Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Sky1981]

The issue isn't his loyalty bonus, it's the deferred wages from 2021 that he feels he is due. Not even remotely the same thing.

Barca feel that they agreed to reimburse it at the end of his contract and that him leaving would void that. FDJ camp knows they need to sell so they dig in and say he wants to stay and have no doubt said to Laporta that he wont leave unless he is paid the deferred wages, think Goodfellas "F you, pay me". Nothing to do with loyalty bonus, at all. To publicly even hint that he wants to leave would weaken his position. Its really not that difficult.

Not sure if they dont put clauses in their contract. Unless his lawyer is Lionel Hutz

You just dont bank your uncollected salary on future contract just like that without stipulation.

Moreover the salary are alreary accrued.

 

[croadyman]

If you genuinely believe that, that's your problem really. I can't fathom people actually thinking Ten Hag would have us chasing a player all summer, a player he knows, and the player has no interest in joining us. If that turned out to be true, I'd be beyond gobsmacked.

So if that's the case then why isn't he pushing for this deferred wages issue to get sorted quicker

 

[Berbasbullet]

So if that's the case then why isn't he pushing for this deferred wages issue to get sorted quicker

How do you know he isnt?

 

[Judas]

So if that's the case then why isn't he pushing for this deferred wages issue to get sorted quicker

I'm sure he is? Obviously. Because that's not being reported in the Daily Star you can't believe it?

 

[pocco]

Barca continuing to spend money, without actually having sold De Jong.

How does that work?

RedCafe probably not as clued up on what they can and can't do with all this finance they're receiving.

 

[Cypriot]

British journos are starting to crumble in the last 24 hours.

Luckhurst and Shaw querying why we've stuck with it this long. It's minor for now, but I imagine in the week ahead you'll start seeing a change in narrative from the UK side also.

Fair enough if that happens then surely we’ll move onto another target. But my view is that to be going this long - we’ve had some assurances from the players’ side.

Just to touch on another point: even if Barcelona can register the new signings I don’t believe this would be off as they’ve been pretty public about the fact that they want to replace him with Bernardo Silva.

Yes, it would make them less desperate to sell him but think Xavi wants Bernardo in to complete his overhaul.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Maybe with him? Maybe they're taking him on the tour but not intending to play him much/at all, such to show him he's not in their plans

the bolded parts don't mesh together

 

[Bebestation]

I personally feel that we want a playmaker as well as a CDM/CB hybrid player.

Our plan is to go for de Jong this summer and the Cb/CDM hybrid next summer (use Martinez until then so he can adapt to LCB as well).

If De Jong doesn’t come then we probably will go for the CB/CDM hybrid player first and go for De Jong or someone else in January or next summer.

 

[YikesSchmeics]

Not sure if they dont put clauses in their contract. Unless his lawyer is Lionel Hutz

Half the battle with lawyers is interpretation of the language used and the feeling of being able to justify that argument in a legal setting. I think from the outside looking in that its more likely Barca are being advised by Lionel Hutz, but nonetheless, that remains the crux of this impasse.

 

[golden_blunder]

If he's telling the board that de Jong is willing to join and that he's had assurances and he's certain that it'll be done, when in reality he hasn't and de Jong is telling the truth, doesn't want to join, has told ten Hag so, and so has his agent, yet he continues to push for him, then i imagine the board would be very pissed off having gone to all the effort of agreeing a fee etc and they'd likely question any future signings that he wants to make. Just my opinion as i don't know whats happening.

I don't think thats likely though. I think he's had proper assurances, he's very confident de Jong wants the move and has told the board so, likely with some proof i'd imagine? I don't know though

That’s some fecked up conspiracy theory and very very unlikely. ETH strikes me as a get on with business type of guy, very much about building the team and no bullshit. If ETH thinks he’s worth chasing you can bet your life that FDJ was open to the idea in direct talks with him. What comes out of both camps (FDJ and Barca’s seems to be all game play to see who cracks first in relation to money owed)

 

[Sky1981]

I hope that he knows that if this fail to happen then United will end up with an egg on their face the size of the empire state building. It would also be a good idea if he advice FDJ to stop calling Barca his dream team and show a bit more respect towards a club that wants him and has a tendency to actually pay their players.

To be fair he's saying he wants to stay since day 1. Never otherwise.

So unless he's a two faced snake while telling us otherwise behind the screen it's not on him to service us.

 

[MinGin]

Well, maybe Barce brings FDJ to tour is to convince FDJ to sign a new contract with a significant pay cut. That will happen if FDJ really want to stay at Barce.

 

[RkkMan]

Great post.

