next summer (contract runs out), then another the summer after and the one after that. Basically, every summer this is going to be an issue for Barca for the foreseeable as they have to pay these lads monies owed.

Not really, the deferred wages aren't actually deferred wages, they are just wages. There is not going to be anything like that unless Barcelona try to sell them before the end of their contract. To make it simple, Barcelona renegotiated contracts and backloaded them.

For example lets say that you are supposed to be paid 10m every year for the next 4 years but you renegotiate your contract in order to help your employer and are now paid 5m for the next two years and 15m for the final two years. Then your employer ask you to break your contract and forfeit the 30m including the 10m that were backloaded in order to help them.

 

[fallengt]

800 fecking pages. I wish I had this much energy like some of you lot

 

[PedroMendez]

I don't follow. Seemingly, they'd be paying him those deferred wages to get him to leave the club, not because they're legally obliged to do so.

It's worth remembering here that Barca want De Jong to leave. I'm pretty sure nobody can deny that at this stage.

Barca care primarily about the short-term constraint caused by the la liga salary cap.
The question is if "paying him off to leave" by compensating him for deferred wages, would count towards the la liga salary cap. It would be a pretty gigantic loop-hole if it doesn't. At least common sense would indicate, that such a one-time payment would be treated exactly like wages. If that is true, it makes little sense for Barca to do so, because they'd hardly save any "cap space".

 

[lefty_jakobz]

He will sign once this thread reaches 1000 pages

 

[Brownie85]

Amended your quote and personally I think ETH was told something very similar to this and we've ran with it since.

I think folks also forget how much pressure supporters / anti glazer protest types (also) are putting on the board and manager to be seen to be actively pursuing targets.

I honestly think we are a bit desperate if that's the right word and likely over trying.

I know some won't agree and you'll say ETH is clever, attention to detail etc etc.. But he's joined a club who has acted in polar opposite fashion for over a decade now.

So you truly believe he's going after a player that hasn't given him assurances that when the problems are sorted he'd be happy to come?

For United to pursue this as strongly as they are, they must know that personal terms are just a formality and that the wage issue is the true problem but it will be sorted in time, hence not walking away.

ten Hag wouldn't chase de Jong for no reason at all, it would make all involved look absolutely stupid

 

[Keefy18]

Not really, the deferred wages aren't actually deferred wages, they are just wages. There is not going to be anything like that unless Barcelona try to sell them before the end of their contract. To make it simple, Barcelona renegotiated contracts and backloaded them.

For example lets say that you are supposed to be paid 10m every year for the next 4 years but you renegotiate your contract in order to help your employer and are now paid 5m for the next two years and 15m for the final two years. Then your employer ask you to break your contract and forfeit the 30m including the 10m that were backloaded in order to help them.

It depends on each situation as you say, I don't believe new deals were signed lowering wages, just deferred. I've not read about each players situation though.

If for example Piques deal runs out next summer and they underpaid him / deferred his wages by 8m. My understanding is they have to pay that to him by June 30th next year, by whatever the terms of the contract state, weekly, monthly or lump sum.

Either way the money is still due to the player, unless the waived the monies completely and signed a new deal, which I would say is unlikely.

 

[SirScholes]

I try not to think about Pogo

You’re right, I’m going to follow this example haha

 

[Berbaclass]

So you truly believe he's going after a player that hasn't given him assurances that when the problems are sorted he'd be happy to come?

For United to pursue this as strongly as they are, they must know that personal terms are just a formality and that the wage issue is the true problem but it will be sorted in time, hence not walking away.

ten Hag wouldn't chase de Jong for no reason at all, it would make all involved look absolutely stupid

Don’t try and use logic mate. It won’t get you anywhere with him.

 

[RedMilo]

I don’t know where you got that but you seem convinced it is true. Maybe we should all believe it. Where did you hear it?

Why on earth when we agreed an overall deal initial fee plus add ons would we then go and up the guaranteed initial fee then. Its very clear to me to force Barca to address the wage issue to force the deal through. Multiple sources have advised Barca have put a proposal to FDJ to leave, and his response hasn't changed - he is staying.

Utd are looking like mugs here. Dont know what his agent is playing at, but the player seemingly has no desire to join us.

 

[Brownie85]

Don’t try and use logic mate. It won’t get you anywhere with him.

No logic allowed here I take it?

 

[Berbaclass]

No logic allowed here I take it?

Not if it means they’re wrong

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Barca care primarily about the short-term constraint caused by the la liga salary cap.
The question is if "paying him off to leave" by compensating him for deferred wages, would count towards the la liga salary cap. It would be a pretty gigantic loop-hole if it doesn't. At least common sense would indicate, that such a one-time payment would be treated exactly like wages. If that is true, it makes little sense for Barca to do so, because they'd hardly save any "cap space".

To be honest, any of these finer details are way above my pay grade. All I would say, though, is that if everything stated in your post is correct I would have to wonder why Barca would bother facilitating a transfer at all. You could make the case that they just didn't think they'd have to try this hard to get rid of De Jong but it was essentially public knowledge that this deferred payment is a snag before news broke that United and Barca had agreed a fee.

 

[Brownie85]

Why on earth when we agreed an overall deal initial fee plus add ons would we then go and up the guaranteed initial fee then. Its very clear to me to force Barca to address the wage issue to force the deal through. Multiple sources have advised Barca have put a proposal to FDJ to leave, and his response hasn't changed - he is staying.

Utd are looking like mugs here. Dont know what his agent is playing at, but the player seemingly has no desire to join us.

Yeah they have apparently... They want to give him €3m and get him to write off the rest before he leaves. Would you accept that deal? Something tells me that you really wouldn't

 

[Keefy18]

So you truly believe he's going after a player that hasn't given him assurances that when the problems are sorted he'd be happy to come?

For United to pursue this as strongly as they are, they must know that personal terms are just a formality and that the wage issue is the true problem but it will be sorted in time, hence not walking away.

ten Hag wouldn't chase de Jong for no reason at all, it would make all involved look absolutely stupid

Stranger things an all that. Fergie met with Pep in New York to convince him to become United manager, things were lost in translation. The rest is history.

ETH isn't chasing him for no reason at all, simply perhaps taking more from an assurance than he should perhaps? Tie in Barca's financial strife, they entered into the transfer saga thinking we could strong arm another sleeping giant of European football into losing their prized asset to make ourselves look strong.

Going into this transfer window we had a group of morons ready to storm the new CEO's home to protest outside, he met them in a local pub and made assurances. He no doubt feels he has to start out looking very strong, to be seen supporting the manager at all costs after a decade of mismanagement.

Even if we say you are 100% right and the wage issue is the true problem, how likely are Barca to cough up those funds? Honestly do you feel confident they will? I don't. They haven't for any player yet to my knowledge.

Player after player are bending to Barca's demands, Barca have not given into a player yet.

 

[JPRouve]

It depends on each situation as you say, I don't believe new deals were signed lowering wages, just deferred. I've not read about each players situation though.

If for example Piques deal runs out next summer and they underpaid him / deferred his wages by 8m. My understanding is they have to pay that to him by June 30th next year, by whatever the terms of the contract state, weekly, monthly or lump sum.

Either way the money is still due to the player, unless the waived the monies completely and signed a new deal, which I would say is unlikely.

De Jong signed a new contract in October 2020. It's not a deferred wage, part of the press is using the term because it's convenient. What they did is make him sign a new contract with an extension and an increasing wage.