Far, far too many posters are absolutely blinded by some utter idiotic transfer muppetry on here that they can't see the woods for the trees!

On the ETH thread they'll berate anyone questioning the mans abilities and say he can work with inferior players... But on here, its a case of ETH absolutely must have the top player in FDJ to make his system work.

It's transfer muppets caught up in the excitement of a shiny new toy.

Neves could and would be an improvement on what we have and we can get him far easier I reckon than this idiotic saga.

We`ve had disagreements but I`ll be the first to admit you were right about this deal likely not happening and him flat out not wanting us and people here will have to slowly come to terms with that.
They also need to see that FDJ is top draw quality but not the only midfielder that can improve us and that its fine if we walk away now or latest end of the month while we have time to sign a plan B
Like you said the snobbery towards Neves is silly. Unlike FDJ he`ll push to come here, Wolves will sell because this is their last chance to secure a big bag and he`ll give his all here. His technical ability isn`t out of question or willingness to put in a shift or get his feet stuck in. He lacks in press resistance but playing him next to Fred/someone of that ilk plus a more possession based system easily covers up that weakness

 

[Keefy18]

I completely agree with you that Barca are going to be able to register Raphinha and Lewandowski and, for all intents and purposes, we can probably consider both to be done.

I think you're completely wrong that De Jong has no bargaining power left when it comes to added wages though. You are forgetting the fact that, should he stay at Barca, he is under absolutely no obligation to take the salary cut that Barca are asking of him. According to the Marca report on De Jong's contract, also touched upon in this article on The Athletic, this will entail Barcelona paying him a total of €88.7 million over the next four seasons in salary and loyalty bonuses. Assuming that the €17 million in deferred payments forms a part of this figure (which by my understanding is correct), that would still be €71.7 million owed to him over the next four seasons. That works out at about €18 million per season. It's not hard to see how this isn't ideal for a club already struggling with its finances that, at this moment, patently does not view De Jong to be a key player for the club.

The leverage De Jong has, then, with the reported €17 million payment is that, should Barca choose not to pay it, they will be paying him even more than that every season for the next four years of his contract AND forego the money they'd receive from the transfer itself. I therefore think it is incorrect to act as though Barca's ability to register Raphinha and Lewandowski without De Jong's sale/salary reduction negates any bargaining power that De Jong might have in this situation.

I wouldn't say *no* bargaining power, he has certainly lost a considerable bargaining chip however.

They have and probably still are asking him to leave for the reasons you mention here, but I imagine some agreement that is satisfactory to both parties will be met in the days ahead.

FDJ can simply keep saying no to their demands and they can't force him out, Bogarde done the same with Chelsea years ago. I am fairly certain Phil Jones has done it to United at least once in recent years, if not twice, refusing to leave to another club on lower wages.

 

[pocco]

So you don't have any worries about a player who by all accounts isn't interested in joining

His first choice is to stay on his agreed salary. That's been very widely reported. Ignore the noise.

Barca will have to pay him up if they need him to leave.

 

[croadyman]

How do you know he isnt?

Just think if that was the case would be hearing it from Utd sources not this willing to play waiting game BS.

 

[Judas]

Just think if that was the case would be hearing it from Utd sources not this willing to play waiting game BS.

Why would we brief that our new manager is pressuring the board to get a fecking move on? Who looks good from that? No one, it's totally illogical.

 

[pocco]

Just think if that was the case would be hearing it from Utd sources not this willing to play waiting game BS.

Depends which sources you want to believe. Some said when they announced the fee was agreed that this week is the deadline. Next week we may see movement in another direction, particularly with all parties now being away on tour.

 

[JustinC00]

The issue isn't his loyalty bonus, it's the deferred wages from 2021 that he feels he is due. Not even remotely the same thing.

Barca feel that they agreed to reimburse it at the end of his contract and that him leaving would void that. FDJ camp knows they need to sell so they dig in and say he wants to stay and have no doubt said to Laporta that he wont leave unless he is paid the deferred wages, think Goodfellas "F you, pay me". Nothing to do with loyalty bonus, at all. To publicly even hint that he wants to leave would weaken his position. Its really not that difficult.

This.. The second he agrees he loses any leverage to get his deferred money and most likely him agreeing to our terms would probably contractually/legally absolve Barcelona from paying it. Most likely has some little paragraph in the document they signed for the deferred wages that any money still owed is waived if he leaves for another club. Yes Barcelona are that scummy just look at the utter stat they are in.

Once again have to state the fact that his agent was literally at United's offices recently (Malacia signing) which was before Murtough and Arnold went to Spain to work on an agreement with Barcelona. Just think at that point the agent would have at least given the heads up since we seem to have a solid relationship with him and we would have moved on. Just like with Timber how we were going for him and he wanted to stay for World Cup reasons and we quickly moved on to Martinez.

 

[Brownie85]

That’s some fecked up conspiracy theory and very very unlikely. ETH strikes me as a get on with business type of guy, very much about building the team and no bullshit. If ETH thinks he’s worth chasing you can bet your life that FDJ was open to the idea in direct talks with him. What comes out of both camps (FDJ and Barca’s seems to be all game play to see who cracks first in relation to money owed)

Exactly thats my whole entire point! People are saying that we're going after de Jong with no assurances from the player and that EtH is chasing him blindly.
I was using it as an example of how stupid it seems and how daft it would be for ten Hag to do something like that. If you've read my posts i've always maintained that ten Hag has had full assurances from de Jong and still does to this day

 

[Lee565]

Can he not just take Barca to court over the deferred wages if he really does want to leave them?


I hope he stays at barca and both him and Barca get screwed over in the long term.

him in terms of Barca carrying on treating him like a mug by trying to force him out of the club againt his will and shafting him with is wages and in terms of Barca that they will have to put themselves in even further debt to get players into the club without the money they would have got for fdj to help cover them and fall even further into a financial mess and live in madrid's shadow for another 5 years.

 

[croadyman]

Depends which sources you want to believe. Some said when they announced the fee was agreed that this week is the deadline. Next week we may see movement in another direction, particularly with all parties now being away on tour.

That was Talksport sources who have been pretty good recently, however can't see movement while they are now on tour

 

[Swordsman]

whatever upd

Old Trafford isn't bad either, and if you earn do many millions every year it really doesn't matter where you live.
If it's for the weather or better nightlife in Barcelona, then all alarm bells should ring. Clear sign the player doesn't have the attitude to succeed on the highest level.

It's okay to prefer to be in Barcelona, I just don't see the need to state it publicly. If he needs to move in the end this statements of preference and loyalty will haunt him at his new club when things don't go as smooth as expected.

Yeah agree. its not like the players are living in desert or post apocalyptic place or Favela

 

[croadyman]

Why would we brief that our new manager is pressuring the board to get a fecking move on? Who looks good from that? No one, it's totally illogical.

Why isn't De Jong wanting to get a move on then

 

[Brownie85]

That was Talksport sources who have been pretty good recently, however can't see movement while they are now on tour

Why? Do you think all transfer business stops when clubs are on tour? Are we not living in the age of e-mails and phonecalls?
Things don't stop because a club is on tour. Agents can still work with directors and the sorts

 

[Judas]

We've literally proved that being on tour stops absolutely nothing.

 

[Cypriot]

Old Trafford isn't bad either, and if you earn do many millions every year it really doesn't matter where you live.
If it's for the weather or better nightlife in Barcelona, then all alarm bells should ring. Clear sign the player doesn't have the attitude to succeed on the highest level.

It's okay to prefer to be in Barcelona, I just don't see the need to state it publicly. If he needs to move in the end this statements of preference and loyalty will haunt him at his new club when things don't go as smooth as expected.

Whilst I love my club and would love to agree - he already is playing at the highest level and has succeeded. Professionally we're not a step up from Barcelona at the moment, especially with the signings they are making.

 

[Brownie85]

Why isn't De Jong wanting to get a move on then

Again, how do you know he and his agent aren't pushing to get it sorted? Because Romero and Romano aren't reporting it?
They aren't the be all and end all of transfer information. We have no idea whats going on

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

I wouldn't say *no* bargaining power, he has certainly lost a considerable bargaining chip however.

They have and probably still are asking him to leave for the reasons you mention here, but I imagine some agreement that is satisfactory to both parties will be met in the days ahead.

FDJ can simply keep saying no to their demands and they can't force him out, Bogarde done the same with Chelsea years ago. I am fairly certain Phil Jones has done it to United at least once in recent years, if not twice, refusing to leave to another club on lower wages.

Oh absolutely. FDJ can, if he wants to, continue at Barca on his current contract. As far as I can tell, Barca would have no legal recourse to prevent that from happening. I guess my point would be that, from Barca's point of view, paying him the 17 million he's owed now appears to be a much more attractive option than just having him stay for the next four years on the same salary.

It could be that there is some agreement to be made between the two clubs that works out financially for Barca and also allows De Jong to stay with the club but right now, it seems to me that Barca's best option would be to pay him what he wants in deferred wages. At that stage we would find out once and for all whether De Jong really is completely opposed to a move, or whether it was the deferred salary holding the deal up this entire time.

 

[croadyman]

Why? Do you think all transfer business stops when clubs are on tour? Are we not living in the age of e-mails and phonecalls?
Things don't stop because a club is on tour. Agents can still work with directors and the sorts

Just going by what's been the case most summers

 

[Adisa]

Barca continuing to spend money, without actually having sold De Jong.

How does that work?

They can sign but can't register.

 

[croadyman]

Again, how do you know he and his agent aren't pushing to get it sorted? Because Romero and Romano aren't reporting it?
They aren't the be all and end all of transfer information. We have no idea whats going on

Come on someone would know if that's the case

 

[Keefy18]

Fair enough if that happens then surely we’ll move onto another target. But my view is that to be going this long - we’ve had some assurances from the players’ side.

Just to touch on another point: even if Barcelona can register the new signings I don’t believe this would be off as they’ve been pretty public about the fact that they want to replace him with Bernardo Silva.

Yes, it would make them less desperate to sell him but think Xavi wants Bernardo in to complete his overhaul.

Some journo's have Neves as our next go to.

Wolves will no doubt make life hard for us on this transfer also, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as this FDJ saga! We'll end up over paying for Neves though because of this idiotic situation we've involved ourselves in though.

Honestly my concern is if Silva goes to Barca, City might try get FDJ.

We`ve had disagreements but I`ll be the first to admit you were right about this deal likely not happening and him flat out not wanting us and people here will have to slowly come to terms with that.
They also need to see that FDJ is top draw quality but not the only midfielder that can improve us and that its fine if we walk away now or latest end of the month while we have time to sign a plan B
Like you said the snobbery towards Neves is silly. Unlike FDJ he`ll push to come here, Wolves will sell because this is their last chance to secure a big bag and he`ll give his all here. His technical ability isn`t out of question or willingness to put in a shift or get his feet stuck in. He lacks in press resistance but playing him next to Fred/someone of that ilk plus a more possession based system easily covers up that weakness

McFred wouldn't get games for most any other top 10 PL side. Maybe some relegation battlers.
Fred has poor passing, Scott the absolute worst football brain for positioning / movement in recent memory for a CM.

Neves isn't perfect by any means but it'd be an improvement on them both. Hell put him beside Fred with Eriksen and its better, also have Donny and Iqbal as fallback options to mix it up.

 

[glazed]

Honestly, I've looked at this "going on tour" revelation from multiple angles and I struggle to see how it impacts this transfer in any way. Why are people so concerned about it?

It matters because the only way Barca get rid of FdJ against his wishes is by freezing him out of football, Bale style. And if Xavi isn't willing to do that then he has no reason to go since it's quite clear he would rather not. So taking him on tour is a signal that he won't be frozen out.

That said it's not definitive. This is all about money at the end of the day. And we can't see the spreadsheets so we are left guessing.

 

[Keefy18]

They can sign but can't register.

Shared earlier in the thread

 

[Brownie85]

Come on someone would know if that's the case

Would we though? We don't have running commentary of everything thats being done. As soon as a big breakthrough is achieved, we'd know about it and it'd be reported.
All the little things won't be reported because theres nothing really to say. It's back and forth crap until something is agreed on

 

[Escobar]

Barca continuing to spend money, without actually having sold De Jong.

How does that work?

I explained it 3 days ago, the new levers give a new ratio regarding the salary cap. Therefore, they dont need to sell

 

[Cypriot]

Some journo's have Neves as our next go to.

Wolves will no doubt make life hard for us on this transfer also, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as this FDJ saga! We'll end up over paying for Neves though because of this idiotic situation we've involved ourselves in though.

Honestly my concern is if Silva goes to Barca, City might try get FDJ.

That's crossed my mind also. It'd be an easy deal to get done as they could probably do a straight swap? Market value of both players is about the same.

However, being linked to FDJ and signing Neves would be a real kick in the teeth. Whilst I would have loved Neves this time last year, it's a step down from FDJ.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Shared earlier in the thread

Another point to consider is that Barca by all accounts want to keep spending after Raphinha and Lewandowski. It could be that they can register those two without doing anything about De Jong but things become more complicated if they want to add Kounde and Bernardo Silva into the mix.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Come on someone would know if that's the case

They will only know if the agent or the clubs involved give them the info. Transfer deals are actually confidential as there are legal clauses to deal with. Sometimes to push the deal to their way, agents and clubs will release certain info which these transfer trackers ride on and let you guys see.

FDJ's situation has something to do with his existing legal contract. It will take a while as Barcelona is trying to force FDJ out but FDJ wants to ensure his contract is properly handled.